Cowon J3 or Sansa Clip+?

[BRD4]

Hello
I'm about to buy a new player and the two players I'm considering are Cowon J3 and Sansa Clip+.
The fact is that I don't know which one has a better sound quality with more clarity and detail. I know there is a big difference in their prices but the sound quality is the most important to me. I'd be using either one for listening to music/audio files, so the Cowon's capability to play video is not that important to me.
I'd be thankful if you share your opinions/experiences with me.

[WalkGood]

Buy both FTW

BTW if you volume match them, they should sound the same. The big difference is features and sound enhancement tools in most players but when it comes to these two. One is better suited for on the go, sports and short outings (Clip), while the other is better suited for longer use and trips ...

[FreeZ5]

BRD4....

You may already have some real good earphones, but I'll suggest buying the Clip and using the rest of the money for some better earphones.

Steve

[musichound]

To me the two players do not sound the same when the EQ is used. The J3's jet effects IMO sounds better than even Rockbox's parametric equalizer. However, if both are listened to without enhancements, there is no difference.

[WalkGood]

Originally Posted by FreeZ5

BRD4....

You may already have some real good earphones, but I'll suggest buying the Clip and using the rest of the money for some better earphones.

Good point Steve and add to that a 32GB microSD card ...

[Arty-Sho']

I own both. I could say my Cowon J3 replaced the Sansa Clip. The Sansa is really unpractical for managing different music folders (I don't know if just mine has the problem, but it puts strange names with lots of numbers on folders if you browse in folder mode. It is very unpractical). And the Sansa output impedance is too low to use my HiFi headphones (55Ohm), I think till 32 Ohms it should be fine. If you never use equalizers, the Sansa is fine. But I like the rock equalizer I had on my old Creative, and even more the one on my J3. I was very disappointed with Sansa because (just a personal opinion) the equalizers it offers are just horrible. And I really have the impression that the personnalized equalizer is a fake (just put one of the bars a little higher or lower from normal, you directly hear that the sound has become dull and flat).
But I wouldn't want to do some propaganda. The Sansa is still a great player, very small, good output power for its size, it plays FLAC. I still use it whenever I go joging.

[WalkGood]

^^ rockbox your sansa and I'm betting you'll like the EQ then, but I agree with you: on the OF which I never run, the EQ isn't good at all.

[Marvin the Martian]

Originally Posted by Arty-Sho'

I own both. I could say my Cowon J3 replaced the Sansa Clip. The Sansa is really unpractical for managing different music folders (I don't know if just mine has the problem, but it puts strange names with lots of numbers on folders if you browse in folder mode. It is very unpractical).

That can be fixed....may be due to your USB mode setting

Originally Posted by Arty-Sho'

And the Sansa output impedance is too low to use my HiFi headphones (55Ohm), I think till 32 Ohms it should be fine. If you never use equalizers, the Sansa is fine. But I like the rock equalizer I had on my old Creative, and even more the one on my J3. I was very disappointed with Sansa because (just a personal opinion) the equalizers it offers are just horrible. And I really have the impression that the personnalized equalizer is a fake (just put one of the bars a little higher or lower from normal, you directly hear that the sound has become dull and flat).

Rockbox is the answer....

Originally Posted by Arty-Sho'

But I wouldn't want to do some propaganda. The Sansa is still a great player, very small, good output power for its size, it plays FLAC. I still use it whenever I go joging.

[Enigmatic]

Originally Posted by Arty-Sho'

The Sansa is really unpractical for managing different music folders (I don't know if just mine has the problem, but it puts strange names with lots of numbers on folders if you browse in folder mode. It is very unpractical).

Sounds like you are using the Clip+ in MTP or Auto Detect mode. The extra characters appear when folder names are long. You might see an improvement if you switch to MSC.

And the Sansa output impedance is too low to use my HiFi headphones (55Ohm), I think till 32 Ohms it should be fine.

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/...-measured.html:

That's one of the big reasons headphone amps can improve the sound--they generally have lower output impedance.

Here the Clip+ also does amazingly well.

[dfkt]

Arty-Sho', you're mistaking output impedance for output power. Low output impedance is always a good thing, no matter what phone connected. Also, the phone's impedance (not the player's output impedance) is only half the story - it's their sensitivity that matters as well. Then again, there's more weirdness to it in some cases - for example, the Clip can drive the 300 Ohm/103dB (1Vrms) Sennheiser HD650 somewhat better than the 60 Ohm/101dB/mW Koss KSC 75, due to (presumable) impedance-matching.

[Arty-Sho']

Hmmm, yeah, "output power", that's what I wanted to say
Well... I just have to stop use words that I think I know the meaning.
I have the AKG K530, big pair of headphones (open... or half-open back, don't know) very small player, and at maximum volume, it's not loud at all. But usually, when you have a sansa, it's not for using it with this type of headphones.

(I hesitate to edit my earlier message, I don't want to create a space-time paradox with all the people that have quoted me)

[BRD4]

@FreeZ5: I've recently bought a Phonak Audeo 012 with grey filters.

[FreeZ5]

Originally Posted by BRD4

@FreeZ5: I've recently bought a Phonak Audeo 012 with grey filters.

And you're using them with ? and loving them?

Steve

[BRD4]

@WalkGood: So, considering features and sound enhancement and that I concentrate when I listen to music, which one has more clarity and better sound? I'm not going to play that much with EQ and such, though I guess the BBE of J3 is a great feature.
@FreeZ5: Yes, they are great, their clarity, detail, sound quality and also build quality. I'm happy with my purchase. They actually came with green filters. I purchased the grey filters seperately. Here is the question I asked about the earphones: http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum...ad.php?t=65480

[Enigmatic]

Originally Posted by BRD4

So, considering features and sound enhancement and that I concentrate when I listen to music, which one has more clarity and better sound? I'm not going to play that much with EQ and such, though I guess the BBE of J3 is a great feature.

Which one? Are you going to use signal processing or are you not going to use signal processing? Something else you should consider: http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/...-measured.html:

A high output impedance causes audible frequency response variations with many headphones (especially balanced armature types). The lower the output impedance, the less interaction there will be between the headphones and their source. That's one of the big reasons headphone amps can improve the sound--they generally have lower output impedance.

Here the Clip+ also does amazingly well.

[BRD4]

@Enigmatic: Thanks for the link, great information. And about signal processing, I might use a bit. So, which one is your suggestion? Sansa?

[WalkGood]

Originally Posted by BRD4

@WalkGood: So, considering features and sound enhancement and that I concentrate when I listen to music, which one has more clarity and better sound?

Volume matched without any enhancements I’d say most if not all would have a hard time telling two top tier players apart. For improvements in attributes like “clarity and better sound,” on top tier players I would say that headphones/IEMs will make the biggest difference. Since you’ve already stated that you have good IEMs and that you are happy with them it’s a decision you have to make. I would doubt you’ll be disappointed with either choice, but we all have different requirements ...

Originally Posted by BRD4

I'm not going to play that much with EQ and such, though I guess the BBE of J3 is a great feature. …

I’m confused, either you are or are not going to use sound enhancements (rhetorical question no need to answer)? I truly enjoy BBE and some of the other features included on Cowon’s JetEffect sound enhancements. That said, I also truly enjoy the parametric EQ on rockbox and the occasional crossfeed if needed. Good luck and let us know which way you decide and as I stated earlier, you can always get both FTW

[Enigmatic]

Originally Posted by BRD4

So, which one is your suggestion?

We need more information. http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum...97&postcount=1.

[BRD4]

@WalkGood: Since I haven't bought the player yet, I can't tell certainly whether I'm going to use sound enhancement features and EQ or not. But I guess I might use them a bit.
@Enigmatic: About the capacity, the more the better! I'll be mostly listening to FLAC, if I buy the Sansa, I think I need to buy SD card too. About the budget, of course Sansa is more budget-friendly but as I stated earlier, my priority is the sound quality and clarity. I'm not going to use it for working out and watching the video(the screen would be too small for videos I guess). If the battery life is not short, it's OK. The only things I'm not sure of are the sound enhancement features and EQ.

[FreeZ5]

Originally Posted by BRD4

@Enigmatic: About the capacity, the more the better! I'll be mostly listening to FLAC, if I buy the Sansa, I think I need to buy SD card too. About the budget, of course Sansa is more budget-friendly but as I stated earlier, my priority is the sound quality and clarity. I'm not going to use it for working out and watching the video(the screen would be too small for videos I guess). If the battery life is not short, it's OK. The only things I'm not sure of are the sound enhancement features and EQ.

BRD4:

You won't be watching video on a Clip regardless. The Clip original firmware has no sound enhancement features and the EQ is horrible. Once you put Rockbox on the Clip, the EQ improves a lot and many people feel that it is better than the J3.

Personally I have no interest in paying the price of the J3.

Steve