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  #481  
Old 12-08-2010, 12:36 PM
Pennhaven Pennhaven is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Confispect View Post
Hmmm before I start I want to remind you remember
Maybe starting out just a bit condescending, aren't you?

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THE Pana plays whats their/not. If you song doesn't have bass it won't if it does....it does.
So you believe these phones have 100% perfectly accurate bass response? Down to what frequency, I wonder? You don't think it's possible that they ever attenuate what is actually "their" in the recording, at any frequency?

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EQ-wise same thing almost about 1 or two db in the low area -where depends on player or software-
You have much better ears than I do if you can detect a 1 db difference.

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Crap in crap out sucks.
So don't listen to crap.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the sound of these headphones overall. But in my opinion their reproduction of low bass is somewhat lacking. I'm not the first person to say so either.

Be interesting to hear some other opinions.

Last edited by Pennhaven; 12-08-2010 at 12:54 PM.
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  #482  
Old 12-08-2010, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Pennhaven View Post
Maybe starting out just a bit condescending, aren't you?

maybe/dunno/don't care

So you believe these phones have 100% perfectly accurate bass response? Down to what frequency, I wonder? You don't think it's possible that they ever attenuate what is actually "their" in the recording, at any frequency?

Nothing is 100% perfect.

You have much better ears than I do if you can detect a 1 db difference.

Don't understand your response, you asked what other people are doing EQ/Tone controls I responded 1db or TWO up in the low area....

So don't listen to crap. Agreed, which is kinda what I was implying to you...

Don't get me wrong, I really like the sound of these headphones overall. But in my opinion their reproduction of low bass is somewhat lacking. I'm not the first person to say so either.

Intersting.

Be interesting to hear some other opinions.
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Last edited by Confispect; 12-08-2010 at 01:34 PM.
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  #483  
Old 12-08-2010, 02:06 PM
Pennhaven Pennhaven is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Confispect View Post
Don't understand your response, you asked what other people are doing EQ/Tone controls I responded 1db or TWO up in the low area....
My point was that I don't think most people would notice a one (or even two db) increase. Of course it couldn't hurt, it just probably wouldn't be detectable to 90% of people.

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So don't listen to crap. Agreed, which is kinda what I was implying to you...
...which was what I inferred, and did not appreciate, thus the response.
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  #484  
Old 12-08-2010, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennhaven View Post
My point was that I don't think most people would notice a one (or even two db) increase. Of course it couldn't hurt, it just probably wouldn't be detectable to 90% of people.

Interesting


...which was what I inferred, and did not appreciate, thus the response.

Then you just agreed with me, perfect.

Also adding to this Eq wise I drop about 3db in the mid area, and add a 'unnoticeable' 2db in the bass area. Very unnoticeable I usually strap on extra ears to hear it.
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  #485  
Old 12-13-2010, 10:39 AM
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For burning in these phones, is there any chance of damaging the drivers if you leave them plugged into a source playing music at a reasonable volume for a few days straight?
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  #486  
Old 12-13-2010, 10:55 AM
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They should be fine with music at normal listening volume. Just don't use pink noise or similar harsh sounds, that's not only dangerous, but also rather useless (since the diaphragm doesn't really move in relevant ways with noise, it's more of a jitter than a "workout").
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  #487  
Old 12-13-2010, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Confispect View Post
Hmmm before I start I want to remind you remember THE Pana plays whats their/not. If you song doesn't have bass it won't if it does....it does. I get pissed all the time because my Pana 'lack' bass. Then a gigantic bass comes along and I get to toe tapping. Ever notice how this thing realistically can tackle any type of drum sound? Seriously I heard all types of DIFFERENT drums where as other IEMS most of the time it sounds like one kick.

EQ-wise same thing almost about 1 or two db in the low area -where depends on player or software- Also one thing I noticed dropping out instead of adding works as well or better. For instance on the songs the Pana's WON'T give you bass drop the treble. It lets the bass seap thru. Crap in crap out sucks.
Late on this, but 100% with Confispect here - the Panas are very revealing of the source material. Feed them crappy, low quality rips and you will get the same from the Panas. In tech, the concept is garbage in/garbage out.

Feed them quality source material and the Panas absolutely shine IMO.

As for my own EQ on my DAPs using the Panas - nearly flat, believe it or not. The sibilance some observe does not trouble me in the least [i kinda like that sort of signature]. What I do do is add a touch of bass on all my players. That's it.

dfkt and others have turned me into a closet basshead

The Panas ain't perfect - but IMO, and especially for what I paid, extremely great IEMs - by far the "best" pair I have ever heard.
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  #488  
Old 12-13-2010, 10:16 PM
keiiferrer keiiferrer is offline
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Maybe this has been said before (didn't want to read the whole thread), but the panas do tend to hiss a lot with a sony walkman x (apparently it's sony's x fault, but i never noticed it was so bad till i got the panas), regardless of that, they sound great, and no audible hiss whatsoever on an old a808, or on an s638
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  #489  
Old 12-14-2010, 02:05 PM
Pennhaven Pennhaven is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lestatar View Post
Late on this, but 100% with Confispect here - the Panas are very revealing of the source material. Feed them crappy, low quality rips and you will get the same from the Panas. In tech, the concept is garbage in/garbage out.

Feed them quality source material and the Panas absolutely shine IMO.

As for my own EQ on my DAPs using the Panas - nearly flat, believe it or not. The sibilance some observe does not trouble me in the least [i kinda like that sort of signature]. What I do do is add a touch of bass on all my players. That's it.

dfkt and others have turned me into a closet basshead

The Panas ain't perfect - but IMO, and especially for what I paid, extremely great IEMs - by far the "best" pair I have ever heard.
Appreciate your input Les. It seems though that somehow the main point of my post is being overshadowed and/or misinterpreted (again).

Let me be absolutely clear. I also like these phones very much. And, I agree that of course any quality headphone, or other component, is going to reveal flaws in the source material. But I think that's far beside the point of my original post.

It seems to me it was Confispect's reply that led us in this unproductive direction. It didn't help, I suppose, that I couldn't let it go, annoyed as I was by his tone and implication that lousy source material was the issue. (If only I listened to better recordings I'd have no reason to look for any improvement in my experience with these headphones.) It was just not a cool or constructive way to respond to what I asked, IMO.

All I wanted to do here was compare notes and see if anyone else was tweaking the equalizer to get a little more accurate bottom end, not to start a debate on whether these phones are deficient, or to be "schooled" by anyone on the value of listening to higher quality material, which should already be obvious.

So now returning to that intent. Finally.

After I my earlier posts, I brushed up on my understanding of how the Rockbox parametric equalizer works and I did a little more listening and tweaking.

Since the bottom band of the Rockbox equalizer is a low shelf filter, I realized that setting it as I did initially, to boost at 50Hz, would only affect response from 50 down. (This band is not a peaking filter, like the middle three bands of the equalizer are. Those boost response in an envelope above and below the target frequency.)

I figured since the response curve dfkt posted tailed down steeply in that area, adding boost only below 50Hz might actually have little effect. Possibly the phones just can't drive those frequencies effectively, even with a boost from an equalizer. Also just how much content is actually there below 50Hz, even in a well made recording? Probably not much typically, though it would depend on the instruments and music.

So to get closer to the sound I was searching for I raised the low band frequency to 70Hz and eased the boost to +4db. This, along with maintaining the +2db with the 200Hz peaking filter, now provides what I think is a more natural sounding bass response.

FWIW, I am making my primary comparison listening to a very well recorded album. It was actually engineered by the same person who mixed the sound when I heard this band in concert two months ago. What I am trying to do is recreate, as closely as I can, the same sound from a live recording as I actually heard in person. And these phones are very, very good at recreating that aural experience.

I am just trying to make them a bit better, not put them down!
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  #490  
Old 12-14-2010, 03:18 PM
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Hmmm we were arguing and my tone could be heard thru the internet, superb
I need to have conversations like this more often hahahaha. Get me point across

Anyhow 'assholeness' aside hiss wise that Sony is full of it my friend is currently trying to sell his. Says he hates his 'hiss'.
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  #491  
Old 12-15-2010, 12:10 AM
keiiferrer keiiferrer is offline
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yeah... i bought the panas because i read dfkt review and they seemed pretty good to me (and they are to me, now that i've been listening to them), but i can't bear to use them on my sony x because the hiss distracts me way too much... luckily they arrived before i bought another sony dap (i was about to buy an a847)... the funny part is that with my older sony daps.. no hiss at all... so the s-master amplifier most likely only amplifies the hiss xD
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  #492  
Old 12-15-2010, 06:31 AM
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Yes, the Sony hisses like hell, unfortunately. Using an impedance adapter or an inline volume control should help with sensitive phones.
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  #493  
Old 12-15-2010, 07:31 AM
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^ I've been looking for an impedance adapter.

I found this on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ETYMOTIC-ER4P-ER...-/290372905689

Is there anything cheaper available?
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  #494  
Old 12-15-2010, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esanthosh View Post
^ I've been looking for an impedance adapter.

I found this on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ETYMOTIC-ER4P-ER...-/290372905689

Is there anything cheaper available?

Probably not, check craigslist they usually have cheap items. 18$ is a pretty good price by the way.
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  #495  
Old 12-15-2010, 11:43 AM
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I bought two adapters from Awwan so far. He's a very friendly and responsive guy, and he can do any custom combinations of resistors one wishes to have. Well worth the 18 bucks, since it's really fiddly trying to create a similar adapter at home.

An additional ~20-30 Ohm should be enough to get rid of the Sony's hiss, I would think. The standard 75 Ohm might make the phones too quiet.
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  #496  
Old 12-15-2010, 05:39 PM
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dfkt, since you seem to have tested a lot of iems maybe you can help me with something, have you tried the shure se530? if yes, how do they stack up against the panas? someone around my area offered me a pair of those and i wanted another opinion before making a decision
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  #497  
Old 12-16-2010, 06:14 AM
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Yeah, I've had the SE530 for years. They're very different sounding compared to the HJE900. While the HJE900 has forward treble, the SE530 have recessed, rolled off treble, and their bass doesn't extend that low either. Partly because of those characteristics, they have some of the best midrange that can be found in IEMs. Soundstage is better on the HJE. The SE530's isolation is very good, much higher than the HJE. The SE530's build quality is not that great, no match for the HJE in that aspect.
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  #498  
Old 12-16-2010, 06:31 AM
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Just to add, although I liked the se530's I hated the se530's cable design. I haven't tried the new design but the original cable sucked in more ways than one: the Y connector, overall length, thickness, weight (which made mine occasionally disconnect at the Y) and although my cable never cracked at the housing connection I did read of many that did. Eventually I sold mine ...
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  #499  
Old 12-16-2010, 03:34 PM
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I really like the way these sound, except for the fact that they hiss very noticably with my Cowon J3. I've tried different recordings and different EQ settings, but it's still there and very noticable during quiet bits/songs.

I know someone else has mentioned in here having no hiss with these and a J3. Could it be that that person doesn't hear it for some reason? Or is my pair possibly defective?
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  #500  
Old 12-16-2010, 10:10 PM
keiiferrer keiiferrer is offline
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Quote:
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Yeah, I've had the SE530 for years. They're very different sounding compared to the HJE900. While the HJE900 has forward treble, the SE530 have recessed, rolled off treble, and their bass doesn't extend that low either. Partly because of those characteristics, they have some of the best midrange that can be found in IEMs. Soundstage is better on the HJE. The SE530's isolation is very good, much higher than the HJE. The SE530's build quality is not that great, no match for the HJE in that aspect.
thanks for the comparison, guess i'll just stick with my panas for the time being then... i prefer a more balanced sound (without much roll off)
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