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  #1  
Old 03-15-2013, 12:10 AM
MattMc3 MattMc3 is offline
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Default Clip+ Incorrect "Folder" Sorting & Play Order

I have a stock 4GB Clip+ (Version V01.02.15A) that isn't behaving as I think it should. I have 13 albums on this Clip+ plus two folders for various "Singles", for a total of 15 folders. The 13 full albums all play properly. The two folders of Singles are where my problems are at.

One of the Singles folders is called "Singles" which contains 26 files. The second folder is called "Singles - Piano Covers" which contains 5 files. I have manually edited all of the ID3 tags with MP3Tag and the tags show up properly on my PC and on the Clip+ when being played. These are my two problems:

Problem 1) If I view the contents of my Clip+ in "Folder" mode, only 14 directories show up: The 13 full albums and a folder called "Singles". The folder called "Singles - Piano Covers" doesn't show up. Inside the folder called "Singles", there are 31 files (the 26 files from "Singles" and the 5 files from "Singles - Piano Covers").

- Question 1: Why doesn't the folder "Singles - Piano Covers" show up in Folder mode?
- Question 2: Why do the 5 files from the folder "Singles - Piano Covers" show up in the "Singles" folder.

Before I go onto my second problem, this is how I tag my "Single" MP3's:

For the "Singles"
- ID3 Title: Artist - Song Title
- ID3 Artist: "Various Artists"
- ID3 Album: "Singles"
- ID3 Track Number: Blank

For the "Singles - Piano Covers"
- ID3 Title: Artist - Song Title
- ID3 Artist: "Various Artists"
- ID3 Album: "Singles - Piano Covers"
- ID3 Track Number: Blank

Problem 2) If I try to play my singles by selecting the artist "Various Artists", I can choose from the albums "Singles" and "Singles - Piano Covers" (which is correct). If I choose the album "Singles", the 26 files show up (which is correct). When I actually play the files, they are played in the exact same order every time (good), but they are not being played alphabetically or in any order that makes sense to me (bad). The "Shuffle" option is turned off. Normally I would expect the tracks to be played based on the ID3 Track Number tag, but since this is a folder of singles, none of the files have ID3 Track Number tags. I would then expect that the files would be played in order of the ID3 Title, or at least in order by filename. But they are not.

- Question 3: If a group of MP3's in the same folder have the same ID3 Artist, the same ID3 Album, and the ID3 Track Number's are blank, what does the Clip+ use to determine the order that files are played back?

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And just an FYI, my Sony Walkman has the identical Singles and Piano Covers on it and it sorts and plays them correctly by folder or ID3. My problem is just on the Clip+.

Sorry for the novella. Thanks, Matt.
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  #2  
Old 03-15-2013, 09:41 AM
skip252 skip252 is offline
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If the Clip displays the files the way you want in one view and not another then more likely than not it's a tagging issue. You know how to use MP3Tag so I'd try numbering the files that aren't and see if that helps.

You may not prefer doing it that way but if you want to use folder based browsing you may not have a choice. AFAIK there's no way to make a Clip read it's database or display information differently than what's contained in the tags.
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  #3  
Old 03-15-2013, 11:22 AM
dave61430 dave61430 is offline
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If you leave the track field blank, I'm not sure what order they play in. I suspect they play in the order stored in the file system. Make a note of the order the clip wants to play them by stepping through the tracks manually without actually playing them (you don't have to do the whole directory although 26 isn't too much).
Now hook up the clip to your computer, bring up a command (dos) prompt), navigate to the directory and issue the dos 'dir' command. Without any switches this will display the files as physically stored in the directory.
Windows explorer will sort any way which way and you can select by clicking on a column heading. Most of the time nobody cares. If you start off with an empty directories and add files one by one, they will be stored in that order. The whole point of track#'s is to avoid this type of problem, quite a serious one for symphonic and operatic lovers.
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  #4  
Old 03-17-2013, 04:37 PM
MattMc3 MattMc3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skip252
You know how to use MP3Tag so I'd try numbering the files that aren't and see if that helps.
That fixes the problem, but I'm really trying to avoid having to renumber my all of my singles' ID3 Track Numbers every time I add a new single into that folder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave61430
If you leave the track field blank, I'm not sure what order they play in.
Me either. I was hoping it would use the ID3 Title field next, but it doesn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave61430
I suspect they play in the order stored in the file system.
Bingo! That's it. Thanks. The order that they are playing in is the order that they were written into the File Allocation Table (FAT). I found a utility that sorts and rewrites the FAT, and now all of the singles play back in the correct (alphabetical) order even without ID3 Track Numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave61430
The whole point of track#'s is to avoid this type of problem...
For normal "full" albums, I agree. But for a folder of non-related MP3's, I don't think it should be necessary to have ID3 Track Numbers. In fact, even you don't have any ID3 info, it would be nice if the Clip defaulted to playing the files in alphabetical order by filename.

I guess my solution will be to rewrite the FAT whenever I add any singles to the Clip. That's easier than updating all of the singles with the correct ID3 Track Number fields every time a new one is added.

Thanks again, Matt
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  #5  
Old 03-18-2013, 01:57 PM
dave61430 dave61430 is offline
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I downloaded Stephen's batch file sortfolder.zip from here:
http://www.murraymoffatt.com/software-problem-0010.html

Haven't tried it yet, but it should work on any flavor on windows so far. It's best not to mess with the file system on a lower level if can be avoided.
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