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Old 08-20-2011, 05:41 PM
RealX1 RealX1 is offline
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Default Trouble with EQ

I have a pair of shure 440's and even though they are closed they should have decent sound. The mids and highs are good with the j3 but I'm having the same problem with the low/low-mids that I did on my sansa fuze. I have to turn them down all the way to -12. Yes, -12 on both to prevent it muddying out the mids/highs. I had a pair of yamaha closed and it was the same thing. Is there a way to reduce the muddiness?
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Old 08-20-2011, 07:14 PM
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Nevermind, I figured it out. Its because they're closed headphones. As soon as I lift the pads off my ears a little the sound becomes clear. I will have to modify the pads to let the mud out.
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Old 08-20-2011, 07:46 PM
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Good thing you figured it out as far as frequnecy response go to the second eq bar switch the frequnecy to 200 hz knock it down about 5db(Just to start off). Play around with Narrow,Normal,Wide I usually do 3db wide as to much starts to sound unnatural and throws off tone.
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Old 08-20-2011, 10:37 PM
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K, thanks. I'm still having a problem. Even though the sound is less muddy now I can't get it to sound better than my sansa fuze no matter how I alter the settings and it doesn't sound that great. The sounds are not separated well or very clear either. I tried stereo, bbe, 3d, etc with no improvement. For cans do I need senn 555's or better to notice what people are talking about? I'm using FLAC etc btw.

Last edited by RealX1; 08-20-2011 at 10:46 PM.
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Old 08-20-2011, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by RealX1 View Post
Nevermind, I figured it out. Its because they're closed headphones. As soon as I lift the pads off my ears a little the sound becomes clear. I will have to modify the pads to let the mud out.
You really shouldn't need to do this. I have a pair of super bassy, not very expensive and obsolete closed Sennheisers that EQ brilliantly with the J3. Closed phones are designed to be closed.
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Old 08-20-2011, 11:18 PM
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K, thanks. I'm still having a problem. Even though the sound is less muddy now I can't get it to sound better than my sansa fuze no matter how I alter the settings and it doesn't sound that great. The sounds are not separated well or very clear either. I tried stereo, bbe, 3d, etc with no improvement. For cans do I need senn 555's or better to notice what people are talking about? I'm using FLAC etc btw.
BBE won't help FLAC - it's there to restore some quality to lossy formats.

Have you tried the J3 with other phones? Or the Shures with other players? In case one has a problem?

Also: the Fuze is a pretty decent player. My J3 didn't sound like a much better player than my Clip+ until I replaced my Ety HF5s with JVC FXC51s. (Which was a nice way to upgrade as the 51s were cheaper.)
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Old 08-21-2011, 01:06 AM
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No I haven't tried the j3 with other phones although I infinitely tweaked the fuze for yamaha rh10ms monitors and the shure's and it didn't pan out. I was hoping the j3 would fix this but I can't get it to. I used to have a pair of $300 senns that sounded phenomenal, they were open style. I would never expect $100 headphones to sound even slightly as good but its possible that really good headphones spoiled me. Perhaps if I get the senn 555's the open airy design will bring back the airy signature, sound stage etc that I prefer over the closed sound, which seems to put everything more smooshed together. Good opens are so clean and airy sounding and the bass becomes cleaner and more refined. I might be looking for sound I can't expect in these type of phones. I was hoping to at least hear something 'pretty good' but that all depends on what I'm comparing it to doesn't it?

Edit:With some more tweaking I'm finding a definite improvement in the sound. There's quite alot involved in eq-ing the J3 and I'm not used to it yet.Before I was using Normal for alot of the frequencies. Now I've switched to mostly Wide and I find the sound more pleasing. I can still see that this will take some time to learn.

.

Last edited by RealX1; 08-21-2011 at 02:46 AM.
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Old 08-21-2011, 04:58 PM
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There are some very good open and semi-open headphones for under $100 - Grado 60s and and Superlux 668Bs are usually the highest rated. It's just not that **every** headphone under $100 is good. If you want to try IEMs, then those JVC are excellent once you bring the bass under control - they're cheap, and even sort of open - they're bass-ported and sound surprisingly like open full-size headphones.
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Old 08-21-2011, 06:06 PM
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Shure 440 was going to be my first quality headphone after reading a lot of good reviews on the net. Luckily I didn't get it 'cos later when I tried them... damn they were one of the worse headphones I have heard.

You might just like open headphones more than closed. Yeah, deffo look into getting 555 and mod to 595 since there seem to be quite of lot of bargains on it atm.

Superlux is quite good and cheap as well. I just had to sell mine in the end 'cos they are so ugly I was ashamed of going out in them. Good for home use tho.
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Old 08-21-2011, 11:56 PM
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Yeah I don't think I'll be truly happy until I get some better cans. Modifying my earpads to let the mud out noticeably helped. Before I couldn't get the lows especially low-mids low enough. Even at -12 the low-mids caused too much overlap and pushed mud into the music. Now that I've "opened" my headphones up they're clearer but I still see their limitations. I can make the music pretty or better now but I can't get it clear or separated enough. If I have to open my headphones to make them sound better I probably would be happier with open headphones.

Reviews are misleading and confusing. Alot of people could say 'Most amazing headphones' or give tons of 5 stars and then you hear them and they are garbage. Perhaps they don't know what good sound quality is actually like. What I don't want is to get the 555's and sigh because they aren't that great but its all I can afford for now and people tout them as 'entry level audiophile headphones' and all that. Who knows.

What I do know is that after toying more with the J3 I can now see its potential. Its 'Definately' better than the fuze/clip. It has 'way' more potential. Its just a matter of what I connect it to and how much I fiddle with it.
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Old 08-22-2011, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RealX1 View Post
What I do know is that after toying more with the J3 I can now see its potential. Its 'Definately' better than the fuze/clip. It has 'way' more potential. Its just a matter of what I connect it to and how much I fiddle with it.
Just in passing, I mention that using the J3 connected to my car's audio system through the AUX input (headphone out of the J3 to 3.5mm stereo input jack in the globebox) is a remarkable experience.

The car's Harman-Kardon system is excellent (with its own EQ, multi-speakers, etc.) and the J3 sounds like a CD player through it.

However the J3 needs to be set to "normal" rather than any of the BBE presets or my USER1, because feeding "flat" input to the car's system (and then letting its own EQ take over) appears to produce the best sound.
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Old 08-22-2011, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by DSperber View Post
Just in passing, I mention that using the J3 connected to my car's audio system through the AUX input (headphone out of the J3 to 3.5mm stereo input jack in the globebox) is a remarkable experience.

The car's Harman-Kardon system is excellent (with its own EQ, multi-speakers, etc.) and the J3 sounds like a CD player through it.

However the J3 needs to be set to "normal" rather than any of the BBE presets or my USER1, because feeding "flat" input to the car's system (and then letting its own EQ take over) appears to produce the best sound.
I've found over the last few years that this is the best method, regardless of what DAP you are using.
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Old 08-22-2011, 05:49 PM
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Default Un-amped

So I've been thinking about the 555's or now the ath-ad700. Do you think the j3 can handle such headphones well without a secondary amp?

Last edited by RealX1; 08-22-2011 at 05:58 PM.
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Old 08-22-2011, 05:57 PM
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Should be fine, but you realize they won't offer any isolation? Go for the Senns btw.

Spend more money/find less boomy headphones is always good advice if you are serious about SQ.
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Old 08-22-2011, 06:18 PM
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So I've been thinking about the 555's or now the ath-ad700. Do you think the j3 can handle such headphones well without a secondary amp?
You only need an amp if the impedance is high and decibels per mw low. I wouldn't worry until impedance is until at least 150 ohms, possibly 250. The ad700s are only 40-50 ohms.
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Old 08-22-2011, 08:00 PM
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Satellite 6: I've read many people say the ad700's are better sound quality than the 555's but some prefer the 555's instead. Just wondering what your specific reasons are for recommending the 555's because I'm definately open to both of them.

Edit: I'm looking for specific characteristics in a pair of headphones for the J3. Any suggestions would be very appreciated.
*For now, under $150.
*Open cans with as LARGE of a soundstage as possible. I like instruments to lay isolated in their 3d space, very separated.
*Clear/detailed mids and highs. I listen to alot of electronic music with clean detailed treble and vocals etc. I'm tiring of smeary/dispersed treble and bloated mids.
*I don't want much bass, yes its true. I'd prefer weak, soft, or mild bass to anything that would affect mids/highs. I seem to have the hardest time with lows. No matter what I do on my fuze or j3 they always add some low end color into my music even at -12.
To sum it up I want my music to sound as clear/detailed/separated as possible with a very large soundstage and completely unobtrusive lows that keep to themselves.
I know I can't really get this for under $150 but anything close?

Last edited by RealX1; 08-22-2011 at 09:22 PM.
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Old 08-22-2011, 08:07 PM
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Haven't tried them personally, so maybe my recommendation is hollow, but I just love Senns to death.

For a budget open can I would go with the HD 555's or MS1's.

here is an interesting comparison
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Old 08-22-2011, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
I've read many people say
That may be the heart of your problem. I read where you said earlier that reviews are deceiving. I don't think so. I think what happens is that each person attempts to describe how a set of headphones sounds to them. The problem is what's dark to one person may be muddy to the next. Just reading a lot of opinions and reviews didn't help much. I needed a way to find which reviews would mean something to me.

What I found helped me the most was to find a review that described a pair of headphones I all ready had in terms I agreed with. That didn't guarantee that I would always agree with that reviewer's opinion but it did mean that there were some aspects of the way we both heard a set of headphones that were the same. What really helped was if I found several reviewers that came close to what I felt about a set I had. After that I could average their reviews and know that the general consensus would be close to what I could expect from a set of headphones.

I think before you decide which headphones to get you may want to find a reviewer whose taste match your and find what they have to say about the headphones you're looking at. It should increase your odds of finding a set that's right for you.
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Old 08-23-2011, 12:12 AM
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Satellite 6: Still trying to research everything for what its worth. My favorite headphones ever were Sennheiser and they were phenomenal but they are out of my price range for now. I tried some senn 280 pro's at a local shop cause I had such a fondness for senn's. The 280 pro's sounded awful without burn-in. That gave me some brand confusion. And yes, I realise there are alot of variables-what I heard them through, what music was played etc but still..it confused me.

Skip 252: Very useful advice. I never really though about it that way. I placed a post about what I'm looking for in the headphone section because I figured it was more specific compared to the j3 forum. Either way, maybe someone will recognise what I'm talking about. I'm going to keep reading reviews on Amazon to see if something is specific to what I'm saying.
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Old 08-23-2011, 12:16 AM
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Btw, Kizune UCI's are pretty cool but the only reason I switched to it is because J3 while in a song doesn't have instant access to the EQ. I have to go back to main menu, settings, eq/jet etc. Is there a way in the normal j3 interface to go straight from a song on screen to eq like in Kizune?
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