android
  #21  
Old 03-22-2011, 07:01 AM
Marvin the Martian's Avatar
Marvin the Martian Marvin the Martian is offline
Ultra Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: east central NY state
Posts: 10,602
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shike View Post
Is there something specifically wrong with NuForce? I know their potentiometers on some portable DAC/Amps have problems with highly sensitive IEMs . . . ?
Well, yes.....see below.
Quote:
SPECIAL NOTE TO HEAD-FI MEMBERS: Unfortunately, before I posted this article, the administrators at Head-Fi.org started censoring links to this blog. So if you had some trouble finding the results here, Iím sorry. The links were apparently not a problem when I was posting at Head-Fi on the Sansa Clip+ and several other topics. The censorship only started after one of the paying Head-Fi sponsors (NuForce) publically complained about my review of their product. I have asked the admins and site owner to please explain how linking to this blog is harmful in any way to Head-fi or its members, but I have not received an answer.
One of the reasons I created this blog was to do a better job answering common questions, provide more detailed product reviews, etc. and link to that information from various forums. It avoids repeating myself over and over and I can do a better job focusing on a single article instead of a bunch of sloppy, repetitive, and scattered thread posts. Plus it keeps the forum threads more concise--those interested in more details can just follow a link here. But Head-Fiís censorship prevents all this and makes Head-Fi a much less attractive place for my contributions. I suspect thatís the real intent of their censorship. NuForce has already said they would like me to go away.
The sole reason the administrators have offered for their actions is Iím ďusing Head-Fi to promote my blogĒ. If sharing information thatís been almost exclusively well received by Head-Fi members is ďpromotionĒ then I guess Iím guilty. And, interestingly, lots of other Head-Fi members ďpromoteĒ their blogs and websites in their signatures yet mine was deleted. There seems to be a clear double standard at Head-Fi and I apparently ended up on the wrong side of it.
BACKGROUND: NuForce responded to their uDAC-2 measuring poorly by saying it was designed to sound good even if several measurements are notably bad. So I came up with the best way I knew how to judge the NuForce purely on sound quality.
Above quote from http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/03/...e-results.html
__________________
iPod Touch 5G 32GB, Touch 4G 32GB, Clip Sport 8GB. Rockbox-> Clip Zip 4GB, iPod Nano 2G 4GB, iPod 5.5G 80GB
2012 Nexus 7 32GB, Asus MeMoPad 8 16+64GB, LG Optimus G Pro, Nokia Lumia 900 and Lumia 520
Reply With Quote

Advertisement [Remove Advertisement]

  #22  
Old 03-22-2011, 07:55 AM
Shike Shike is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin the Martian View Post
Well, yes.....see below.
Above quote from http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/03/...e-results.html
Head-Fi censoring doesn't bother me anymore, it's expected over there with voodoo worship. The bad engineering though . . . ouch.

Makes me wonder who got the short-end of the stick in a recent trade I did. Shek D1 (first ver. with average TDA1543 circuit) for Sparrow and uDAC (orig). I've been trying to get out of audiophile voodoo only going with proven designs, seems I'm still stuck with at least one shoddy device . . . and who knows about the Sparrow (at least it isn't a TDA anymore though).

EDIT:

Looking at the write-up nwavguy did closer I have to say my concerns are actually quite limited. Channel imbalance (I knew about, and already planned on lowering gain to handle from the PC), and the DAC section clipping (since I'm lowering gain anyway, shouldn't be an issue). Output impedance is debated constantly . . . if the headphone has a flat impedance curve or with minimal deviation it isn't an issue. There's MP3 players out there that have similar output impedance levels, unfortunately it can be a compromise (I'd hate to have huge hiss on IEMs in comparison).

1% THD isn't going to be audible under most conditions IME . . . test signals are really different from music when asking if it's audible or not.

Of course, this isn't to say I'm happy with responses from either party. Both turned into cretins quite fast, though NuForce trying to use their connections to quiet down the other was dirty. On the other hand NuForce has gone as far to allow a six month trial period of their uDAC, which while sounds like damage control would be a very stupid move if they believed there really was devastating issue with their design.

The uDAC generally seems to be a device with some honest compromises, but is getting panned for them for being substantially more expensive than competition due to them (and to be honesty, fairly so). The product isn't nearly the absolute impossibly redeemable piece of junk nwavguy makes it out to be either - it's just an average audio product at an above average price.

Reading through the blog, the head-fi thread, and NuForce engineer's official response in their rebuttal PDF as left me thinking train wrecks are potentially less painful to watch unfold. >_>

The take away: Hey, at least the uDac isn't from HiFiMan!

Last edited by Shike; 03-22-2011 at 09:05 AM.
Reply With Quote

  #23  
Old 03-23-2011, 09:21 AM
grunge100 grunge100 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 35
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shike View Post
Head-Fi censoring doesn't bother me anymore, it's expected over there with voodoo worship. The bad engineering though . . . ouch.

Makes me wonder who got the short-end of the stick in a recent trade I did. Shek D1 (first ver. with average TDA1543 circuit) for Sparrow and uDAC (orig). I've been trying to get out of audiophile voodoo only going with proven designs, seems I'm still stuck with at least one shoddy device . . . and who knows about the Sparrow (at least it isn't a TDA anymore though).

EDIT:

Looking at the write-up nwavguy did closer I have to say my concerns are actually quite limited. Channel imbalance (I knew about, and already planned on lowering gain to handle from the PC), and the DAC section clipping (since I'm lowering gain anyway, shouldn't be an issue). Output impedance is debated constantly . . . if the headphone has a flat impedance curve or with minimal deviation it isn't an issue. There's MP3 players out there that have similar output impedance levels, unfortunately it can be a compromise (I'd hate to have huge hiss on IEMs in comparison).

1% THD isn't going to be audible under most conditions IME . . . test signals are really different from music when asking if it's audible or not.

Of course, this isn't to say I'm happy with responses from either party. Both turned into cretins quite fast, though NuForce trying to use their connections to quiet down the other was dirty. On the other hand NuForce has gone as far to allow a six month trial period of their uDAC, which while sounds like damage control would be a very stupid move if they believed there really was devastating issue with their design.

The uDAC generally seems to be a device with some honest compromises, but is getting panned for them for being substantially more expensive than competition due to them (and to be honesty, fairly so). The product isn't nearly the absolute impossibly redeemable piece of junk nwavguy makes it out to be either - it's just an average audio product at an above average price.

Reading through the blog, the head-fi thread, and NuForce engineer's official response in their rebuttal PDF as left me thinking train wrecks are potentially less painful to watch unfold. >_>

The take away: Hey, at least the uDac isn't from HiFiMan!
Yea, I really never understood all the love for the HiFiMan pos DAP. I heard the 602 and was not impressed, It sounded like other DAPs that I have heard, except for the high end roll off.
__________________
Zune HD 30GB
Original Zune 30GB
Cowon J3 16 GB
Reply With Quote

  #24  
Old 10-04-2012, 01:57 PM
Mshenay Mshenay is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1
Default Have you Listen to it?

I see you guys seem to hate the Hifiman because it has bad readings, but seriously have you actually listened to it... I do I OWN it

Compared to the Zune HD, the Hifiman sounds alot better, the ZUNE hd is rather dark and almost anemic, where as the Hifiman has warmth but still maintains brightness in the treble.

Also I am a Head-Fi member and the one thing I hear the most... is don't judge it b4 u listen to it :/ because I saw this and I doubted my Hifiman Puchase... well I'm happy I got it. I'm still testing it though and I do have an iPod Nano 3d Gen & Zune HD, and the Hifiman does sound better than both of them :I

So I've demo'd the Hifiman against the ZUNE hd and the iPod and it sounds better :/
Reply With Quote

  #25  
Old 10-04-2012, 02:32 PM
Marvin the Martian's Avatar
Marvin the Martian Marvin the Martian is offline
Ultra Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: east central NY state
Posts: 10,602
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post
Compared to the Zune HD, the Hifiman sounds alot better, the ZUNE hd is rather dark and almost anemic, where as the Hifiman has warmth but still maintains brightness in the treble.
I don't know what you're smoking (no offense) but the Zune HD is not dark sounding at all.....if anything it sounded bright and anemic to me when I had mine. I usually used it with an amp with a bass boost feature, not becuase I needed more volume, but so the bass boost would give the sound more fullness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post
Also I am a Head-Fi member and the one thing I hear the most... is don't judge it b4 u listen to it :/ because I saw this and I doubted my Hifiman Puchase... well I'm happy I got it. I'm still testing it though and I do have an iPod Nano 3d Gen & Zune HD, and the Hifiman does sound better than both of them :I

So I've demo'd the Hifiman against the ZUNE hd and the iPod and it sounds better :/
I have no experience with the 3rd gen Nano, but for the price of Hifiman players, they'd better sound better than a Zune HD....lol
__________________
iPod Touch 5G 32GB, Touch 4G 32GB, Clip Sport 8GB. Rockbox-> Clip Zip 4GB, iPod Nano 2G 4GB, iPod 5.5G 80GB
2012 Nexus 7 32GB, Asus MeMoPad 8 16+64GB, LG Optimus G Pro, Nokia Lumia 900 and Lumia 520
Reply With Quote

  #26  
Old 10-04-2012, 02:46 PM
skip252 skip252 is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,192
Default

This ain't Headfi. No one has to own a DAP to express an opinion on this site.

However you apparently weren't bright enough to read in the first post that the OP owned the player he then tested. He was motivated to perform the testing because it didn't sound good to him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sergivs View Post
I bought it online and thought some music sounded very good on it, and some sounded kind of strange. I'm not going to say anything about the design. The battery life is poor, user interface very buggy, but I'm not going to dwell on that, either. It's supposed to be about the sound. Again, I didn't think that everything sounded right on it, but these things can be pretty subtle and difficult to judge.
Enjoy your player. I didn't have to pay for it and don't listen to it so I really don't care. I enjoy what I have and don't feel the need to defend that in any way.

Why do you? I would surmise that you're not as confident in your ability to judge audio quality and feel the need to have others join you in your audiophoolery. When you come to understand that music enjoyment is a personal experience and there's no need to attack others choices or defend yours you'll stop being an audiophile and start really enjoying your music.
Reply With Quote

  #27  
Old 10-04-2012, 03:12 PM
Enigmatic Enigmatic is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 709
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post
I see you guys seem to hate the Hifiman because it has bad readings, but seriously have you actually listened to it... I do I OWN it

Compared to the Zune HD, the Hifiman sounds alot better, the ZUNE hd is rather dark and almost anemic, where as the Hifiman has warmth but still maintains brightness in the treble.

Also I am a Head-Fi member and the one thing I hear the most... is don't judge it b4 u listen to it :/ because I saw this and I doubted my Hifiman Puchase... well I'm happy I got it. I'm still testing it though and I do have an iPod Nano 3d Gen & Zune HD, and the Hifiman does sound better than both of them :I

So I've demo'd the Hifiman against the ZUNE hd and the iPod and it sounds better :/
Evaluating sound quality using only your ears is tricky. A lot of care is needed to do it right. http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum...ad.php?t=68675.
Reply With Quote

  #28  
Old 10-04-2012, 03:50 PM
The DarkSide's Avatar
The DarkSide The DarkSide is offline
Ultra Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Qns Vlg, NYC
Posts: 16,037
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post
I see you guys seem to hate the Hifiman because it has bad readings, but seriously have you actually listened to it... I do I OWN it

Compared to the Zune HD, the Hifiman sounds alot better, the ZUNE hd is rather dark and almost anemic, where as the Hifiman has warmth but still maintains brightness in the treble.

Also I am a Head-Fi member and the one thing I hear the most... is don't judge it b4 u listen to it :/ because I saw this and I doubted my Hifiman Puchase... well I'm happy I got it. I'm still testing it though and I do have an iPod Nano 3d Gen & Zune HD, and the Hifiman does sound better than both of them :I

So I've demo'd the Hifiman against the ZUNE hd and the iPod and it sounds better :/
Heh, another wannabe audiofool who can't read. Enjoy, it's your (foolishly) spent money. Remember, a wannabe "audiofool" and his money are soon parted!!!
Reply With Quote

  #29  
Old 10-04-2012, 04:02 PM
musichound musichound is offline
Off-Topic Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Staten Island, NYC
Posts: 2,057
Default

Mshenay, as long as the Hifiman sounds better to YOU, that counts the most. Enjoy it, and always have an open mind to all other players.
__________________
Cowon X7 160GB - iRiver H320 - IPod Classic 160GB - iPod 5.5G 80GB - Sansa Clip Plus 4GB - Original Sansa Clip 2GB
Reply With Quote

  #30  
Old 10-04-2012, 04:51 PM
saratoga saratoga is offline
Rockbox Developer / Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,601
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post
I see you guys seem to hate the Hifiman because it has bad readings, but seriously have you actually listened to it... I do I OWN it

...

So I've demo'd the Hifiman against the ZUNE hd and the iPod and it sounds better :/
People posted FLAC files recorded from it and I listened to those. The output has a pretty pronounced high frequency roll off.

You might like that, but IMO its still a pretty bad design. You shouldn't bake EQ settings into your DAC.
__________________
Interested in Google's Summer of Code ? PM me.
Reply With Quote

  #31  
Old 10-04-2012, 09:07 PM
The DarkSide's Avatar
The DarkSide The DarkSide is offline
Ultra Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Qns Vlg, NYC
Posts: 16,037
Default

You mean "old discarded low cost" DAC,...right?
Reply With Quote

Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:21 PM.