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  #21  
Old 07-11-2010, 12:30 PM
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dfkt dfkt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phosphorique View Post
Try the Zen X-fi Style which can play FLAC.

I have compared my Zen Vision M 30gb which is the BEST sound quality i have ever heard from any mp3 player to the Zen X-fi Style.

I used the same song with WAV 1411kbps on vision m and FLAC on x-fi style through my high-end earphones.. Jerry Harvey's JH16 Pro. They sounded pretty much similar.
It doesn't matter if you use WAV or FLAC, or high quality LAME MP3, or Vorbis - they all should produce equally transparent results on a quality MP3 player. Except when the decoder on said players is broken, which really shouldn't happen.

Multi-armature phones with crossovers are incredibly hard to drive for most MP3 players, differences with those should be way more obvious than with average single dynamic driver phones. Most MP3 players usually crap out and fail driving anything like that properly.

For example, here's a good player, the Sansa Clip+, trying to drive several multi-armature phones - and here's a bad player, the Hifiman HM-801, trying to do the same.

I wish I had measurements for any Creative players, but what you're saying - the old ZV:M and the new X-Fi sounding the same - is a rather good sign already.
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  #22  
Old 07-11-2010, 01:20 PM
bobgure bobgure is offline
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Quote:
For example, here's a good player, the Sansa Clip+, trying to drive several multi-armature phones - and here's a bad player, the Hifiman HM-801, trying to do the same.
I do my side by side comparisons with the player(s) going through a Harmon Kardon receiver with Polk floor standing speakers. I hardly use my players through headphones.
I've also found that a 'good' player (like my VisionM) will sound good regardless of the bitrate of the mp3.
An inferior player( like the 'Zen' or ZenV+), no matter how long I obsessively tweak the settings will not surpass it's baseline.

I can hear the difference immediately. Clarity, presence, 'body'....

Analog, I can understand. But digital sound conversion in these contraptions baffles me.
Do hard drive players intrinsically have better reproduction than flash based ?
I think Creative 'lost it' after they discontinued the Vision M.
There's no reason why they couldn't have followed up with a smaller player with the same audio quality with 32GB.
No?
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  #23  
Old 07-11-2010, 03:46 PM
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Brett_val Brett_val is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobgure View Post
Do hard drive players intrinsically have better reproduction than flash based ?
I think Creative 'lost it' after they discontinued the Vision M.
There's no reason why they couldn't have followed up with a smaller player with the same audio quality with 32GB.
No?
I don't think the storage medium has anything to do with sound quality.

But yeah I think a lot of other members share your opinion that Creative doesn't have the quality anymore they once had.

I have an X-Fi2 and I can't complain though. I don't have my previous Zens anymore so I can't compare it, but I'm very happy with what I have now.
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  #24  
Old 07-11-2010, 08:18 PM
bobgure bobgure is offline
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Brett,
Does the X-Fi have an custom EQ that can actually make significant changes? Especially in the high frequency end. That's what the Zen really lacks...to bring out details and definition
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  #25  
Old 07-11-2010, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobgure View Post
Brett,
Does the X-Fi have an custom EQ that can actually make significant changes? Especially in the high frequency end. That's what the Zen really lacks...to bring out details and definition
The Zen does have a Custom EQ setting. Look in main menu System>Audio Settings>EQ>Custom EQ
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  #26  
Old 07-11-2010, 10:13 PM
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I agree the ZEN doesn't sound amazing, I've no problems with the EQ though. I've seen the light and now I have a Cowon which has pretty much replaced the ZEN (I had to send the i7 back twice to get it fixed, but it sounds great).

I'm sorry you don't like your new ZEN, I still manage to enjoy mine, but look on the bright side, at least you didn't buy a $800 DAP which doesn't perform as well as the cheap clip+.
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  #27  
Old 07-11-2010, 11:27 PM
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Yeah I'm using the custom EQ to bring back the high frequencies that I feel are lost because of the bassy IEMs it comes with.
It has a 5-band EQ for 80 Hz, 250 Hz, 1 KHz, 4 KHz, and 13 Khz
and my settings are 1, -2, 3, 7, 7 right now.

I think it works very well to bring back the clarity, although I've read around here that it's not the best EQ.
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  #28  
Old 08-04-2010, 08:03 AM
phosphorique phosphorique is offline
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I think you have slightly misinterpreted my point there. Yes, I definitely agree that the X-fi Crystallizer and all that is bullshit. On Creative players, do not use any EQ or sound enhancement settings whatsoever.

Creative players have been known to reproduce sound as close to the original source file as possible. They have been the best sounding amongst all mp3 players i have ever heard.

I auditioned the Zen X-fi Style at the store and highly recommend getting one of those because it supports FLAC format. I certainly do not advocate the use of the x-fi or the EQ functions in that player. It sounds perfect on its own.

The only issue I am not sure about is the reliability of the Zen X-fi Style. Creative has always been known for its durability(or rather the lack of it).

Hence, I can only say that if you like the Vision M, you wont go wrong with the Zen X-fi Style.
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  #29  
Old 08-08-2010, 08:30 PM
skybluedream skybluedream is offline
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If you didn't like the sound produced by the "ZEN"

I'm not sure you will like any Creative player made after the Vision:M & Vision:W & their newer stuff...

Basically all Creative players after & since "ZEN" use the Sigmatel SoC "STMP 37xx" series (XFi, XFi2, Style XFi etc...)

Vision:M & Vision:W use the Texas Instruments SoC.

I've owned "ZEN" "Zen X-Fi2"...

I also have a Vision:M & Vision:W.

In my opinion the sound of the "ZEN" isn't as bassy as Vision:M....but in terms of treble & clarity...it beats the pants off the Vision:M

Then again I don't have high end IEM's just your Senn's CX-300, EP-630, SoundMagic PL-30's.

With all of them...ZEN sounded much better than the Vision:M...though it wasn't as loud...but I like my ear's so I don't push it that much lol.

And...

ZEN sounds exactly the same as the X-Fi2 on stock.

If you turn on the Crystaliser in X-Fi2...it increases the treble rebound basically...if that's how you put it.

So if your more into Bass....don't look at Creative anymore...try something else eg. Samsung.

Just my thoughts.
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