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  #101  
Old 02-22-2009, 02:47 PM
AngryAtCreative AngryAtCreative is offline
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Angry ZEN XTRA last product

I just had my 40GB ZEN XTRA borked by the firware update which by all appearances serves only this function (borking your player). I'm throughly unimpressed with Creative's ability to manage the software on the player and prevent this point of no return situation. If their quality of coding wasn't absolutely substandard in every way, then there wouldn't be little unremovable bits of Creative software all over my windows installation and registry that are unremovable. If their software design philosophy weren't that of a bully or needy girlfriend, meaning that they assume you absolutely need them and their software so you must want to install tons and tons of suites just to get some drivers working, then there wouldn't have been any software to uninstall to leave the little unremovable bits behind.

I have been a Creative product owner and enthusiast for over 10 years. I bought my ZEN Xtra when I had the option of choosing an iPod. I was confident that I wouldn't be dissappointed in Creative.

I will not be purchasing another Creative player or soundcard. There is no number of features which can be offered that could compensate for flaws such as this in the user support. Uninstall Service Pack 3 completely? Revert Windows Media Player? These aren't even Creative products that I'm changing now in order to make your peice of hardware function. Nevermind that every other peice of software will likely break when I uninstall SP 3. Go download a registry cleaner and get to work? Are you kidding me? I don't go do major surgery, instead I don't install crappy software that I know is going to leave dropping all over my computer.

Why doesn't the firmware completely load itself onto the product before flashing begins so that any stoppage of the process is completely recoverable? Why isn't there a Recovery Mode tool that is meant to talk to a player that is locked in the Recovery Mode only predicament?
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  #102  
Old 02-24-2009, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryAtCreative View Post
I just had my 40GB ZEN XTRA borked by the firware update which by all appearances serves only this function (borking your player).
Sorry to hear. It has been known to happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryAtCreative View Post
If their quality of coding wasn't absolutely substandard in every way, then there wouldn't be little unremovable bits of Creative software all over my windows installation and registry that are unremovable. If their software design philosophy weren't that of a bully or needy girlfriend, meaning that they assume you absolutely need them and their software so you must want to install tons and tons of suites just to get some drivers working, then there wouldn't have been any software to uninstall to leave the little unremovable bits behind.
If using the PFS firmware, no Creative software/drivers are needed at all, but then again, upgrading to the PFS firmware is probably how the Zen was "borked", wasn't it?.

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Originally Posted by AngryAtCreative View Post
I bought my ZEN Xtra when I had the option of choosing an iPod.
What does this have to do with an iPod? There are many, many other brands out there as well. All brands/players can have problems.

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Originally Posted by AngryAtCreative View Post
Uninstall Service Pack 3 completely? Revert Windows Media Player? These aren't even Creative products that I'm changing now in order to make your peice of hardware function.
No, but what do you expect? The Zen does work without ever connecting it to a computer or Operating System. You just are trying to interface your device with and operating system so that you can access the device in some way. Microsoft is as much to blame here as any device manufacture.

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Nevermind that every other peice of software will likely break when I uninstall SP 3.
Not true really. You will most likely have more issues with software after installing a Service Pack more so then uninstalling one.

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Originally Posted by AngryAtCreative View Post
Why isn't there a Recovery Mode tool that is meant to talk to a player that is locked in the Recovery Mode only predicament?
There is. Any downloaded firmware application will do so as well as Creative's Recovery Tool program. The Zen is designed to be fully detectable the same way in Recovery Mode as when booted into the firmware.

I am sorry to hear about your frustration. However, instead of making your first post here as an opportunity to slam and place blame on others or circumstances you don't fully comprehend, you could actually take the chance to describe your problem and maybe request some assistance from members here that may be productive for you and your situation. After all, we all know that Creative's support can be severely lacking at times.

Now that your rant is out of the way, do you want to take the time to do just this? What exactly is the problem you are having? How did you come to the conclusion that your Zen is "borked" and that the firmware update is the cause? What exactly happened? If your Zen is capable of booting into Recovery Mode still, it is by no means "borked".
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  #103  
Old 02-24-2009, 11:20 AM
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coachop94 coachop94 is offline
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Bobby, I don't know about the other members but,I for one appreciate your patience. I'm sure that others do also
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  #104  
Old 02-24-2009, 12:20 PM
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Bobby, I don't know about the other members but,I for one appreciate your patience. I'm sure that others do also
Thank you coachop! I try, anyway.
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  #105  
Old 02-26-2009, 11:07 AM
RUMBLE RUMBLE is offline
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Default Most Software...

It seems most software installed these days leaves a footprint of some kind behind. iTunes from what I've seen wants to take over your whole system. Well perhaps not your system but at least your media library. Which is why I will never own an iPod, iPhone, or any other thing that Apple has seemed to convince the masses they need. How many people got in line to buy an iPhone when it came out?

Apple did make a HD based player a while back, quite a while back actually but had too many issues with the player so they quit making them.

So Creative's support is lacking? So is SkullCandy's. I have a SkullCandy player that is locked. Not only can't I get it unlocked, tech support seems to be non-exsistent for the player. At least it can be used as a flash drive...

Anything that is mass produced can have issues. I bought a new laptop a few weeks ago. It lasted 9 days and maybe 20 hours of use before the video card went out on it. Well at least I got my money back for it.

As for my Jukebox? I needed the HD for a laptop so it has been disassembled again. It is now waiting for a new HD but I am unsure of what size I want to put into it. At least I'll find out if my, "How to" on how to flash the FW on the Jukebox was any good.
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  #106  
Old 02-27-2009, 09:05 AM
Semirhage Semirhage is offline
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Originally Posted by BobbyRS View Post
There is. Any downloaded firmware application will do so as well as Creative's Recovery Tool program. The Zen is designed to be fully detectable the same way in Recovery Mode as when booted into the firmware.
Except the Recovery Tool program doesn't see my Zen either.
I've read this entire thread, I've followed all the suggestions 10 times -- but nothing I do will allow me to complete a firmware update on my Zen Xtra. My computer sees it, but Creative does not. The auto update doesnt, the manual update doesn't, the repair tool doesn't. I feel as though my MP3 player has been dropped into an abyss and can not be fixed. I've tried multiple computers, I've uninstalled SP3 (even though I find that ridiculous, SP3 has been out long enough the product should work with it -- and yes, removing SP3 DID cause huge issues with other things on my system.) Expecting me to make major changes to my operating system just to get an MP3 player to work is ridiculous.

I'm not sure that the issue has anything to do with iPod directly -- but I will say it has me really appreciating my iPod. I've never had this type of trouble with ANY Apple device.

At this point, I see no option but to sell my Zen on Ebay as a laptop hd or doorstop. If anyone has any previously un-mentioned suggestions for getting a firmware update on a Zen Xtra stuck in Recovery Mode, I'd love to hear them.

. . . at any rate. I'm having the same problem as AngryatCreative -- and not much happier about it. Recovery Tool doens't work because it doesn't see the Zen. The firmware update can't see the zen. Only my computer can see the Zen. I've uninstalled SP3 (causing serious issues with other programs) and that still hasnt' fixed the problem. I fail to see how asking me to make a significant change to my operating system is a valid suggestion anyway --

Yes, electronic items have problems -- but in all the firmware updates I've done in my life, on MP3 players, motherboards, other computer components -- I've never been in a situation where the firmware update destroys my device to this level. I've tried every solution posted in this thread numerous times -- if anyone has any previously unmentioned suggestion for getting the firmware update to see my recovery mode Zen, I'd be happy to hear them.

Last edited by BobbyRS; 02-27-2009 at 09:47 AM.
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  #107  
Old 02-27-2009, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Semirhage View Post
Except the Recovery Tool program doesn't see my Zen either.
I've read this entire thread, I've followed all the suggestions 10 times -- but nothing I do will allow me to complete a firmware update on my Zen Xtra. My computer sees it, but Creative does not. The auto update doesnt, the manual update doesn't, the repair tool doesn't.
How's the driver showing in Device Manager; what is it listed as?

Have you tried uninstalling/reinstalling the driver?

What version of WMP is installed?

Have you tried uninstalling to WMP10, including the WMP11 runtimes?

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Originally Posted by Semirhage View Post
and yes, removing SP3 DID cause huge issues with other things on my system.)
I never said it couldn't, just that usually you don't and the issues are usually with installing it and other unsupported programs.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage View Post
Expecting me to make major changes to my operating system just to get an MP3 player to work is ridiculous.
Yeah, you can blame Microsoft for this and Creative for deciding to use Microsofts platform. MTP can either work great or awful really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Semirhage View Post
. . . at any rate. I'm having the same problem as AngryatCreative -- and not much happier about it. Recovery Tool doens't work because it doesn't see the Zen. The firmware update can't see the zen. Only my computer can see the Zen. I've uninstalled SP3 (causing serious issues with other programs) and that still hasnt' fixed the problem. I fail to see how asking me to make a significant change to my operating system is a valid suggestion anyway --
It is valid because MTP is not native to WinXP and the Windows Media Framework MTP uses is embedded into Windows once installed (same old story for MS).

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Originally Posted by Semirhage View Post
I've never been in a situation where the firmware update destroys my device to this level.
It doesn't sound like your ZVM is destroyed, just without firmware. As well as the issue doesn't sound like it is with the ZVM directly, but with Windows/software.
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  #108  
Old 02-27-2009, 11:32 AM
Semirhage Semirhage is offline
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In the device manager it appears as a Creative Zen Xtra
I have rolled back to WMP10, including the runtime
I have uninstalled and reinstalled the driver, many times.
I have tried every suggestion made in this thread no fewer than 5 times on FOUR different computers (all rolled back to WMP10)

It does feel like it is destroyed, since i can't get firmware on there and am stuck in recovery mode . . .
Maybe the isssue is a Microsoft problem as you say -- but since the player only supports Windows, and since the player worked fine prior to trying this firmware update, I'm gonna say this is Creative's fault for putting out a bad firmware update.

Last edited by Semirhage; 02-27-2009 at 12:34 PM. Reason: to add more information
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  #109  
Old 02-27-2009, 08:36 PM
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Which firmware exactly; the PlaysForSure firmware? Does the Zen show up under Portable Devices in Device Manager? You may want to have a look at the Zen FAQ under the Troubleshooting section to see if there is anything in it that may help.
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  #110  
Old 02-28-2009, 07:23 AM
Semirhage Semirhage is offline
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The PlayforSure update is the one I was trying to get on -=- but I"ve also tried firmware updates further back, and none of them see the Zen. It is showing up under portable devices. I searched the Troubleshooting faq before posting, I haven't found anything that can get my Zen out of recovery mode.
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  #111  
Old 02-28-2009, 07:35 AM
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Once you upgrade to the PFS firmware, you cannot go back. You can only install a PFS firmware at that point.
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  #112  
Old 03-15-2009, 04:55 PM
sweeperpan sweeperpan is offline
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Hi guys,

I am having the same problems with the plays for sure firmware upgrade and have been going through the remedies detailed on this site, but without success.

I have deleted all the creative software from my computer, including the creative folder in programme files, rolled back to WMP 10, reinstalled the driver (i have also tried all this without installing the driver), rebooted my pc, cleaned up, formatted the player and rebooted it and plugged it in, then downloaded the firmware, and hit reload OS on the zen and hit the English language button on the firmware. when i do this nothing happens for a couple of minutes, then a dialogue box tells me that my device is not connected.

When i plug the zen a box appears seeming to give me the option of synching with WMP, but nothing happens and when i go into WMP it doesn't show up as having a device to synch to. In my toolbar it shows as an MTP Media Player, and in device manager as a Nomad Jukebox Zen Xtra, under portable devices, but if i try to go into My Computer it just searches and shows nothing up at all.

Anybody got any ideas? i have Windows XP home edition with Service Pack 3, the driver i have been using is JB3MV2_PCWDRV_US_2_01_00(2).EXE
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  #113  
Old 03-15-2009, 05:08 PM
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When you connect & the autoplay window opens are you ignoring that or closing it?? I do NOT close it. I just ignore it & the file runs. I don't have Service Pack 3 There is a thread here where the user(bismark) solved his issue trying to load the firmware on a Touch. http://forums.creative.com/creativel...225067#M225067
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Last edited by coachop94; 03-15-2009 at 05:12 PM. Reason: more info
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  #114  
Old 03-15-2009, 05:09 PM
sweeperpan sweeperpan is offline
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More info: i have also tried to roll back to WMP 9, and uninstall Service Pack 3, but i am not very computer literate and haven't been able to do either of these things.
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  #115  
Old 03-15-2009, 06:50 PM
sweeperpan sweeperpan is offline
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Hi, i have managed to get rid of service pack 3 and install 2, i have removed Microsoft User-Mode Driver Framework Feature Pack 1.0 and i have tried updating the firmware with the autoplay box open, still no luck....
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  #116  
Old 03-16-2009, 12:12 PM
sweeperpan sweeperpan is offline
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YES!!

Finally got the stupid thing working!

After spending hours and hours last night, fiddling with my registry, installing and uninstalling the zen in device manager, disabling programmes, USB buses etc i tried it today in my machine at work while my boss wasn't looking and finally got it working after some fiddling- i have XP here as well but it let me rollback to WMP 9- with this installed i couldn't get the device recognised with the driver or otherwise, i installed WMP10 and went through the whole process again, no joy but when i tried it without the Creative drivers installed and with WMP open when i connected the player, the firmware update worked after giving me an error message to close WMP.

So i finally have a working device, just have to go and reinstate my system and presumably install drivers on my home machine. And of course i have lost all the music that was on there but it is all sitting on my hard drive at home so no huge loss.

So happy that i don't have to buy an ipod!
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  #117  
Old 03-16-2009, 01:38 PM
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Great, with the new PFS firmware you can load your music with WMP11. You don't have to have the Creative software.
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  #118  
Old 03-16-2009, 05:58 PM
sweeperpan sweeperpan is offline
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Spoke too soon!

the player was syncing up fine to my work machine, but at home it still won't work- in device manager it shows up as an MTP device. with WMP 10 it is under windows portable devices, with WMP 11 it is under portable devices. i have tried resetting the usb permissions but it is not recognized either under my computer or by WMP or by any of the creative software when i try to install that. i have also tried reinstalling drivers etc, rolling back my WMP and service pack, i have had it in recovery mode and cleaned up and reformatted it.

totally, totally fed up!
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  #119  
Old 03-16-2009, 06:44 PM
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Well you now know it is a computer issue & not the player. Are you installing the WMP11 for XP?? Apparently it is not the same as the one for Vista. I would uninstall all the creative software. Here is the link for WMP11 for XP http://www.microsoft.com/windows/win...1/default.aspx
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  #120  
Old 03-17-2009, 04:27 AM
sweeperpan sweeperpan is offline
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Fixed it, finally. Figured it must be a problem with the driver so i uninstalled every USB bus from device manager, rebooted and unplugged all the USB cables then plugged them back in and it installed and synch'd to WMP 11 straight away. Can't help wondering if this was why the original fix didn't seem to work on my own PC.

So, to anyone else who has similar problems after a failed PFS firmware install- go through all the steps at the start of this thread and if it still doesn't work, uninstall the USB bus in device manager like i did.

Thanks guys
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