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  #41  
Old 06-27-2010, 12:46 AM
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Just as a comparison, here is my 8GB Corsair Flash Voyager USB drive test result:



It reads a lot faster than it writes.
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  #42  
Old 06-27-2010, 03:37 AM
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@NBC, as promised, ATTO results: See the description for each screengrab...Not as fast as you, but I leave you to interpret the results.

Done on a WinXP Pro SP2 HP xv6200 Workstation, 4GB RAM...





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  #43  
Old 06-27-2010, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lestatar View Post
@NBC, as promised, ATTO results: See the description for each screengrab...Not as fast as you, but I leave you to interpret the results.

Done on a WinXP Pro SP2 HP xv6200 Workstation, 4GB RAM...

[IMG.]http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx41/lestatar/ATTO_Sandisk16GBMicroSDHC_OnFuzeV2.jpg[/IMG]



[IMG.]http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx41/lestatar/ATTO_Sandisk16GBMicroSDHC_OnSandisk.jpg[/IMG]

The read speed on that class two is spectacular when attached to an external reader. As for the Fuze, it seems it's built-in writer is more limited than the J3.

Thanks for running the benchmarks. It's interesting to compare results.
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  #44  
Old 06-27-2010, 01:31 PM
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No worries, NBC...Always happy to provide some "empirical" data... :-)
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  #45  
Old 07-01-2010, 03:17 AM
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This may sound TOO obvious, but I found some decent deals from Google's shopping results...of course they're mostly from Amazon anyways. It is likely that these could be fake, as the main screenshot for most of these don't show the serial....however, that's the case even on the official Sandisk site: http://www.sandisk.com/products/mobi...disk-microsdhc

In fact, one of the ones I found actually has that same picture showing the difference between real and fake as posted in this thread (16GB) : http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-microS...7971307&sr=8-1

Another 16GB for about $30 http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-microS...7971307&sr=8-5

Technically, you could buy two 8GBS for $28 from the shame merchant and only pay one shipping fee.....scratch that....this one has a shipping fee while the other two don't.... so I guess you would be paying more for two http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-microS...971307&sr=8-14

Might work if one or more of your genres/collections didn't exceed 8GB.
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  #46  
Old 07-01-2010, 08:20 PM
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I purchased my 32GB card last week through Amazon Marketplace, from one of their "sellers" who apparently had just gotten started. Price was an amazing $100, which is why I jumped.

Got email advice that it shipped on Tuesday, which is a relief. Credit card now charged, correctly priced as sold.

Just checked Amazon again right now, and he's still selling the card... but at a new increased price of $145. Still the lowest available, but clearly he's responding to demand.

I also bought an inexpensive 12-in-1 USB 2.0 reader/writer which can handle this microSD card (my computer only supports standard SD cards) at high speed.
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  #47  
Old 07-03-2010, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Need Balance Control View Post
Here is--supposedly--one way to tell a fake from a genuine one Sandisk

Ok, now I'm concerned.

I just today received the 32GB microSDHC SanDisk I ordered last Sunday through Amazon Marketplace. It was a first-time seller, and the price of $100 was too good to pass up. The item is still listed for sale, but price has gone up to $145, which is more in line with the other sellers offering the item.

Anyway, I have no such "made in China" identification on the chip where your picture says it should be.

Also, the chip came in a plastic case but it was not hermetically sealed (by the factory). I don't know if that is significant, but it certainly made my eyes open wide.

There was also a microSD->SD adapter included, but when I used it (with the microSDHC card inserted) in my computer's card reader it wouldn't work. Same if I put the two pieces in the portable USB 12-in-1 card reader... also either didn't work or seemed to be causing I/O error.

However when I put the microSDHC card by itself into the 12-in-1 card reader it worked perfectly. In fact, Win7 offered to do a "chkdisk" (I'm guessing) and when I gave it the go-ahead found no problems.

Chip does appear to have 32GB capacity. I'm currently in the process of trying to write just under 32GB to it (through the microSDHC card inserted into the proper slog on the 12-in-1 reader/writer plugged into a USB port). Seems to be going fine.

I still don't have my Cowon J3 yet (should arrive tomorrow), but for now this 32GB card seems ok... except that it does NOT have the markings you alerted to, and did NOT come "factory sealed".

Should I be concerned?
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  #48  
Old 07-03-2010, 02:32 AM
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Well, looks like the 32GB microSDHC card is perfectly fine.

The non-sealed plastic case seems to have some wear-and-tear, and I'd speculate it wasn't truly absolutely factory-sealed brand new. But it seems to be working just fine. I finally canceled it after copying about 7GB, after running almost an hour.

Of course I've not ever tried to load 32GB of data onto a Class 2 (2MB/s) drive... but it's not speedy. Windows shows 2MB/s write rate which is right. HD Tach shows a straight 18.4MB read speed throughout the entire 33.5GB (as it calculates capacity, I guess), average access time .8ms.

I tried playing MP3s that I'd copied to the card using Winamp, and it works 100% fine.

So I guess I'm fine. Fortunately I'd bought that 12-in-1 reader/writer.

Case closed. Hopefully the J3 arrives tomorrow.

I'm experimenting with installing "cover art" inside the ID3v2 tag data, using each album art JPG (25KB - 125KB) from my CD database and storing that JPG into each MP3 track created from that CD, using MP3TAG. I think I read that the J3 supports this imbedded cover art, and I'd like to make use of that nice feature when playing music. I've already installed the very slick "TOASTER" track change plugin into Winamp, which displays the imbedded cover art as well.

Very excited...
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  #49  
Old 07-03-2010, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post
Well, looks like the 32GB microSDHC card is perfectly fine.

The non-sealed plastic case seems to have some wear-and-tear, and I'd speculate it wasn't truly absolutely factory-sealed brand new. But it seems to be working just fine. I finally canceled it after copying about 7GB, after running almost an hour.
DSperber, it's your card so you will do with it as you please, but might I suggest that you do actually format--low level format--the 32gb card a few times and copy a large amount of data, at least 16gb+, preferably 32GB, of data onto the card. You should really test out the card to see if it can actually store 32GB (or 30GB formatted) before you conclude everything is fine.

It's better to be safe than sorry.

If in the end, if everything works for you, then you got yourself an awesome deal for a 32GB card.
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  #50  
Old 07-03-2010, 06:44 PM
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Fake cards are good at pretending lots of data have been written to them. The problem usually shows up when trying to read data off the card that's not really there. A good test would be to put almost 32 GB on the card then copy the data off, and compare the data copied off the card to the data copied onto it. If the two are the same, the card works.
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  #51  
Old 07-03-2010, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Need Balance Control View Post
DSperber, it's your card so you will do with it as you please, but might I suggest that you do actually format--low level format--the 32gb card a few times and copy a large amount of data, at least 16gb+, preferably 32GB, of data onto the card. You should really test out the card to see if it can actually store 32GB (or 30GB formatted) before you conclude everything is fine.
Sage advice.

First, because I'm not used to devices that read/write at such slow speeds (specifically writing at 2MB/s), I think I got myself in trouble when I subsequently tried to delete everything I'd written so far (assuming it actually did get written).

Using standard Windows tools and techniques (and file manager programs) that manipulate files and folders, after successfully deleting the first few folders on the card, I then tried to delete ALL THE REMAINING FOLDERS in one fell swoop. Well that didn't seem to work... or else it was just taking a long time and I got impatient.

Couldn't quite figure out what was the hangup, so after a while I pulled the card reader out of the USB port and tried to "start over". Obviously this is the wrong thing to do if something is in progress that's updating the file allocation tables on the "drive", but I had no indication that anything was actually going on at the time so I didn't think it was going to be harmful.

Well, as you'd suspect, none of this really turned out well. When I plugged the card reader back in Windows seemed to enter CHKDISK (or maybe it was after I re-booted... can't recall now). I got pretty nervous, but let the scan complete... which it did, saying nothing was wrong.

However when I passed the cursor over the early folders on the drive the flyout HELP looked good, whereas when I passed the cursor over the later folders on the drive I saw what appeared to be strong indications of corruption.

So either the original writing (as far as I let it go) did not actually work properly, or the interrupted attempt at deleting (before I pulled the card reader out) ended up corrupting the drive's FAT32 tables even further.

Finally, I went ahead and did a Windows FORMAT /FS:FAT32 on the drive. This took about 2 hours and definitely looked to complete normally. Certainly looks like a 32GB "drive". I was first asked if I wanted to "dismount" the drive (as it was apparently "in use by another process" when I started the FORMAT), I replied "yes" and all current handles were then released so that the FORMAT could proceed. After that it ran normally and to completion.

As you suggest, as a good true test I will now try to copy just about 32GB of data to the card, and let it finish... however long it takes. This should take around 4 hours if my calculations are correct. Also, I will use standard [single-threaded] Windows Explorer to do this drag/drop, rather than my file manager utility (which perhaps was copying multiple files at once, maybe complicating things even worse at such low write speed).

Also, this time I will create a single folder at the root of the disk (e.g. just like my parent \MP3 folder on my hard drive), and copy the hundreds of lower-level folders into that parent, just like under my \MP3 folder). My initial copy experiment just was straight to the root of the card, and maybe that was part of the problem. Don't know, but I will do it a bit differently this time.

Once this finishes I will examine the files completely... both at the directory level, and also at the data level. And I will do a file-compare at the binary level at random locations, to be sure everything truly did get copied.

As has been pointed out... "better safe than sorry". The J3 player did not arrive in the mail today, so I still have a few days to determine if I got a "real 32GB card" or a "fake 32GB card", or a "real but not-new 32GB card which works fine", or "a defective card".
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  #52  
Old 07-03-2010, 10:25 PM
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I must say, I do seem to be having amazingly improved results (both in speed and reliability) with "experiment #2" over those achieved with "experiment #1".

(1) As noted above, the card was first completely low-level formatted by Windows using FORMAT /FS:FAT32, thereby erasing any previous corruption which might have accrued either to (a) something I did when trying the apparently defective "microSD->StandardSD adapter" that arrived with my card, or (b) because I pulled out the card reader/writer from the USB port when I shouldn't have (or maybe even by the seller, if this wasn't truly a 100% brand new card after all).

(2) I'm copying all of my D:\MP3 folders (until I reach the 32GB limit on the target) over to Q:\MP3, after creating that \MP3 folder in the root of the card. This seems to be going 100% stable, and seemingly faster than it did previously... but this may only be in my imagination. Or, perhaps there really was a huge slowdown caused by FAT32 corruption issues. Anyway, right now it's moving "swimmingly fast", given that it's a Class 2 card.

(3) In "experiment #1" I used a wonderful file manager utility program named Free Commander to drag/drop the folders from source (under D:\MP3) to target (under root of the card). When it worked, the transfer rate was shown as just about 2MB/s. But this approach also seemed somehow related to my difficulties.

(4) In "experiment #2" I'm instead using another terrific utility program named Beyond Compare, to essentially "synchronize" the source (D:\MP3) and target (Q:\MP3) copying huge swaths of data by selecting many of those 1st-level folders (directly under D:\MP3). This program can (and will) also be used when I add/update my D:\MP3 collection and want to add/update the corresponding portable storage on the J3 itself and on this card.

Beyond Compare's user interface is terrific, in that it provides approximate percentage complete as well as a graphic progress fuel gauge, estimated time in minutes to completion, number of total files to be copied as well as which file number is being worked on right now (i.e. "copying file n of m"), realtime MB progress numbers on the current file being copied (i.e. "1.4MB of 8.5MB") updated every second, as well as realtime-updated space used on the target drive (shown both for the particular target folder being worked on as well as for the entire target drive).

Wonderful program, for many general uses, if you're not familiar with it. Highly recommended.

(5) Copied about 9GB so far, having interrupted it several times for other reasons. To keep the Beyond Compare copy process moving at max speed I need to avoid opening Windows Explorer or other programs that will try to find out the "usage" of all drives, including this card. At the Class 2 speed of this card multi-threading such accesses are not advised.


Looks good. Looks to be a real 32GB card that's working as expected, at least as of this moment.
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  #53  
Old 07-03-2010, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post
Looks good. Looks to be a real 32GB card that's working as expected, at least as of this moment.
That's great DSperber. $100 is an awesome price for a real 32GB card.

I personally probably would have started the massive copy when I go to sleep at night and checked the results the next morning.
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  #54  
Old 07-04-2010, 12:19 AM
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Yeah... awesome price, if it worked.

Unfortunately it appears that the rather complete corruption of the FAT32 structure is the result of my latest tests.

I copied about 11GB (in about 1.5 hours), and it looks like some of the high-level information is usable and correct as far as usage and bytes-free.

However a large number of the individual folders and subfolders are complete garbage, with corrupted names and useless/worthless/broken FAT32 directory information. I suspect this same type of thing happened with "experiment #1", which is why then attempting to delete all folders crashed completely... as the FAT32 folder structure was completely corrupted.

I'm going to start over (hey, this is July 4th weekend... so at least I can do this while I'm watching the Tour de France stages, plus Wimbledon finals), but something's definitely not right.

So, either (a) the card is a fake and not really 32GB, or (b) the card is a genuine SanDisk 32GB card but is somehow defective, or (c) the portable card read/writer is failing... but that seems unlikely, or (d) I need to be doing nothing else on my computer while this copy process is active... to insure no "distractions" to the 2MB/s transfer.

I'm still concerned that maybe something got damaged by what I believe to be that faulty micro->SD adapter I first tried, plugging the adapter into the standard SD slot on my computer's built-in card reader.

If this fails again, I'm going to try and [hopefully] return the card to the seller for a refund or replacement. I believe Amazon will guarantee this to occur, even though it's an Amazon Marketplace seller.

Anyway, for now I'm simply hoping I can try again (in smaller chunks this time), to make it complete successfully... though at this moment I'm honestly now skeptical.
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  #55  
Old 07-04-2010, 01:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post
If this fails again, I'm going to try and [hopefully] return the card to the seller for a refund or replacement. I believe Amazon will guarantee this to occur, even though it's an Amazon Marketplace seller.

Anyway, for now I'm simply hoping I can try again (in smaller chunks this time), to make it complete successfully... though at this moment I'm honestly now skeptical.
Good luck. Keep us posted. I'm genuinely interested to see how it works out for you in the end. If you paid with a credit card, you'll ultimately get your money back if this is a fake/damaged card.

BTW, take a look at the photo again:


Notice the font on the fake card. Look at 16 on both cards. Check your card again. Does the paint on your card smooth like the genuine card or more scratchy like the fake card?
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  #56  
Old 07-05-2010, 12:00 AM
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Well, this has turned out to be 100% unsuccessful.

The card itself looks "legit", aside from the missing info about "made in China". But then this is a 32GB card, so maybe that's not totally required. However the rest of the labeling and paint looks genuine.

Anyway, if this is a real SanDisk 32GB card, and this is the expected reliability of a device (which puts 32GB of data on a wafer as big as your fingernail, 15 x 11 x 1mm), well then I'm not sure its time has come yet as a real product.

I've now formatted the thing 3 separate times (all of which seemed to work fine), and created an \MP3 directory in the root.

I've then tried copying MP3 folders to it (i.e. under the \MP3 folder) in chunks of 1-2GB at a time, each time then confirming that the updated folder structure and file names was valid. So far, so good.

As I got close to the end of the 32GB capacity (say, 3GB from it) all of a sudden BWZAAP! Seemed like something just corrupted the whole FAT32 system, and under \MP3 I had a mix of real folder names and garbage. Within these lower-level folder names the 2nd-level folder names and/or file names were pretty much complete 100% garbage.

Tried it all again, this time deciding to copy about 30GB worth of folders in one "job". Ran about 4 1/2 hours and seemed to complete normally. Decided to "safely eject" and remove the drive to guarantee that all data got written, and that seemed to work fine. When I got the "you can safely remove" message I pulled out the USB reader/writer into which the card had been inserted, and figured I was now home free. Remember, I had checked the directory structure at the completion of the 30GB copy and it all looked good.

Plugged it back in, and BWZAAP! Garbage!!!

I honestly don't know if this IOGEAR 12-in-1 reader/writer is the culprit (seems hard to believe) or whether the card is simply trash. Again, I could not use the card at all with the SanDisk micro->SD adapter I had received with the card, but that may have been a defective adapter. And again, I'm convinced the item was NOT "new" as advertised, as it arrived with no sealed packaging or paperwork of any kind, and the plastic case was scuffed and the 32GB label was torn.

Anyway, I've now written emails to the seller, explaining my frustration (not to mention how much time I've spent over the past few days trying to "baby through" this data copy process which should have been 100% reliable, since this is presumably legitimate computer equipment), and asking for either (a) a replacement with an absolutely "new" item, or (b a complete refund. No answer yet, but it's a holiday weekend.

He's still selling on Amazon, but as I mentioned previously he's upped the price now to $145, which is just below the other "new" sale offers there which are in that same $150 price range. I will contact Amazon about this if I don't hear back from him on this defective card (as I never did last week, in response to my shipping queries). I will get the refund one way or another (either from Amazon or from VISA), if it comes to that.

In the meantime, it looks like I'll probably have to pay in the $150 vicinity for a replacement if he doesn't send me his own "new" replacement for the current defective one.

Very frustrating. Surely these items are more reliable than this. Sure, it's a relatively new item, but it's SanDisk and it's one of their for-sale products! My experience is certainly not normal, I would imagine, if I'd been sent a genuine "factory sealed" card.
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Old 07-05-2010, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post
Well, this has turned out to be 100% unsuccessful. I will get the refund one way or another (either from Amazon or from VISA), if it comes to that.

In the meantime, it looks like I'll probably have to pay in the $150 vicinity for a replacement if he doesn't send me his own "new" replacement for the current defective one.

Very frustrating
. Surely these items are more reliable than this. Sure, it's a relatively new item, but it's SanDisk and it's one of their for-sale products! My experience is certainly not normal, I would imagine, if I'd been sent a genuine "factory sealed" card.
I'm sorry to hear of your unfortunate experience. Hopefully you'll get your refund or replacement soon. It's good that you paid with Visa. You should be able to contest the charge if the item sold is damaged or defective. Unfortunately your time and effort can't be refunded.

I feel your frustration and empathize.
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  #58  
Old 07-06-2010, 07:50 PM
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Default Use H2TestW to detect fake memory cards

Well, it turns out that this card is a fake, phony, counterfeit card after all. It is NOT a 32GB card. Rather it is a 2GB card!!

After I discovered an Amazon review from just 2 days ago (long after I had already ordered and received my item) from another buyer who had the identical "seemingly defective" experience I did with his 32GB card, purchased from the very same seller that I bought mine from, I read that he had used a "gold standard" utility program named H2TESTW to examine memory cards and detect problems.

In his case, H2TESTW had reported that his so-called 32GB card was actually nothing more than a 2GB card.

Today I installed and ran H2TESTW for myself, and can report that I received the identical results he did. My so-called 32GB card is actually nothing more than a 2GB card. Hence why I could not seem to write more than about 1.9GB worth of data reliably, with anything more than that resulting in apparent complete corruption.

Here are the results:

Warning: Only 31979 of 31980 MByte tested.
The media is likely to be defective.
1.9 GByte OK (4048864 sectors)
29.2 GByte DATA LOST (61444128 sectors)
Details:29.2 GByte overwritten (61444128 sectors)
0 KByte slightly changed (< 8 bit/sector, 0 sectors)
0 KByte corrupted (0 sectors)
16 MByte aliased memory (32768 sectors)
First error at offset: 0x000000007a8fc000
Expected: 0x000000007a8fc000
Found: 0x00000007ce8fc000
H2testw version 1.3
Writing speed: 3.86 MByte/s
Reading speed: 17.2 MByte/s
H2testw v1.4


I had talked with SanDisk earlier this morning, and they confirmed that had I actually purchased a "new, retail" item (either through their online store or from any other legitimate retailer) the item would have been sealed in a blister-pack, with proper SanDisk markings and associated printed materials. I did not receive such item packaging, and so I was already suspicious from the get-go.

But now that I've run H2TESTW for myself I can confirm that "I've been had" (as has the other buyer from the same Amazon Marketplace seller).

I have reported this all to Amazon, and they have started the A-Z Guarantee process to get me a full refund. They will also promptly investigate the seller, now that two "fraudulent" sales in one week have both been reported. Presumably that will be the end of him (under the current name, anyway) as a seller on Amazon.

So now I will quickly re-order from someone else.

Oh... the J3 arrived today, and it's currently having its battery charged via USB connection. Could it be any more gorgeous???
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  #59  
Old 07-06-2010, 09:34 PM
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DSperber: This sucks the big one. I really hope you can get your money back and nail that guy for selling counterfeit cards.

Stuff like this really really pisses me off...
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Old 07-06-2010, 10:52 PM
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I'm very confident that Amazon will return my money (under their A-Z Guarantee, even if they don't recover the money from the seller immediately). That's what that guarantee is, and what it's specifically supposed to protect buyers against (i.e. unscrupulous sellers)... as long as a reasonable attempt has been made between buyer and presumed legitimate seller to resolve the issue.

Anyway, I've now bought what sure looks to be a "new, unopened, in retail packaging" 32GB item on eBay, for $132. Can't get more genuine than this picture seems to show:



Includes both the card, and another micro->SD adapter (which presumably will work fine), in clearly legitimate SanDisk blister-package.

In worst case, eBay also covered this purchase with their own "buyer protection"... although I hope I won't have to be dealing with it.


In the meantime, I'm busily downloading MP3 folders into the "Music" folder of my newly arrived and newly charged J3. Very very exciting.

My earlier "trial copies" seemed to go perfectly, at about 5.65MB/s transfer speed (vs. the 2MB/s speed of the 32GB card).

I also experimented with listening to a "reference" song on the J3 ("Make You Feel My Love", by Adele from her "19" album) which I am intimately familiar with in terms of how it sounds out of myriad speaker/sound systems... just to get a feel for the sound quality from the J3.

I tried my four different portable headphones (Sony MDR-V6, Sony MDR-V900, Sennheiser HD 280 pro, and Sony CD950) along with the ear buds that came with the J3. Quite an astonishing difference in sound out of these five phones, with the CD950 blowing them all away (of course it's also the very much largest, but also the most comfortable). I've got to say, the default sound quality from the J3 is astonishing... and I have not tried playing with the EQ yet.
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