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Old 09-22-2010, 08:07 PM
Icky6 Icky6 is offline
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Default New appreciation for the zune hd

So I just got the new iPod touch, in fact I'm typing on it right now. It is quite frankly, amazing. The browser works much much better than the zune's. I've already read alice in wonderland with iBooks. Maps is very useful. The Facebook app is MILES smoother than Its counterpart on the zune hd. I'm playing final fantasy I. However, I do miss the focus that the zune hd has on music... Probably top on my list is the side button that brings up the swipable volume and track transport. It's very bothersome to have to look at he screen to change tracks, and the zune hd's solution to that is more innovative than I gave it credit for. Also, since music is not an app on the zune, it's easier to have that nice little shuffle all music button front and center on the main screen. The pins screen is also a helpful feature that the touch lacks.

I just wanted to give the zune team props for what is overall a better music experience. That said, I just can't recommend it over he touch... This hint just too much useful stuff in addition to being am ok music player. Here's to hoping a zune hd 2 keeps the great UI and adds support for the windows phone 7 app store... Seriously it would be wonderful to have some competition for the iPod touch!
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Old 09-22-2010, 08:46 PM
Stujoe Stujoe is offline
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If I thought I would use all of the other stuff on a Touch, I'd probably buy one. I have thought about buying one anyway just for apps and stuff but I just don't think I would use it so I have never gotten too excited about it. I have apps and a decent browser on my phone and I rarely use either on it. And I don;t think I have more than 1 or 2 apps even loaded on the Zune and never use them if I do. I guess I am just not an app guy. lol

And I know that, no matter what, they would have to come up with a Zune Pass deal for me to ever use another player for music.
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Old 09-22-2010, 09:13 PM
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Thats kind-of unfair comparing a 4th-gen iPod touch to a 1st-gen ZuneHD =(

So it took you buying an iPod touch to realize "Hey, ...uhh ZuneHD music experience, is...... freaking awesome dude!" ..ahha maybe not like that! But yeah, no one can beat the Zune Experience!

So Icky6 hows the movie like on the iPod touch retina vs the ZuneHD OLED?
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Old 09-22-2010, 09:44 PM
Icky6 Icky6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lem7 View Post
Thats kind-of unfair comparing a 4th-gen iPod touch to a 1st-gen ZuneHD =(

So it took you buying an iPod touch to realize "Hey, ...uhh ZuneHD music experience, is...... freaking awesome dude!" ..ahha maybe not like that! But yeah, no one can beat the Zune Experience!

So Icky6 hows the movie like on the iPod touch retina vs the ZuneHD OLED?
It's not unfair, I only compared things that the last generation iPod Touch had anyway. And while I do commend the Zune team for a pretty good job on the zune, I suppose my revelation is not so much that the Zune HD is some amazing device for music, but more that the iPod Touch should be *way* better than it is, and shame on Apple for basically abandoning it. The Zune HD is definitely better for music, but underwhelming as a whole. Anyway, with Apple's device, the fact that there is no way to change songs without looking at the screen is nonsense. But if you think about it, the Zune HD isn't all that special in that respect when compared to any previous Zune or non-touchscreen PMP... they can all switch tracks in your pocket.

Thanks for reminding me about the screen, though, I wanted to mention that. The resolution on the Touch is AMAZING. It makes viewing web pages, books, everything... so much easier. You don't have to zoom in on text just to read it and then do the cumbersome scrolling all over the place to read it. However - and this is a big however - the colors and viewing angles are terrible compared to the Zune HD. I mean, I'm not someone who got hung up on the OLED screen in the Zune HD, but when I turned on the Touch, I was just like "wow this looks like shit." Particularly what annoys me is how washed out the blacks are. I was actually pretty surprised they didn't use an OLED this time around, or at least the IPS panel used in the iPhone. That said, the resolution makes up for it, and I'm going to have a hard time using any phone/PMP that has less pixel density. To answer your question, movies are still probably better on the Touch, only because the Zune's smaller screen hurts them if they're not widescreen. And if they are widescreen, the Touch still makes for a slightly bigger picture, which I find to be a little more important than ultra nice color reproduction.

Anyway, even after having fell in love with the Touch, I'm tempted to keep my Zune HD... I think that's saying something.
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Old 09-23-2010, 08:48 AM
turdbogls turdbogls is offline
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i am really surprised to hear you say that the blacks are washed out on the touch's display. i know the iphone4 and touch's displays are different (obviously by looking at the comparrison pics of viewing angles) but at a near perpendicular viewing angle, the contrast should be pretty close to the same...this dissapoints me. even my OG droid has some amazing contrast...it almost makes me not miss the contrast of the HD's OLED display.

either way, i have a 1g touch that i use every day for internet radio (streaming from my Droids hotspot ) and the only thing that really draws me to the ipod touch line is the display (droids display is very sharp and crisp, and doesn't seem to have viewing angle problems or contrast problems of the touch 4) and the radiolicious app (its the only app that i use all the time that is not on android yet)

get me radiolicious on android and i could sell my touch and be OK with that.
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Old 09-23-2010, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lem7 View Post
Thats kind-of unfair comparing a 4th-gen iPod touch to a 1st-gen ZuneHD =(
To be fair, you can only compare what exists.

Quote:
i am really surprised to hear you say that the blacks are washed out on the touch's display. i know the iphone4 and touch's displays are different (obviously by looking at the comparrison pics of viewing angles) but at a near perpendicular viewing angle, the contrast should be pretty close to the same...this dissapoints me. even my OG droid has some amazing contrast...it almost makes me not miss the contrast of the HD's OLED display.
Displaymate did a comparison showing that the contrast ratios between the iPhone 4 and 3GS screens where drastically different. The contrast on the iPhone 3Gs' screen was somewhere around 100:1, which is pitiful. It wouldn't shock me one bit if the 4th gen touch has a similar (lack of) quality screen, hence the observable differences.

Also, the Droid's screen is well know for having among the best color reproduction on any mobile screen, so it doesn't shock me that the contrast difference between the Droid and Zune HD doesn't bother you much. Motorola's recent devices (Droid, Droid X, and Droid 2) have superb screens if you're a videophile. They're true 24-bit displays that handle RGB correctly (or near it), versus the 16-bit Pentile OLEDs that HTC uses, or the 18-bit garbage LCDs that Sony-Ericcsson (and now HTC) use.
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Old 09-23-2010, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lem7 View Post
So Icky6 hows the movie like on the iPod touch retina vs the ZuneHD OLED?
I encode some Blu-ray rips samples & DVD rips samples & i have test this on both Zune HD & iPod Touch 4G.

Quote:
Test 1: Colors & Black levels

The Zune HD OLED display show that it's has better colors & black levels when watching a video but the colors were too much in some parts on the video. for example the trees in the Zune HD were way too much green when the iPod Touch show natural green color. the iPod Touch did lack of true black levels that the Zune HD.

Winner: Tie because iPod Touch did show that natural colors is better but the Zune HD show that the black levels were better then the iPod Touch.
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Test 2: Brightness

Zune HD did show that it has great while level but the brightness level was low even in high brightness level. the iPod Touch show that using the stock brightness with auto brightness off was better then the Zune HD high brightness level.

Winner: iPod Touch, the Zune HD brightness had better white colors but the problem was that the brightness was not very high as the iPod Touch stock brightness level with auto brightness off.
Quote:
Test 3: Display

Zune HD has a 3.3" 16:9 480x272 OLED display when the iPod Touch has 3.5" 3:5 960x640 display. watching movies on the Zune HD is not great because of the 3.3" screen size but the iPod Touch has a 960x640 display which is great on a 3.5" display. i use a 1280x720p video on both device & it look better on the iPod Touch then the Zune HD thanks to it's Retina display which make things cleaner & sharper even on a 960x640 res. a 720p video look even better. when the Zune HD max screen res 480x272 which is 4.5x more pixels then the Zune HD.

Winner: Tie because both device has great display but each of them has it's pro's & con's.
Quote:
Test 4: Extra

iPod Touch has Netflix app which let you watch movies & tv shows all month long for $9 a month, also has a YouTube app & you can watch stream videos from the internet on your iPod Touch thanks to HTML5. both device support 720p video & need a dock so you can watch 720p videos on your HDTV screen.

Winner: iPod Touch, the Zune HD don't even have a YouTube app, no HTML 5 support & both device don't have Flash support too.
There you have it people for watching movies or tv show the iPod Touch is for you & it's even better thanks to Netflix app for the iPod Touch which make this a even better device then the Zune HD for watching movies.
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Last edited by BlindBandit; 09-23-2010 at 04:35 PM.
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  #8  
Old 09-23-2010, 05:15 PM
racerx_is_alive racerx_is_alive is offline
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Originally Posted by turdbogls View Post
i am really surprised to hear you say that the blacks are washed out on the touch's display.
Anandtech did a very thorough review of the latest gen iPod touch and the screen is just crap. It has a high resolution, but the contrast and viewing angles are awful.

And to top it off it is $230 for 8GB. You're paying a lot just to get some apps.
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Old 09-23-2010, 06:27 PM
Pandemic Pandemic is offline
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In regards to the viewing angle it is just fine. Unless you are looking at your iPod completely side ways there is no problem. I thought the pins were cool on the zune, but honestly you have a home screen with a bunch of icons on it. I find it just as fast to access stuff on the iPod touch as the zune HD. I'm also able to start music on the iPod pretty fast, but not as fast as the zune HD. Despite that the pros of the iPod definitely outweigh the few pros the zune has, sorry =(
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Old 09-23-2010, 06:37 PM
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And to top it off it is $230 for 8GB. You're paying a lot just to get some apps.
Well i got the 8gb because my music is only 1,273 songs which is very good for me & in apps i only use the ones i use everyday like Netflix, GameFly, Windows Live Messenger, Facebook, Twitter & so on.
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Old 09-23-2010, 06:56 PM
thygriever thygriever is offline
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Thanks for the comparisons!

I'm curious how the photo viewing looks and both devices in comparison to each other. I actually use photos the most on the Zune HD so is there any noticeable quality/sharpness difference with the new ipod touch/phone?
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Old 09-23-2010, 08:24 PM
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Now if I could only get the videos to play at full screen on my Droid @ I'd be so damn happy. I love my J3 for video, but these old eyes are starting to have probs w/smaller screens. The Droid 2 screen is slightly bigger, hence easier on my eyes. And the Zune HD I bought for my sis-in-law has the same sized screen.

Last edited by The DarkSide; 09-23-2010 at 08:42 PM.
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Old 09-23-2010, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandemic View Post
In regards to the viewing angle it is just fine. Unless you are looking at your iPod completely side ways there is no problem. I thought the pins were cool on the zune, but honestly you have a home screen with a bunch of icons on it. I find it just as fast to access stuff on the iPod touch as the zune HD. I'm also able to start music on the iPod pretty fast, but not as fast as the zune HD. Despite that the pros of the iPod definitely outweigh the few pros the zune has, sorry =(
Well I disagree...if you are into apps(everyone says they are but end up only using a couple) then that is great...however, as a music player the whole system from itunes to the touch blows in my opinion...I don't have a touch(although I play with my father in laws iphone often) but have had a bunch of ipods and really never thought much of them as good music players(although unlike many I always thought their sound was ok)...the zune hd takes it to another level imho with everything from the software to the zune pass to how music is displayed......
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Old 09-23-2010, 10:17 PM
Pandemic Pandemic is offline
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Originally Posted by lip View Post
Well I disagree...if you are into apps(everyone says they are but end up only using a couple) then that is great...however, as a music player the whole system from itunes to the touch blows in my opinion...I don't have a touch(although I play with my father in laws iphone often) but have had a bunch of ipods and really never thought much of them as good music players(although unlike many I always thought their sound was ok)...the zune hd takes it to another level imho with everything from the software to the zune pass to how music is displayed......
The zune pass is definitely great, unfortunately I never got one. I also agree that the zune software is much easier to use (plus wireless sync!), but displayed? Cmon, how often are you looking at the screen while listening to music? When I listen to music I don't look at the screen the whole time and think "wow that album art looks so good" =P Also, someone in the thread I started said the new iPod has a better sound chip or something, but I can't tell the difference.
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Old 09-23-2010, 10:29 PM
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lem7 lem7 is offline
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Originally Posted by Pandemic View Post
The zune pass is definitely great, unfortunately I never got one. I also agree that the zune software is much easier to use (plus wireless sync!), but displayed? Cmon, how often are you looking at the screen while listening to music? When I listen to music I don't look at the screen the whole time and think "wow that album art looks so good" =P Also, someone in the thread I started said the new iPod has a better sound chip or something, but I can't tell the difference.
ahha I always look at it, cant explain why I do it but I just do, very eye pleasing.

...but yeah, you need good ears and gear to truly know which sound quality is better.
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Old 09-23-2010, 10:36 PM
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The touch is just louder, that's all the real difference is. Both actually sound somewhat the same. The Z:HD has slightly recessed mids, but it still sounds great w/good IEM's. BOTH still need a custom EQ,..................I can dream, can't I?
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Old 09-23-2010, 11:47 PM
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The touch is just louder, that's all the real difference is. Both actually sound somewhat the same. The Z:HD has slightly recessed mids, but it still sounds great w/good IEM's. BOTH still need a custom EQ,..................I can dream, can't I?
The Zune HD really need a custom EQ but the iPod Touch don't really need custom EQ since it already sound great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thygriever View Post
Thanks for the comparisons!

I'm curious how the photo viewing looks and both devices in comparison to each other. I actually use photos the most on the Zune HD so is there any noticeable quality/sharpness difference with the new ipod touch/phone?
What i really love about the iPod Touch is the App it has to edit pictures on the go & it's call Adobe Photoshop Express. which is free by the way, i really love this App because i can take pictures in my iPod Touch 4G then use Adobe Photoshop Express App to fix the picture by adding more colors or adding more effect's. you can also upload it to Facebook or Twitter in the App or save it in your iPod Touch 4G or your computer.
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Old 09-24-2010, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by BlindBandit View Post
The Zune HD really need a custom EQ but the iPod Touch don't really need custom EQ since it already sound great.

A custom EQ inside an audio reproduction system is only useful for adjusting the frequency response of the player to the frequency response of the speakers/headphphones. It doesn't increase sound quality. Your statement hasn't got any meaning without including a permanent speaker/headphones reference.

e.g. iPod Touch with the "X" headphone set, sounds better than ZuneHD with the same "X" headphone set to most of the people....or ZuneHD with the "X" headphone set, sounds better than iPod Touch with the same "X" headphone set to most of the people.


It seems that most of the people don't know anything about the use of an eq...maybe this is the reason that Microsoft and Apple don't have an EQ inside their players...it's an option that can make everything sound worst in the hands of the wrong people.
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Old 09-24-2010, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuniq View Post
snip
In a technical sense, you're absolutely right. However, some people just prefer a custom EQ to tweak how it sounds. Audio quality will always ultimately fall into being subjective. For instance, Blindbandit feels that the Zune HD's quality is ideal, so he doesn't need to tweak it. That won't be true of the next person. I don't use EQ settings on any device. I simply listen to it as the artist intended, as most devices today sans EQ sound about the same.

But yes, you are technically right. But, that's going to go over the average person's head (just like all of my technical explanations).
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Old 09-24-2010, 11:48 AM
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Marvin the Martian Marvin the Martian is offline
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Quote:
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A custom EQ inside an audio reproduction system is only useful for adjusting the frequency response of the player to the frequency response of the speakers/headphphones. It doesn't increase sound quality. *snip*
For the most part, I think you are correct here.

To your conclusion, I would add the frequency range that various peoples' ears can hear, though....for example, my Grado headphones, which can sound unbearably bright to many people, for my ears, where I have lost some upper range hearing response, they are a revelation.

On the flip side, my Sennheiser PX100's, I have to boost some frequencies with them, to suit my hearing.....yet to many people, they would sound just right.

So you are correct that the customizable EQ does not increase sound quality, in the strictest sense of reproducing the sound waves exactly as intended by the artist and sound engineers....but you could perhaps say that it can increase subjective sound quality.
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