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Old 07-14-2011, 11:39 PM
RandomHajile RandomHajile is offline
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Default playing files higher then 320kbps, sounds fantactic!

Hi 1st post but ive had my 1060 for 2 years now and only recently tryed loading files that exceed the so called 320kb limit that sony quote.

i converted a load of flac albums to AAC 425kbps vbr an loaded them on my walkman.

it really made a differance. i can pick out background vocals/beats that im sure i havent noticed before.

im now thinking it is a real shame the western X can not do lossless as the amp really shines. but having the option to play higher bit rates is a nice comprimise.

now im gonna have to deleate my old albums and replace with these higher aac's

i was using denon 360 earbuds/sennhiser sp25II headphones.

music was bob marley legend + a shm live ep/solaris ost/george michaels older/prodigys new live album and various jamiroquai

and for refrence i have a marantz cd7/sony s master 9000es amp/mdr sa5000

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Old 07-15-2011, 01:22 AM
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Heya welcome to ABi

Glad you have found some terrific sounds for your ears. Just some stuff for you to chew over though...

- numbers don't always tell the whole story and can sometimes be misleading;
- bitrates as measured in kbps vary greatly between encoding formats;
- blind ABX testing is usually one good method to determine the best sounding format/bitrate for each individual;
- generally, higher bitrate files take up more of the precious real estate on your players.

You got great gear - don't forget to simply enjoy the music. Me? I don't get overly caught up in the often nebulous numbers game.

cheers!
-les
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Old 07-15-2011, 01:53 PM
RandomHajile RandomHajile is offline
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yes i agree. i have loads of duplacate albums on my walkman (as the normal flow chart for scene releases is 1st a 192kbps VBR mp3, 2nd a 320kbps CBR mp3 then finaly a 256kbps itunes aac. for me i pref the aac.

i agree with the over used term that high bit rates have more "air"

and that low bit rates, for me are unusable as they go quiet when it gets busy, as in when the whole band is playing with vocals a lot is lost

anyways. for me, going from 320mp3 to 400aac is worth it. im just surprised people havent expremented more

on another note my ps3 can not see these high bit rate aac's

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Old 07-15-2011, 02:10 PM
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Errr, until you ABX both types of formats, there's no way to know for sure if the FLAC sounds better. It's been said that the human ear can make no discernible difference between 320kbs and lossless, and the ear also plays placebo tricks. So until you ABX both formats, you might be fooling yourself into thinking FLAC sounds better. Foobar has an excellent ABX add in.
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Old 07-15-2011, 02:14 PM
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Best way to tell for sure is to install foobar2000 and ABX Comparator plugin and ABX the files.
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Old 07-15-2011, 04:51 PM
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But higher bitrate OGG files that go over 320kbps have been reported to sound better than the 320kbps MP3 files,so this comparison is similar.
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Old 07-15-2011, 04:57 PM
RandomHajile RandomHajile is offline
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like ive said i have AB'd various same albums.

my OG point was that higher bit rates make a difference on the walkman X.

furthermore i use flac on my nokia n900 and again i can tell the differance.

ive even AB'd files on my cd7 and da9000es (they both have spdif inputs) and its as clear as vhs vs dvd.

the question is have any x owners on here dabbled with what my original post touched on?

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Old 07-15-2011, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagoo56 View Post
But higher bitrate OGG files that go over 320kbps have been reported to sound better than the 320kbps MP3 files,so this comparison is similar.
No argument there, this varies from person to person. Just A/B files isn’t good enough, one needs to do a blind testing to tell for themselves, placebo is a wonderful thing
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Old 07-15-2011, 08:42 PM
RandomHajile RandomHajile is offline
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has this really just become a thread about abx blind testing

damn, i thought this was for x1000 owners

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Old 07-15-2011, 09:08 PM
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When you make unfounded claims about audio here it tends to turn into a thread like this. It's not Head-Fi. The science of audio can be discussed anywhere on the site.

Your claim that the X series Sony with ridiculously high bitrate files somehow produces more detail and "air" goes against what's known about the audio capabilities of the Sony and lossy encoding. You can expect it to be questioned until you produce something other than the unsupported evidence of your ears.

You may notice no one has said you can't hear what you claim. Everyone is saying it's unlikely and has pointed you at ways to confirm what you hear. Remarkably few people have done ABX testing and found the differences you say. As a matter of fact I can't remember a single person that has done the testing and continued claiming an improvement past a transparent bitrate that's far below what you state.

Type the term "comparator" into the site's search engine. You'll see that this isn't the first time someone has made a similar claim. If you are willing to do a bit of reading and research you'll find why what you're claiming isn't instantly being accepted.

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Old 07-15-2011, 11:43 PM
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^ This. Once again, skip252 is the true voice of reason

@OP, no one here is telling you that you are wrong. While these numbers may not be 100% correct, it has been shown time and time again that say, out of 100 people, perhaps 5-10, maybe 15 are able to accurately and consistently tell the difference between HQ lossy and lossless formats. If you are one of those rare people, hey man, awesome for you!

Its like the old Coke vs Pepsi kinda thing though. ABX blind testing using something like foobar might actually produce results that surprise you - you may then reconsider your position.

That's all we are trying to say.

cheers man,
-les
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Last edited by lestatar; 07-15-2011 at 11:49 PM.

  #12  
Old 07-16-2011, 09:28 AM
RandomHajile RandomHajile is offline
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well this place seams like a crock of

moderators with their own agenda.

do any of you actually own/had a X1000 ?

or even acknowlage the kit i quoted as mine?

ask yourself how many audio "versus" thread there have been and does it apply to this thread.

how can you say you dont remeber anyone can hear the differance when i have twice stated ive done said tests and can. FFS

  #13  
Old 07-16-2011, 09:48 AM
musichound musichound is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomHajile View Post
how can you say you dont remeber anyone can hear the differance when i have twice stated ive done said tests and can. FFS
Because what you say has no merit because you did not ABX your music. We strive here for correct information and if information posted in these forums is not true then it can lead to other people leading to the same misinformation. My thinking stands: There should be no difference between 320kb and FLAC. Please ABX your files yourself like a lot of other people did. Then you can agree or disagree with what everyone else is stating.

Also, to stay on topic, even though the Walkman X tweaks the bass for a more pronounced sound before any EQ is set, there should still be no difference between the two types of bit rates.
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  #14  
Old 07-16-2011, 10:27 AM
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^ OK. Very much against my better judgment, I am gonna say some stuff - my plans for tonight just fell through and I am now in a really shitty mood.

Just remember, I am the guy who started out having a perfectly nice, welcoming forum conversation with you. Twice.

First, just so you know, I ain't a moderator here in case you were possibly thinking that.

Second, there is absolutely no reason to cop an attitude
. Completely indefensible and absolutely juvenile and totally makes you look bad. No one will ever take you seriously with an attitude like that, not online or in real life. No one knows you here. Try walking into a neighborhood bar or pub and start mouthing off and see what happens.

Everyone here has been nothing but polite and friendly to you. There is no more open and friendly forum online than ABi and you basically have taken the friendly, honest suggestions from people and turned it around into some kinda bullshit. Agenda? What possible frickin' agenda could people have on a site called ABi, other than to suggest alternatives to Apple gear? This site is an independent site that is one of the most objective DAP/audio sites around. Period. Gear that is good is backed up both by subjective opinions and pretty rigorous testing. Gear that is bad is ripped to shreds, regardless of price or brand. Again, period. Walkgood, skip252 and musichound have forgotten more about this stuff than you or I will every likely know.

Third, either you didn't make your claims of actually conducting ABX tests clear or you only think you did. Not until your third post did you even mention AB testing at all. And, more importantly, at no point did you ever bother to explain EXACTLY HOW you ABX tested. Vaguely mentioning that you could hear a difference DOES NOT MEAN YOU ACTUALLY CONDUCTED A LEGITIMATE ABX TEST.

Can you see this point?

Everyone offered you friendly suggestions in case you were not aware of how to properly conduct a legitimate ABX test. Legitimate. If you actually did do exactly that sort of thing, then just say so. And if people question you or even challenge you or still don't believe you, don't be a child and get offended. So what if no one believes you. But if you care enough to write a frustrated, accusatory post, why not just take the time to explain to people HOW you did it - defend your position like an adult.

When people make claims like yours, in any field, more knowledgeable people are gonna want to know how you arrived at your conclusion. I don't know about you, but when someone tells me they can name the exact year, vineyard and grapes for a certain wine for instance, my first response is: Oh really? Prove it.

That's all anyone is saying. If you don't want to prove it, fine, it is your prerogative of course. But then don't expect people to believe you just because you said so without any HARD evidence backing up your claims.

Even after having said all the above, I still am glad you found a music format and gear to your liking. Good for you man. And if I have over-reacted in my response here, I am man enough and secure enough and mature enough to say I am sorry, but for that and that alone.

Yet I remain unapologetic for the intentions and the opinions I voice here. I am no expert on these matters - far from it. But I know enough to satisfy myself and more importantly, I know that there are a ton of people out there that know more about this stuff than I ever will or may ever care to.

But I also have been here on ABi long enough to really, really like the place and I will not stand idly by and have people make unsupported, unwarranted and completely spurious accusations here, especially not at people I have come to know a bit and respect.

You'll probably either laugh at this rant or go completely apeshit - believe me, I couldn't possibly care less either way. But then again, you could maybe really surprise people by taking it down a notch or 12 and start over again.

Get it together.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomHajile View Post
Hi 1st post but ive had my 1060 for 2 years now and only recently tryed loading files that exceed the so called 320kb limit that sony quote.

i converted a load of flac albums to AAC 425kbps vbr an loaded them on my walkman.

it really made a differance. i can pick out background vocals/beats that im sure i havent noticed before.

im now thinking it is a real shame the western X can not do lossless as the amp really shines. but having the option to play higher bit rates is a nice comprimise.

now im gonna have to deleate my old albums and replace with these higher aac's

i was using denon 360 earbuds/sennhiser sp25II headphones.

music was bob marley legend + a shm live ep/solaris ost/george michaels older/prodigys new live album and various jamiroquai

and for refrence i have a marantz cd7/sony s master 9000es amp/mdr sa5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomHajile View Post
yes i agree. i have loads of duplacate albums on my walkman (as the normal flow chart for scene releases is 1st a 192kbps VBR mp3, 2nd a 320kbps CBR mp3 then finaly a 256kbps itunes aac. for me i pref the aac.

i agree with the over used term that high bit rates have more "air"

and that low bit rates, for me are unusable as they go quiet when it gets busy, as in when the whole band is playing with vocals a lot is lost

anyways. for me, going from 320mp3 to 400aac is worth it. im just surprised people havent expremented more

on another note my ps3 can not see these high bit rate aac's
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomHajile View Post
like ive said i have AB'd various same albums.

my OG point was that higher bit rates make a difference on the walkman X.

furthermore i use flac on my nokia n900 and again i can tell the differance.

ive even AB'd files on my cd7 and da9000es (they both have spdif inputs) and its as clear as vhs vs dvd.

the question is have any x owners on here dabbled with what my original post touched on?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomHajile View Post
has this really just become a thread about abx blind testing

damn, i thought this was for x1000 owners
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomHajile View Post
well this place seams like a crock of

moderators with their own agenda.

do any of you actually own/had a X1000 ?

or even acknowlage the kit i quoted as mine?

ask yourself how many audio "versus" thread there have been and does it apply to this thread.

how can you say you dont remeber anyone can hear the differance when i have twice stated ive done said tests and can. FFS
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  #15  
Old 07-16-2011, 11:29 AM
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You, Sir Lestatar, are a scholar and a gentleman. Great writeup.
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  #16  
Old 07-16-2011, 12:52 PM
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Lestatar, you truly kick some educated ASS!!! Great HONEST retort my friend,...

  #17  
Old 07-16-2011, 02:11 PM
RandomHajile RandomHajile is offline
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1: my original comments were aimed at x1000 owners, infact it was a bit of a heads up, as its stated as 320kbps max supported.

2: i stated what my form of reference is, ie: one of the best cd players made and arguably the best digital amp available, with decent $500 headphones. anyone would recognise this as (he would know the difference between lossy and lossless)

3: i stated i have dup albums in dif formats on said walkman, and have compared, and even accentually start listening to a song and know instantly its not "right" then find the correct version i wanted to hear. this again ignored.

so it seams you guys have failed to acknowledge what i tried to avoid, ie: uptight trolls with OCD for saying their agenda on (people cant tell what from what)

what a croc of crap.

do you really post every thread presuming what they can or not hear?

yes or no?

ohh and the pepsi vs coke analogy was laughable.

for the record my profession is in tv broadcast since late 90s as is my experience with compressed audio/mp3s (+minidisc) an a hobbyist in hifi since early 90s

so yeah, soo preaching to the wrong guy

but yeah, whom of you have a x1000? im interested how you know its bass is biased

  #18  
Old 07-16-2011, 02:29 PM
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Doesn't matter what your profession is. A TV broadcaster can have the same ears as anyone else, including people who claim to have "golden" ears or ears that can't differentiate noise from audio. We're just trying to avoid "experience" based on placebo. Until ABX testing is performed, the placebo verdict is still applied. Until you ABX test, whatever statements in regard to bit rates will be regarded as fodder the most. Also, we're not asking you to "prove" anything. We're asking for you not to post on information that hasn't been properly tested.
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Last edited by musichound; 07-16-2011 at 02:39 PM.

  #19  
Old 07-16-2011, 02:36 PM
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You still don't get it and as i lack tact and am very blunt i will make it really easy to understand. ABX or GTFO.

Comparing two tracks of different bit rates by is simply not an accurate comparison. You have repeatedly ignored the comments to ABX the tracks which just makes you another one of "those people", and no one with half a brain is going to take you seriously.
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  #20  
Old 07-16-2011, 02:42 PM
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@RandomHajile: I owned the X1060, and what you state is BS,...PERIOD. Go find another forum to preach your audiophile "croc of crap",...you really are a troll of the unwanted kind.

Oops, I almost forgot - we have an "Ignore List" for trolls like this, so welcome to it.

Last edited by The DarkSide; 07-16-2011 at 03:02 PM.

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