MicroSD and Battery Life effect...

[FluffyWings]

I just tested rockbox with 128-192 mp3 VBR's with 2GB MicroSD.

Total Time: 7:58:42

Better but still not even double digits.

[CrowdAds]

[saratoga]

Originally Posted by FluffyWings

Clip+ 4GB (128-192 mp3 VBR's)
- 6 hours with MicroSD, official firmware.
- 10 hours without MicroSD, official firmware.

300 mA battery over 15 hours is 20 mAh. MicroSD should impact battery life as it will use a few mAh.

It only uses power when its turned on, which is only a tiny fraction of the time. Say it uses 5mA when reading, but only reads 3 seconds per 300 seconds of audio, then the average current is then 50 uA, which is 2.2 minutes lost per 15 hours of run time.

[FluffyWings]

I am testing with rockbox without a card to see if my time improves.

saratoga any suggestions on why my battery life isn't 15 hours?

[esgikey]

Originally Posted by saratoga

It only uses power when its turned on, which is only a tiny fraction of the time. Say it uses 5mA when reading, but only reads 3 seconds per 300 seconds of audio, then the average current is then 50 uA, which is 2.2 minutes lost per 15 hours of run time.

as a Junior Member, i want to know, is rockbox for Clip+ already optimized for ARM 926ejs CPU?

my experience think that system uses more power when mircoSD inserted, even when i play song only from internal memory. it seems that cpu still use power to comunicate with microSD...

it's just my opinion, as i know, i'm not a rockbox developer.
the point of view of enthusiast Rockbox user.

CMIIW

[skip252]

Originally Posted by esgikey

as a Junior Member, i want to know, is rockbox for Clip+ already optimized for ARM 926ejs CPU?

my experience think that system uses more power when mircoSD inserted, even when i play song only from internal memory. it seems that cpu still use power to comunicate with microSD...

it's just my opinion, as i know, i'm not a rockbox developer.
the point of view of enthusiast Rockbox user.

CMIIW

This battery benchmark was done today using a playlist made from 100 files split evenly between the external card and the internal memory. 50 -q5 Vorbis and 50 -V4 .mp3. The equalizer was on. The volume was adjusted to between -25 and -19 depending on how noisy things were around me . The backlight was set to 10 seconds. I listened with my usual set of Senn HD 428s connected. Those are of 32 ohm headphones. *EDIT:The microsdhc card used was a "no name" 8 GB that tests at Class 2 speed.

With the exception of the equal splitting of the playlist between the internal memory and the card this is my usual setup. I used it as I normally do. Changed songs, volume up and down, everything. The one thing that was different was that I let it run down rather than shutting it off when I was finished.

This isn't based on what I think but what actually occurred today. I have gotten results like this consistently since at least September 2010. If you are getting something different it's either your usage pattern or your player, not Rockbox.

15:50:28 ---Battery bench ended, reason: power off-

[FluffyWings]

I was not implying rockbox was failing in any way.

I am confused one what my usage pattern is that I am getting such bad battery life.

The tests I have been doing have been leaving it play through 16 ohm skull candy inked earphones at half volume (-23 dB) without touching the display more than 4 times at 15 second timeout. I will try my 16GB card, maybe the 2GB card is drawing more current then normal.

I will also try to use ogg instead of mp3.

[esgikey]

Originally Posted by skip252

This battery benchmark was done today using a playlist made from 100 files split evenly between the external card and the internal memory. 50 -q5 Vorbis and 50 -V4 .mp3. The equalizer was on. The volume was adjusted to between -25 and -19 depending on how noisy things were around me . The backlight was set to 10 seconds. I listened with my usual set of Senn HD 428s connected. Those are of 32 ohm headphones.

With the exception of the equal splitting of the playlist between the internal memory and the card this is my usual setup. I used it as I normally do. Changed songs, volume up and down, everything. The one thing that was different was that I let it run down rather than shutting it off when I was finished.

This isn't based on what I think but what actually occurred today. I have gotten results like this consistently since at least September 2010. If you are getting something different it's either your usage pattern or your player, not Rockbox.

15:50:28 ---Battery bench ended, reason: power off-

okay, thanks for your comprehensive benchmark....

so i think something different with my usage pattern,

i never said that rockbox give me less battery life,
as you can see i just asking about 2 variable, battery life and microSD.

once again, i'm sorry for this misunderstanding.

regards..

[esgikey]

Originally Posted by FluffyWings

I was not implying rockbox was failing in any way.

I am confused one what my usage pattern is that I am getting such bad battery life.

The tests I have been doing have been leaving it play through 16 ohm skull candy inked earphones at half volume (-23 dB) without touching the display more than 4 times at 15 second timeout. I will try my 16GB card, maybe the 2GB card is drawing more current then normal.

I will also try to use ogg instead of mp3.

hahhha, i'm on your side....

2 GB microSD vs 16 GB microSDHC.

diferent type of card, so different in power consumption ?
not yet based on test, coz i don't have microSDHC card.

i will wait for you to do the test..

thanks....

[FluffyWings]

Just finished testing Rockbox without MicroSD.

Total Time: 15:32

7:58 vs 15:32 clearly shows that MicroSD can impact battery life.

I believe it is one or both of the following:

1) The controller/memory in the MicroSD can affect battery life.
2) Leakage current on some Clip+'s hardware when MicroSD is connected.

As many people have shown, 15 hours is possible with MicroSD. I will test with 16GB this weekend. Maybe out of curiosity I will send mine to another member like saratoga to test their same usage on my clip+.

Either way rockbox is awesome!

Attached are both Benchmarks.

[skip252]

Was there a part about the battery bench I performed that the files were split evenly between the card and the player you missed? I have no idea what you are doing to produce the results you're getting but it's something other than having the card inserted.

[saratoga]

Originally Posted by esgikey

as a Junior Member, i want to know, is rockbox for Clip+ already optimized for ARM 926ejs CPU?

A lot of it is. I've been slowly rewriting various codecs for instance.

Originally Posted by esgikey

my experience think that system uses more power when mircoSD inserted, even when i play song only from internal memory. it seems that cpu still use power to communicate with microSD...

If it is, thats a bug. But it doesn't seem to happen with my hardware, so you're probably on your own fixing it. I wonder which SD variant your player uses? (System > Debug > View Hardware Info).

[FluffyWings]

3.5GB Internal (4GB Clip+)
1.8GB External (2GB Transcend MicroSD)

Correction: 128-320 VBR mp3's. I will retest with q4 ogg this weekend.

I wasn't trying to evenly split my music between the two. I just filled up both Internal and External as much as I could.

[skip252]

The only purpose in splitting the play list that way was to be certain the card was actually in use. As to what codec and bitrate to used, I used what I use everyday. That's what's transparent to me and convenient for my everyday use.

If I'm testing something so I can know what to expect from regular use I use what I always use. If that blend of files is your everyday mix I'd use that.

My point is that if the addition of a memory card cuts your runtime by nearly half something is very wrong. My results are reproducible. Card or not my battery benches don't vary more than a few minutes not hours. Since the player is in use that can easily be accounted for with me skipping a few extra songs or not during a test.

Think about the corollary to your belief that adding a card cuts battery life by the amount you think it does. If I am able to get nearly 16 hrs. with the card in shouldn't I gain a commensurate increase with the card out? I'm pretty sure that if someone was able to get that much runtime increase with decent bitrate files somebody would have noticed and reported it by now. I sure would have.

[esgikey]

Originally Posted by saratoga

A lot of it is. I've been slowly rewriting various codecs for instance.



If it is, thats a bug. But it doesn't seem to happen with my hardware, so you're probably on your own fixing it. I wonder which SD variant your player uses? (System > Debug > View Hardware Info).

okay, this is the microSD specification :

[microSD 1]
00000 Rev 1.0
Prod : 6/2009
Ser# : 0xB14DB9BB
M = 1B , 0 = SM
Blocks : 0x001E5C00
Speed : 50.0 Bit/s
Taac : 800 ms
Nsac : 25500 clk
R2W : *5
IRmax : 60..80 mA
RWmax : 60..80 mA

it's a generic 1GB MicroSD card, bundled with Nokia 5130 Xpress Music, <Made in Korea>

can you explain about IRmax & RWmax ?

thanks... hehhe

[saratoga]

Originally Posted by esgikey

okay, this is the microSD specification :

Thanks, but thats not what I was asking for. I don't really care about your SD card, I want to know which variant your player reports in that menu screen.

[esgikey]

Originally Posted by saratoga

Thanks, but thats not what I was asking for. I don't really care about your SD card, I want to know which variant your player reports in that menu screen.

haha,,, okay.. i'm sorry for that misunderstanding,

this is my clip+ variant :
AMSv2 variant 1

any other info that you need to know about my clip+ ?

i hope, that microSD information can also help what is the real problem, as you know, different chip on microSD result different power need. (Even microSD specification only tell about power consumption range, not the exact value)

thanks....

[FluffyWings]

I have retested with the 128kb ogg only files on the 2GB MicroSD only, just over 8 hours.

I am currently testing with my 16GB MicroSD only. I will post both files in about 2 days from now.

[Marvin the Martian]

Originally Posted by FluffyWings

I have retested with the 128kb ogg only files on the 2GB MicroSD only, just over 8 hours.

I am currently testing with my 16GB MicroSD only. I will post both files in about 2 days from now.

Something is definitely amiss....ogg vorbis files get great battery life on the Clip+ normally http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaRuntime

[nodirectionhome]

On my Clip+ with Rockbox, playing high-bitrate mp3s from both the internal memory and the card, I get more than 13 hours.

Haven't tested it in a while but I'm sure it hasn't changed in 6 months.

[saratoga]

Originally Posted by esgikey

haha,,, okay.. i'm sorry for that misunderstanding,

this is my clip+ variant :
AMSv2 variant 1

Ok so you've got the "new" SD controller, while mine has the "old" one. I should do a battery bench on mine, maybe the "new" variant behaves differently the the "old".