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  #1  
Old 07-16-2012, 05:45 PM
burlingtonbill burlingtonbill is offline
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Default Clip+ gets two of everything

I'm a newbie (actually fairly old, agewise) who sees every track I'm moving from my music library in the Win7 desktop to the Clip. They are in Ogg; I'm using Winamp to rip and file-manage. Anyone else using a Clip+ with Ogg files and had this problem?
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  #2  
Old 07-16-2012, 06:23 PM
Mikerman Mikerman is offline
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I may not be following, but are you saying that when you transfer files to your Clip+, you are seeing 2 of each file on the player?

If so, are you sure that there are 2 of each file on your Clip+? Or is it possible that you are seeing multiple listings for the same file (such as, one listing under the titles section of the database, and a separate listing under Folders)? If so, that is normal--just giving you multiple ways to access your music.

You can check this out by connecting your player to your computer and using Windows Explorer or similar to open up the Clip+ drive and see what is there.
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Old 07-16-2012, 08:51 PM
burlingtonbill burlingtonbill is offline
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Thanks Mikerman for listening :-)
Yes, I am actually having two separate and complete files of the same song written at the time it is dragged from the Winamp library into the Clip. I can play either file from the Clip while it is still connected to the computer and I am playing it from the Clip. I'm dragging to the 32MB uSD card memory, not the internal 4GB memory. (But it does same thing if putting it into the 4GB--I've tested that.
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Old 07-17-2012, 02:24 AM
dgb52 dgb52 is offline
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What if you copied the songs into a different folder on your computer to see if it does the same thing.

Maybe its something caused by winamp?
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Old 07-17-2012, 04:26 AM
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Try deleting everything off your player, check to make sure you are in MSC mode, connect to PC, now drag & drop without winamp. I’m guessing it could be something caused from a combination of mtp mode, auto-detect and winamp (not sure about the last as I never had issues with winamp).
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:41 AM
burlingtonbill burlingtonbill is offline
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I thought initially it might be a problem with winamp somehow; have posoted this problem also on winamp forum, so far no takers.

I tried switching to MSC-only mode before I posted initially - what happened was I got error messages and Clip refused to recognize the
file being brought over. (What is the default these players in, brand-new, Auto Detect or MTP? I don't remember, but after the trial with MSC I put it back in Auto.)


I haven't tried dragging directly from the raw computer files, bypassing winamp. I'll try that.
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burlingtonbill View Post
... What is the default these players in, brand-new, Auto Detect or MTP? I don't remember, but after the trial with MSC I put it back in Auto. ...
IIRC the player comes in auto-detect but IMHO that just fudges things up and it normally forces it to connect in MTP. Here's what I would try:
  • Connect in MTP mode and delete all the files on the player via PC
  • Disconnect, change to MSC mode and delete the same
  • Make sure you are in MSC mode, connect and start over (a format can do all the deleting if you wish)
  • Not really needed but you could re-firmware to the newest version if you wish
  • Now connected in MSC mode, (don't open winamp) go to where the files reside via window explorer and drag & drop from windows explorer directly to the on-board drive (music folder) or to the cards drive letter (which ever one you wish to load)
  • Disconnect player and allow it to refresh the db and let us know if that worked

I can't recall the issue I had with winamp a few years back but I fixed it at that time. It duplicated every song for me but not two files in the folder they were housed. What it did is created two different paths to the files and I could see duplicates within winamp, not on player or music folder.
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  #8  
Old 07-17-2012, 12:07 PM
Mikerman Mikerman is offline
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It sounds like (I'm guessing) a Winamp issue.

Curious: what happens if you just copy and paste from your computer to the Clip (not using Winamp)?
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Old 07-17-2012, 01:34 PM
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Maybe you're also dragging playlist files (m3u) ?

Because maybe winamp cleverly gets the tracks in the playlist and copys them over as well. Not sure though, I don't use winamp anymore.
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  #10  
Old 07-18-2012, 07:13 PM
burlingtonbill burlingtonbill is offline
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Default Clip+ gets two of everything

It appears that "looking" at what's on the Clip "thru the lens of winamp" is the problem. I confirmed that there is only actual file being written, for each song, on the clip, and the total memory space consumed verifies that. Yet winamp "shows" 2 of everything, with double the total memory consumed. It looks like there is indeed a problem with winamp.

Per the winamp forum, still no response. Either this issue isn't sexy enough to warrant a response, or hardly anyone looks at or uses that forum (or the program?) any more. It's what we started out using 5 years ago with a different app.

To Brett_val: what program are you using in place of winamp to manage your files? I haven't even begun to create playlists, as long as I'm having this fundamental issue.
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  #11  
Old 07-18-2012, 08:16 PM
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I'd recommend taking a look at MusicBee. I mostly use drag and drop in MSC or foobar2000 to manage my players but when I have tried MusicBee to sync in MTP it's worked well.

MusicBee is freeware (Donations happily accepted!) and still in active development with a vigorous forum. I don't participate there but when I stop by for the frequent updates MusicBee receives it doesn't seem likely a question like yours would be ignored for 5 days.

Are you aware that using Ogg Vorbis files on your Clip+ using the sandisk firmware will cut your battery life significantly? I've seen credible reports of up to 40% reduction in battery life due to the vorbis decoder not being optimized as well as the mp3 decoder.

The reduction in battery life isn't a limitation of the codec or the hardware. I've done battery benchmark test with Rockbox with it's much better optimized vorbis decoder and have had run times over 16 hours.
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Old 07-19-2012, 09:09 AM
burlingtonbill burlingtonbill is offline
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As crazy as it sounds, I'll be using the Clip in primarily a fixed position, powered thru a wallwart-USB cable connection, so battery life shouldn't be an issue. We went to Ogg Vorbis for a better sound quality / storage space compromise than basic mp3. I had another person working with me at that time who was quite familiar with the various codec possibilities. (Unfortunately Rockbox wasn't on the table at that time.) Now that I have nearly 3000 sound files, and more coming, I'd hate to have to re-rip everything into something else.

I have a couple of 2G ipods that have been rockboxed. Before that I used a Rio Karma. (I've always thought the Karma sounded a little better, but the ipods are everywhere and cheap.) The RB-2G's sound OK, but took quite a bit of effort to get going and seem more difficult to work with; hence the upgrade to Clips - not to mention cost and size. I guess I wouldn't rule out Rockbox, but unless there are other significant advantages for this app, I probably won't go that direction right now.

I will look into MusicBee. Sounds like a great suggestion! Thanks!
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  #13  
Old 07-19-2012, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burlingtonbill View Post
I have a couple of 2G ipods that have been rockboxed. Before that I used a Rio Karma. (I've always thought the Karma sounded a little better, but the ipods are everywhere and cheap.)
Cheap?

Quality-wise maybe, but definitely not price-wise.
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Old 07-19-2012, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burlingtonbill View Post
To Brett_val: what program are you using in place of winamp to manage your files? I haven't even begun to create playlists, as long as I'm having this fundamental issue.
For managing I just use the file browser, which is Windows Explorer in most cases, and MP3Tag to edit the tags if needed for a portable player. I like to keep things simple and the file browser is just that.
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Old 07-19-2012, 05:34 PM
skip252 skip252 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burlingtonbill View Post
As crazy as it sounds, I'll be using the Clip in primarily a fixed position, powered thru a wallwart-USB cable connection, so battery life shouldn't be an issue. We went to Ogg Vorbis for a better sound quality / storage space compromise than basic mp3. I had another person working with me at that time who was quite familiar with the various codec possibilities. (Unfortunately Rockbox wasn't on the table at that time.) Now that I have nearly 3000 sound files, and more coming, I'd hate to have to re-rip everything into something else.
Doesn't sound crazy to me. The primary source for one of my home audio systems is a 8 GB V2 Clip that only gets about 6 hrs. battery life now. When the battery life got to be too short for a full days use I connected the headphone out to the AUX in of a system that sounded great until the CD changer broke. It could only play through the radio and a really poor cassette tape drive after that.

Once I hooked up the Clip I had much more capacity than the 3 discs it held before and I can't tell a sound quality difference between the old CD drive and the Clips output. I've surprised more than a few people when they saw what was cranking out the tunes was the size of a book of matches.

While I use mostly -V2 mp3 I'm aware of how well aoTuV ogg vorbis files can perform at low bitrates/quality settings. I can, at times, ABX the difference between a q3.0 (~ 112 kbps) ogg vorbis file and the lossless source, but not consistently. Certainly not enough where using that setting for my Rockboxed players is a concern. The sound quality in Rockbox and the sandisk firmware is the same so I could see where using vorbis files in a situation where battery life isn't an issue would let you put a LOT more music in the same space.
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Old 07-21-2012, 07:23 PM
burlingtonbill burlingtonbill is offline
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Test drove the MusicBee program. I know this may sound dumb since I'm at the bottom of the pile, geek-wise. But it seems primitive in that you can't auto-transfer files into the Clip's external memory. And when transferring manually, it doesn't organize into albums and artists, at least where I can see. And further, how do you manually transfer a playlist? (I should probably be asking these Q's on the MusicBee forum?)

Anybody else using another media manager besides WMP, Winamp and MusicBee that they REALLY like and trust, that would work with vorbis files? Someone earlier suggested Foobar2000....think I'll look at it.

My comment about 2nd-gen ipods being everywhere and cheap meant compared to newer gen units and used Rio Karmas. Until just a few days ago I had no idea a Clip+ could be had for under $30. Don't get me wrong, I feel quite at home on this "Anything But Ipod" forum. I detest the chokehold the Apple contingent has on the whole marketplace!
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Old 07-22-2012, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burlingtonbill
To Brett_val: what program are you using in place of winamp to manage your files? I haven't even begun to create playlists, as long as I'm having this fundamental issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett_val View Post
For managing I just use the file browser, which is Windows Explorer in most cases, and MP3Tag to edit the tags if needed for a portable player. I like to keep things simple and the file browser is just that.
I agree with Brett_val. Nothing better . . . or simpler. Although I do use Winamp for playlists.
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  #18  
Old 07-22-2012, 07:45 PM
burlingtonbill burlingtonbill is offline
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Per WalkGood:

1.Connect in MTP mode and delete all the files on the player via PC
2.Disconnect, change to MSC mode and delete the same
3.Make sure you are in MSC mode, connect and start over (a format can do all the deleting if you wish)
4.Not really needed but you could re-firmware to the newest version if you wish
5. Now connected in MSC mode, (don't open winamp) go to where the files reside via window explorer and drag & drop from windows explorer directly to the on-board drive (music folder) or to the cards drive letter (which ever one you wish to load)
6. Disconnect player and allow it to refresh the db and let us know if that worked.
----------------------------
OK, we tried this. After performing thru Step 5, when attempting to copy the files in via MSC, it said "some files are in an incompatible format." "Some" actually meant ALL. We were unable to transfer anything.

Foobar2000 didn't seem to have any export capability, which sort of defeats the purpose.

I guess we will attempt to slog thru and use Winamp.

Last edited by burlingtonbill; 07-22-2012 at 07:49 PM. Reason: run on sentence
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  #19  
Old 07-23-2012, 10:35 AM
dave61430 dave61430 is offline
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If you can't transfer files using windows explorer, something is seriously wrong. All windows does is create the destination directory and copies files. Can you open files in explorer?
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