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Old 08-29-2010, 09:22 AM
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Default Embedded MP3 album art not working for MTP-transferred files

Windows XP SP3, WMP11 installed. I've tried drag'n'drop via Windows Explorer, tried transferring via J. River Media Center, Songbird, MusicBee. I've tagged my files with Tag&Rename, then tried the same re-tagged with MP3Tag. Embedded album art simply doesn't show up on the J3 with MP3s transferred via MTP. Transferring the files back from the J3 to my PC shows that the album art is still embedded. Transferring the same files to the J3 in MSC mode gives no issues, album art works fine.

Does anyone know what might be the issue here, or how to fix this? Seems more like an issue with the J3 than with MTP. (I'm only trying that MTP junk because of Last.fm scrobbling via QTScrobbler, because MSC transferred MP3s have no duration info and won't scrobble without manual editing.)
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Old 08-29-2010, 10:36 AM
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huh, obviously you have tried everything [and more] that I could have thought of..

Can only suggest 3 more things to try:
- gave Winamp a shot?
- try various standard sizes of embedded album art?
- could making your mp3 files read-only have any positive impact here?

I know the last one seems very unlikely, but I have been doing the read-only thing on all my music files for many many years and have never encountered any of the various tagging/art issues people report here under MTP. But as you say, if indeed it is an issue with the J3, not sure how to proceed...
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Old 08-29-2010, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by lestatar View Post
huh, obviously you have tried everything [and more] that I could have thought of..

Can only suggest 3 more things to try:
- gave Winamp a shot?
- try various standard sizes of embedded album art?
- could making your mp3 files read-only have any positive impact here?

I know the last one seems very unlikely, but I have been doing the read-only thing on all my music files for many many years and have never encountered any of the various tagging/art issues people report here under MTP. But as you say, if indeed it is an issue with the J3, not sure how to proceed...
I think it has to be the J3....embedded art works on Sony players under MTP, after all.
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Old 08-29-2010, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Marvin the Martian View Post
I think it has to be the J3....embedded art works on Sony players under MTP, after all.
But isn't this odd? The J3 is a contender for overall best of breed DAP. It is also one of the newest models out there - and support for embedded art has been around since the Dark Ages [you know what I mean]...Hell, my Zen V+ not only supports embedded art, but also has zero problems with image sizes up to 600x600 in my case.

I would be very surprised if the problem is indeed with the J3 device itself.
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Old 08-29-2010, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by lestatar View Post
... I would be very surprised if the problem is indeed with the J3 device itself.
Gomez it wouldn't surprise me knowing Cowon's typical firmware issues/bugs
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Old 08-29-2010, 10:56 AM
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One more reason to use MSC, I guess. Easy for me to say though, as I am not a Last.fm user, so I have no need to scrobble.
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  #7  
Old 08-29-2010, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin the Martian View Post
I think it has to be the J3....embedded art works on Sony players under MTP, after all.
You're right my own Sony doesn't care about the protocol and extract the embedded image well too.
MTP provides a dedicated way to associate an album art to an album track set. This is called the Representative Sample. Maybe your J3 only rely on this in MTP mode and don't use embedded images in that case. But I believe that WMP does handle the task of creating representative samples well. By the way it works on an album basis not per individual file logic, I believe.
Does WMP create ".alb" files when you transfer music?
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Old 08-29-2010, 03:50 PM
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How are the files numbered? If you have fractions ie 1/12, 2/12 ... Then the wonderful J3 will not show the art for that file and random other files on the device.
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Old 08-29-2010, 04:03 PM
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Meetooman: Album art via cover.jpg in a folder works for MTP-transferred files, no need for .alb files (which have usually awful low conversion quality, as I noticed). Only embedded album art doesn't show up on the J3, even if it's in the files.

Xul: No fractions in my track tags, just regular 01, 02, etc. Also, for MSC-transferred files all is fine, no issues at all.
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Old 08-30-2010, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfkt View Post
Meetooman: Album art via cover.jpg in a folder works for MTP-transferred files, no need for .alb files (which have usually awful low conversion quality, as I noticed). Only embedded album art doesn't show up on the J3, even if it's in the files.
So it seems that the firmware has to be completed. Someone has to file a bug.
You say that samples are converted (downsized?), I have never realised that but I have only tried 150 to 300px images for now and on a small screen. I will test the limits/behavior on my player.
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  #11  
Old 08-30-2010, 01:28 PM
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Sorry, I should have clarified - I used J. River for transfer, which created some tiny .alb files, not WMP. Probably it can be set to something bigger, but that's not a practice I will continue to do anyways - since MTP is way more hassle than it's worth it for my uses. If Cowon fixed that bug, it would be easier.
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  #12  
Old 08-30-2010, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfkt View Post
Sorry, I should have clarified - I used J. River for transfer, which created some tiny .alb files, not WMP. Probably it can be set to something bigger, but that's not a practice I will continue to do anyways - since MTP is way more hassle than it's worth it for my uses. If Cowon fixed that bug, it would be easier.
I suppose the software select a "one size fits all players". I have read in a documentation that some players are not comfortable with more than 20KB files. Still I am very fond of MTP, contrary to most people I believe that's a clever way to manage files and metadata on a player.
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Old 08-30-2010, 03:35 PM
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In MSC mode, nothing is an issue. 2000x2000px embedded art or cover.jpg works just fine. Gawd, I hate MTP...
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Old 08-30-2010, 06:09 PM
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Blame Cowon for forgetting the embedded image display ! There is nothing on the MTP protocol against this function.
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Old 08-30-2010, 06:11 PM
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I can't be the first one to notice that... does no one else use MTP with that thing? (I guess not, since there's usually no need for it. ) In the meantime, I noticed the same behavior on the S9. The S9 has been out for years - I can't be the only one with that issue.
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  #16  
Old 09-01-2010, 11:07 PM
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I don't think there are a lot of people able to insert a cover art picture inside music files with confidence.
Myself I wrote my scripts to do it with mp3, flac and aac files using my scans and my own encoded files. I believe that when you depend on WMP and other PC media players, you are never sure of what's going on.
You select a song and see the cover, but you can't say whether the image is from the software cache, a library folder/cover file, or if it is embedded.

If you are the first to complain, it must be because people caring for images must have use the folder.jpg solution instead of putting 2000x2000px images inside an mp3, or because they use ogg-vorbis or don't know flac files can host images too.
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Old 09-02-2010, 07:11 AM
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No really sure I catch your drift. MP3Tag, Tag&Rename, and others are perfectly capable of doing the job. I know embedded album art works with Sony, Samsung and other MTP players, but this is about the J3 (and S9) - I assume you're just talking in general, not specifically about these players. I'm not using WMP or any other media player - if you read my first post, I tried quite a few other approaches, but the results were always the same.

Not sure what you were insinuating with the remark about 2000x2000px images as well - it was just an example of what works in MSC mode, of course I don't use that large images normally. Using cover.jpg's is not feasible when I just drop a few single tracks from different albums on the player, tracks that aren't in separate folders - that's actually the major annoyance for me in this case. By the way, same goes for FLAC - embedded art works for MSC, but not for MTP. Not that I use FLAC on the go, just tested it.

---

Seems really nobody has a) issues with MTP transferred MP3s or b) doesn't care about it or c) nobody uses MTP with the J3/S9. I'm a bit surprised that nobody has any real answer to that issue - or how it seems, nobody even had that issue. I would have thought at least a few people would chime in who got the same results as me.

To anyone who owns a J3 and tried embedded album art for MP3s via MTP transfer - a quick "it works for me" or "it doesn't work for me either" shout would be very helpful. Thanks!
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  #18  
Old 09-02-2010, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfkt View Post
No really sure I catch your drift. MP3Tag, Tag&Rename, and others are perfectly capable of doing the job. I know embedded album art works with Sony, Samsung and other MTP players, but this is about the J3 (and S9) - I assume you're just talking in general, not specifically about these players. I'm not using WMP or any other media player - if you read my first post, I tried quite a few other approaches, but the results were always the same.
I don't talk about players. I talk about the average user that you are not. Of course you can use tagging software to do a lot of things. I am certain that most people are afraid of tagging software. I am very into computing and my experience with the one called Easytag (the Linux compatible one) is not great at all.

Quote:
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Not sure what you were insinuating with the remark about 2000x2000px images as well - it was just an example of what works in MSC mode, of course I don't use that large images normally.
I just point that using big images can lead users to avoid embbeding. The cover.png/folder.jpg is a good solution for large scan when you don't want to duplicate the very big image inside 18 music files for an album.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfkt View Post
Using cover.jpg's is not feasible when I just drop a few single tracks from different albums on the player, tracks that aren't in separate folders - that's actually the major annoyance for me in this case. By the way, same goes for FLAC - embedded art works for MSC, but not for MTP. Not that I use FLAC on the go, just tested it.
It's a problem when you enable different ways to do things: decide which one should take precedence. The folder.jpg can be a backup for some people and the main solution for others. It seems that it is the cross protocol solution for many players.

Quote:
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Seems really nobody has a) issues with MTP transferred MP3s or b) doesn't care about it or c) nobody uses MTP with the J3/S9. I'm a bit surprised that nobody has any real answer to that issue - or how it seems, nobody even had that issue. I would have thought at least a few people would chime in who got the same results as me.
I'm sorry that nobody has already shared it's own experience, but what I try to say where you look for insinuations (I don't know why) is that Cowon must have made some technical choices for the average user.

MSC = no dedicated software for transfer ==> The only right way to associate an image is embedding.

MTP = a software handle the linkage ==> MTP helps linking the Sample to the file whatever its location on the device.

With a Sony, you can always have the embbeded cover, whatever the protocol MSC/MTP. But when you use the MTP album with a different image than the embbeded one do you know which image will show?

In fact which one should be shown then? The embbeded according to one, the MTP Sample for another person! Maybe that's why Cowon made a choice not to mix those solutions.

As a little software developer myself, I also know that you make something for people to use and when you let it in their hands you discover that they are not behaving the way you thought.

So consider that it is possible that you are not using your J3 the way they intend you to do so.
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Old 09-16-2010, 02:00 PM
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Repost/bump: To anyone who owns a J3 and tried embedded album art for MP3s via MTP transfer - a quick "it works for me" or "it doesn't work for me either" shout would be very helpful. Thanks!
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Old 09-16-2010, 02:51 PM
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I tried it, and I confirm your problematic results.

It doesn't work for me either.
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