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  #21  
Old 05-13-2011, 09:20 PM
sergivs sergivs is offline
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Thanks for your comments!

Just to clarify, I don't think earbuds are so great, but the ones that came with the Clip+ are much better than what I had expected (very little). And better than the IEMs I tried. Just my personal subjective experience. I still prefer the circumaural headphones. Too big to carry them around everywhere, unfortunately.

I took a look at the Yuins, thanks for suggesting them. The PK1 are 150 Ohms, the PK2 and PK3 are 16 Ohm. I wish they had something in the middle, But maybe I should try the PK2.

In the meantime, I decided to burn in the Senheiser IE6s, mostly out of curiosity. I never noticed any burn-in effects in any new speakers or headphones I bought, but maybe I wasn't paying attention (because I liked them).
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  #22  
Old 05-15-2011, 01:35 AM
sergivs sergivs is offline
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After about 30 hours of burning in Senheiser IE6s, I think I can hear a difference. The sound seems to be more transparent. But it can be due to placebo effect or chance.

Regardless, the piercing highs remain. I played with a 10-band EQ and was able to compensate to some degree, but it's more than just frequency response. Maybe it's partly psychological, something to do with the slight physical discomfort of wearing IEMs or hearing internal sounds louder. Pretty interesting effect.

Listening to IEMs to me is a little like being spoon-fed, or maybe IV-fed. Still seems like a good option for long flights.

@lestatar after reading a review on DT770 headphones, I know: I like deep, punchy bass. But I'm still not a bass monster
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  #23  
Old 10-11-2011, 08:56 AM
sergivs sergivs is offline
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Belated thanks for recommending the Yuin earbuds -- I got the PK2 model and really liked it. Unfortunately, I lost them on the train a few days ago, along with my Clip+.

They sounded pretty good, better than any earbuds I tried before, so I will probably just get another pair. I thought it was a little odd that the supposedly hi-quality models were either high-impedance (PK1, 150 Ohms) or low (PK2, 16 Ohms). Then there is the PK3, 32 Ohms, but acccording to their website it's lower quality.

I was also thinking of getting a used iPod 5 80G and installing Rockbox on it. Clip+ was really nice, but 40G just isn't enough for me, and the screen is so tiny. One problem with the iPod is that it has a higher output impedance, which will have a more noticeable effect with low-impedance load like the PK2s (muddy bass etc). I do not really want to carry a separate amp.

Can anyone recommend something similar to Yuin PK1 / PK2 with the impedance between 32 and 80 Ohms? Maybe even natural-sounding IEMs, although so far I did not like any that tried. Has anyone tried the PK3s, are they noticeably worse?
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  #24  
Old 10-26-2011, 06:01 PM
JK98 JK98 is offline
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I haven't heard any of the Yuin earbuds yet. i too prefer earbuds to iems. i have been reading a number of websites about earbuds, and I guess the best earbuds are probably the discontinued Sony E484(which seems to only be available for around $250 and up used on Ebay), the Sennheiser MX980, and the Yuin PK1. I don't want to spend over $150 for earbuds though. The Yuin PK3 looks interesting. A review claimed that it has better bass than the PK2, but is not as good as the PK2 for treble. The Sennheiser MX880 looks interesting. It is around $66. I wonder how it compares to the Yuin PK2. The Sennheiser MX580 is quite good considering that it is under $25.
it is almost as good as the Sony MDR-E888. Is the PK1, MX980, or Sony E484 worth the price? I am not yet convinced it is, however the PK2 or MX880 might be worth it.

What do you have against 16 ohm earphones? Most of the best earphones seem to be 16 ohms.

Last edited by JK98; 12-19-2011 at 01:35 PM.
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  #25  
Old 10-26-2011, 07:40 PM
sergivs sergivs is offline
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I had the PK2 and really liked them. Still not as good ad over-the-ear phones, but much better than I expected. Do you have a link to that PK3 review? The description on the Yuin website kind of plays them down, I think they write that they are meant for pop music or something like that.

I'm thinking of getting the PK1, although I agree $150 is too expensive for earbuds. But perhaps not too expensive for good sound, which most other earbuds can't produce, but these probably can. I was hesitant because of the high impedance, but with sensitivity taken into account, they are still supposed to be louder than my 80-Ohm headphones, which are loud enough on the players that I'm going to use.

What I have against the 16-Ohm earphones is that they will not sound very good on a player with high output resistance, such as an iPod, which I plan to use. By high I mean comparable to the load. In the iPod think it's about 7 Ohms, I don't remember exactly, but it's in that range. Because of the reactive component in the earphone's impedance, this produces an uneven frequency response. And phase, if that matters. In any case, the bass usually sounds muddy.

The Sansa Clip+ has a pretty low output resistance, for example, so it shouldn't be a problem on that player. I think it's about 1 Ohm or less. My guess is that most other players are worse in that regard.

Last edited by sergivs; 11-10-2011 at 11:16 PM. Reason: typo
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  #26  
Old 10-26-2011, 11:16 PM
JK98 JK98 is offline
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I read reviews on the Yuin earphones on head-fi and Amazon. If the PK2 was so good, then why not get another one? I guess you prefer an earphone more on the bright side than on the bassy side?
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  #27  
Old 10-26-2011, 11:53 PM
sergivs sergivs is offline
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Because it's 16 Ohms, and I want something to use with an iPod. I think I prefer them on the neutral side. Actually, bass was a bit of a problem: the only way was to get good bass on the PK2 (or any headphone or earphone or IEM, for that matter) was to get a good seal, which was not always easy, and their little foam caps, which were probably supposed to help with that, did not hold very well. But I still prefer them to IEMs.
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  #28  
Old 10-27-2011, 10:01 PM
katzer katzer is offline
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Greetings, this is my first post to this forum
I thought I would join the discussion. As far as IEM I have 2 that I can attest for:
Koss The Plug (not the spark plug, those are utter rubbish). They are not bad at all, and offer great isolation. I found the bass could be on the boomy side, at least for me. I recall a modding page for those phones on Headwize, where people were concerned on getting *more* bass, so I suppose some folks don't get a very good seal with them. Whenever I use them, I use the EQ to lower the bass and then I find them pretty good. They are dirt cheap, so I would at least give them a try.

Etymotic ER4P/S. I got the ER4p version and then the adapter that makes them ER4S. Those are pricey but *very* detailed. For some reason, I find them a little on light on the bass department, maybe I need to get better foams for better isolation.
The ER4P->ER4S converter is basically two 75Ohm resistors on each channel. I originally made one just for kicks and later on bought original one (it was less than $20).

If you really like the 16Ohm Yuins, but afraid they might be a bad match to the Ipod's impedence, you might want to consider either making or buying such an adapter and see if it improves things.

That adapter was useful in another occasion: a few years ago I tried a Presouns HP4 amp. It sounded *VERY* rough on pretty much anything a threw at it, but when I put the above mentioned adapter between it and my Senn HD580, i was very surprised at the improvement. It tamed it quite a bit and the sound was quite enjoyable.

Just my few cents.

Cheers,

Erez
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  #29  
Old 10-27-2011, 10:27 PM
sergivs sergivs is offline
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Thanks for the suggestions. After trying a couple of different IEMs that are considered pretty good I decided that this type of earphone is probably just not for me, although maybe I haven't tried the right ones yet.

As for the resistor (I'm assuming in series with the earphone), it's not a very good idea. First of all, you don't really need to match the amp's output impedance, it's not that kind of application at all. Second, this is not how impedance matching works. And in our case, it will basically make the problem of high output resistance of the amp almost as bad as it can possibly be.
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  #30  
Old 11-10-2011, 09:01 PM
sergivs sergivs is offline
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Got the Yuin PK1's a couple of days ago and they sound pretty nice.
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  #31  
Old 11-10-2011, 10:52 PM
JK98 JK98 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sergivs View Post
Got the Yuin PK1's a couple of days ago and they sound pretty nice.
Is it really that much better than the PK2? I had no doubt that it would sound good, the question is how much better is it than the PK2 or MX880? is is better than the MX980? Does it work well with Sandisk players? The PK3 intrigues me much more than the PK1. I am also curious how the Sennheiser MX580 compares to the MX880, and how the MX880 compares to the MX980. I doubt that I would ever pay more than $100 for earphones. I usually try to spend under $50, however I could see paying up to around $70 if they are very good.
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  #32  
Old 11-10-2011, 11:11 PM
sergivs sergivs is offline
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Unfortunately, I can't compare them directly. They do seem better than the PK2s, but I lost those a month ago.

They are a little too large for my ears, I think the PK2s were the same.

I'm pretty sure they would work well with the Clip+, but for that player I would just get the PK2s.
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  #33  
Old 12-19-2011, 04:30 AM
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Danneq Danneq is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JK98 View Post
I doubt that I would ever pay more than $100 for earphones.
Haha! That was me 1,5 year ago! This year I have bought ATH ES10 for 30.000 yen, a pair of very rare and discontinued Sony MDR E484 earbuds for 153 euro (+ 13 euro for shipping), even older and discontinued Sony MDR E282 earbuds for 129 euro (+ 17 euro in shipping), discontinued Sony MDR E464 earbuds for around £76 (shipping and old Sony D88 discman included), and last but not least even rarer Aiwa HP D9 earbuds for 111 euro (+ 7 euro for shipping)

Are they worth the price? For the ATH ES10, I think they are slightly overpriced. The retail price is close to 50.000 yen, but Yodobashi Camera in Japan has lowered the price to 30.000. Around 25.000 would be a resonable price.

About the rare discontinued earbuds, I'm paying for a rare commodity and not for sound. I'm surprised that something that was discontinued almost 20 years ago can sound much better than my Yuin PK2. The Sony MDR E484 has got a very deep bass and still quite a wide soundstage.
The Aiwa D9 at first was a disappointment. The left side driver didn't have any bass. I opened up the driver and put scotch tape over what looked to be a hole in the plastic diaphragm/membrane, and what do you know! The driver started working as normal again! The Aiwa D9 is incredibly detailed, but lacks bass. That is okay since the soundstage is very wide and deep and you can clearly hear tiny details and instrument layerings. I've never heard such a sound from a pair of earbuds. A pair of Aiwa D9 just sold on Ebay for over 300 euro!

Anyway, the best $50 earbuds in my mind is the Blox M2C. Unfortunately Blox is a much smaller company than Yuin, so they only make small batches that tend to sell out quick. The detail level on the M2C is about the same as on the PK2 and bass is slightly subdued compared to the PK2. But the soundstage is quite wide and deep. I like my PK2, but the M2C beats them.
Considering the OP:s taste in music, the M2C might be better than the PK2.
Haven't heard the PK1. I don't care for high impedance earbuds.

I don't know when Blox will have a new batch for sale, but you can look on their homepage now and then: http://bloxearphone.com/
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Last edited by Danneq; 12-19-2011 at 05:02 AM. Reason: Added links
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