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  #21  
Old 04-03-2010, 08:58 PM
djca djca is offline
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Originally Posted by Flyordie View Post
Browser uses the ARM CPU for image processing. If you want GPU Acceleration, which the photobrowser uses, it can only keep to a smaller size. :-) Ever tried loading a 2500x3000 image in IE8? WOW that sucks. lol
If Microsoft designed the Zune HD to be a crippled photoviewer then so be it. No problems there. But at least be upfront with it in the tech specs. Say that the Zune HD only supports an almost laughable 854x480 (or so) image resolution.
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  #22  
Old 04-03-2010, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by djca View Post
If Microsoft designed the Zune HD to be a crippled photoviewer then so be it. No problems there. But at least be upfront with it in the tech specs. Say that the Zune HD only supports an almost laughable 854x480 (or so) image resolution.
Total agreement here. Senseless limitations like these should be made readily known (and fixed when possible).
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Last edited by epithetless; 04-03-2010 at 09:20 PM.
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  #23  
Old 04-03-2010, 09:33 PM
djca djca is offline
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For what it's worth I tried syncing a few pics, and checked the resolution when copied back to the PC.

Original (width x height) --- Downscaled Resolution
7080x4000 --- 720x406
4000x7080 --- 271x480
3346x2231 --- 719x480
480x272 --- 480x272
272x480 --- 272x480
480x854 --- 269x480
854x480 --- 720x404
720x480 --- 720x480
480x720 --- 320x480

So it seems to me that the maximum resolution it can handle is 720x480. But you can't have a 480x720 image... it will still be downscaled to 320x480. So it also depends on aspect ratio.
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  #24  
Old 04-03-2010, 10:00 PM
Stujoe Stujoe is offline
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That is interesting. Sounds like it is the hardware limitation then since they match up pretty close with the chip specs.

I just figured it was software since I always hear how amazing the chip is for this and that. But, I guess it is the hardware. Oh well.
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  #25  
Old 04-03-2010, 10:30 PM
timmahcheese timmahcheese is offline
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That's pretty damn depressing if it actually is a hardware limitation.... Why is this such a hyped chip if it can't handle a simple photo rendering task?
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  #26  
Old 04-03-2010, 10:37 PM
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Can't imagine this is hardware...pretty silly that the device downscales so badly...
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  #27  
Old 04-03-2010, 10:40 PM
djca djca is offline
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I still think it's a software and/or memory limitation. The specs here indicates 864x480 as the maximum LCD display resolution.

I don't know exactly what role GPU acceleration plays in the simple display of a static picture. I'd guess it plays a role in the smoothness of the zooming in/out, panning and flicking pictures left and right.

Personally, I'd trade a little smoothness for support for higher-res images as is the case for the browser. But that's just me.


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  #28  
Old 04-03-2010, 11:18 PM
timmahcheese timmahcheese is offline
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Can't be a memory limitation.... The psp, which has a third of the ram can display just about any size......the Zune, whereas, which has3 times the ram, downscales for some reason to a rediculously low res....
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  #29  
Old 04-04-2010, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmahcheese View Post
Can't be a memory limitation.... The psp, which has a third of the ram can display just about any size......the Zune, whereas, which has3 times the ram, downscales for some reason to a rediculously low res....
I don't have a PSP so I don't know how smoothly it performs zooming in/out, panning, and changing images, and if its performance in those aspects is comparable to the Zune HD. I think we can all agree that the photo viewer is impressively smooth in these aspects --- granted, the images have a low maximum resolution of 720x480.

One reason I can think of memory as a possible cause, is 1) I don't know how much RAM the Zune OS eats up by itself, and 2) I would guess that the photo viewer pre-loads into memory at least the previous/next photos while viewing a particular photo. That would be one reason why flicking left and right to change photos is very smooth. BUT, if you do it too fast, the display stutters and becomes unresponsive momentarily until it's able to display the next image. In this regards, software design decisions and memory limitations go hand-in-hand.

But I think many of us will agree that the Zune HD photo viewer and Zune software downscaling is just lame with regards to high-res images. If it can support 720x480, why can't it support 480x720 without downscaling? It's just absurd that I can only think laziness and/or lack of resources is the culprit.

I'd imagine Microsoft left off mentioning the 720x480 (0.35 megapixel) limit in the tech specs out of embarrassment.
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  #30  
Old 04-04-2010, 12:52 AM
timmahcheese timmahcheese is offline
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@djca... The psp has extremely smooth zooming... Just takes a few seconds to fully clarify the rendering. My theory is that MSFT just included the rediculous downsizing just as a marketing ploy. When the images are smaller, it will render images way faster... Just to make it look pretty
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  #31  
Old 04-04-2010, 03:20 AM
thygriever thygriever is offline
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Gosh I've been complaining about this on the board a long time ago and to my friends. I'm glad this thread is actually taking it seriously. This is a huge issue for people who bought the Zune to be a good all around media player. Photos are the simplest thing to make work in my opinion. Just make the resolution work, or give the option to downsize or not. I believe Zen gives you an option of what you want to do (original or optimize). If the Zune team CAN fix this, they NEED TO fix this. It's not like all of the market doesn't care about photos.
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  #32  
Old 04-04-2010, 03:48 AM
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A question, since I'm not able to test this myself: Given the apparent (current) 720x480 max resolution limitation, are photos viewed on an HDTV (from the Zune via the HD dock) terribly fuzzy? Considering the resolution of a standard 720p screen is 1280720 pixels (nearly twice the resolution of any photo on the Zune HD), I'm assuming so...but it would be interesting to know for sure.
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  #33  
Old 04-04-2010, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epithetless View Post
A question, since I'm not able to test this myself: Given the apparent (current) 720x480 max resolution limitation, are photos viewed on an HDTV (from the Zune via the HD dock) terribly fuzzy? Considering the resolution of a standard 720p screen is 1280720 pixels (nearly twice the resolution of any photo on the Zune HD), I'm assuming so...but it would be interesting to know for sure.
I won't be able to check this until tomorrow when I get my dock. Since it's 720p, I guess the image will be upscaled to 1280x720. It still wont appear as sharp and as detailed as a true high-res image. If you're far enough from the TV I guess it wouldn't matter so much. And I don't know if the on-TV photo viewing supports zooming at all.
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  #34  
Old 04-04-2010, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by thygriever View Post
Gosh I've been complaining about this on the board a long time ago and to my friends. I'm glad this thread is actually taking it seriously. This is a huge issue for people who bought the Zune to be a good all around media player. Photos are the simplest thing to make work in my opinion. Just make the resolution work, or give the option to downsize or not. I believe Zen gives you an option of what you want to do (original or optimize). If the Zune team CAN fix this, they NEED TO fix this. It's not like all of the market doesn't care about photos.
I don't think it's even feasibly possible for the Zune team to 'fix' a hardware issue, unless you're talking about the supposed Zune HD2.
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  #35  
Old 04-05-2010, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by weedalin View Post
I don't think it's even feasibly possible for the Zune team to 'fix' a hardware issue, unless you're talking about the supposed Zune HD2.
Until Dave (or another Microsoft rep) chimes in with a definitive statement, I'm still not convinced the limitation is hardware-based. As I read it, the 864x480 spec for maximum LCD display resolution that djca linked to describes the largest screen the Tegra will support (on a device like the Zune HD), not the largest image it will display.
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  #36  
Old 04-05-2010, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thygriever View Post
Gosh I've been complaining about this on the board a long time ago and to my friends. I'm glad this thread is actually taking it seriously. This is a huge issue for people who bought the Zune to be a good all around media player. Photos are the simplest thing to make work in my opinion. Just make the resolution work, or give the option to downsize or not. I believe Zen gives you an option of what you want to do (original or optimize). If the Zune team CAN fix this, they NEED TO fix this. It's not like all of the market doesn't care about photos.
Yeah this is something that really fits into the media part of the device and it's a pretty big FAIL with it's functionality...
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  #37  
Old 04-05-2010, 05:38 AM
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Maybe you could keep the current functionality, but when someone zooms in enough, it loads the full image if it has been significantly downscaled.
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  #38  
Old 04-05-2010, 03:10 PM
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So the browser in the new Zune 4.5 firmware allows saving of images from the web. I tried this feature with a 1024x683 JPEG, and was able to view it using the Zune photo viewer. And one can definitely zoom into the picture a lot more than into a 720x480 pic.

When I synced it back to the PC, it's still a 1024x683 JPEG. BUT, the filesize is smaller. 131KB instead of 428KB.

This is a good step forward, at least we can throw out the "hardware limitation" reason out the window. Hopefully the next Zune software update can address the downscaling to maximum 720x480.
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  #39  
Old 04-05-2010, 03:39 PM
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I went a step further, and tried saving a 3456x2304 image (4 MB) using the browser. The browser itself wasn't able to display it. It just shows a small X icon on the top-left. Still the browser allowed for something to be saved to the collection. The Zune photo viewer however was NOT able to view it. In addition, there was a MASSIVE slowdown when viewing photos from that Received folder. The saved photo showed up as plain black on the Zune.

When synced back, it was a 142 KB JPG file with the same 3456x2304 resolution. It was black except for an X box on the upper-left.
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  #40  
Old 04-05-2010, 05:03 PM
Jacob Jacob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djca View Post
I went a step further, and tried saving a 3456x2304 image (4 MB) using the browser. The browser itself wasn't able to display it. It just shows a small X icon on the top-left. Still the browser allowed for something to be saved to the collection. The Zune photo viewer however was NOT able to view it. In addition, there was a MASSIVE slowdown when viewing photos from that Received folder. The saved photo showed up as plain black on the Zune.

When synced back, it was a 142 KB JPG file with the same 3456x2304 resolution. It was black except for an X box on the upper-left.
I'll try re-adding all my pictures. I have a couple of webcomics, and the text can be horrific to read, which sorta ruins the joke. I'll edit my results into this post.
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