android
  #1  
Old 03-30-2010, 04:48 PM
pechinma pechinma is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 31
Default Clip+ AC charger and battery question

hi. i wonder whether it's possible to use my old creative zen micro charge adapter to the sansa clip+? the clip seem to have the same usb port as the zen did. i also wonder: does it affect the battery in a negative way to have the clip+ charged for like 12 hrs? i mean can it be overcharged in the sense that it looses some power if it charges "more" than 100%?
Reply With Quote

Advertisement [Remove Advertisement]

  #2  
Old 03-30-2010, 05:00 PM
Cara Cara is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 74
Default

Do you mean your usb connecter, from device to computer? I treat all mine as entirely interchangeable, and have never had a problem. If it's on the desk, and the socket fits, in it goes.

I read somewhere on here that it doesn't matter how much you recharge the battery (might have been on the main Abi site?) but I'm sure someone here will know the definitive answer. I'm reckless, often leaving it all night and more, and have never had any issues at all.

Reply With Quote

  #3  
Old 03-30-2010, 05:16 PM
pechinma pechinma is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 31
Default

thanks, but no i mean an AC adapter with an USB end
Reply With Quote

  #4  
Old 03-30-2010, 05:19 PM
Cara Cara is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 74
Default

One end in the wall, the other in the device? Yep - I do that too, with any cable lying around, and any device that needs charging, and no thought for the consequences.
Reply With Quote

  #5  
Old 03-30-2010, 05:27 PM
Marvin the Martian's Avatar
Marvin the Martian Marvin the Martian is offline
Ultra Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: east central NY state
Posts: 10,602
Default

I have one like that too.....use it for my Clip+ and my Sony E345. No issues yet!
__________________
iPod Touch 5G 32GB, Touch 4G 32GB, Clip Sport 8GB. Rockbox-> Clip Zip 4GB, iPod Nano 2G 4GB, iPod 5.5G 80GB
2012 Nexus 7 32GB, Asus MeMoPad 8 16+64GB, LG Optimus G Pro, Nokia Lumia 900 and Lumia 520
Reply With Quote

  #6  
Old 03-30-2010, 05:32 PM
Cara Cara is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 74
Default

I was worried about this at first, but I rang a techy shop and they said as long as your cable fits the device, nothing bad will happen. They said if there was a problem, it wouldn't charge, but nor would it blow up, or damage any device.

So far, so good.
Reply With Quote

  #7  
Old 03-30-2010, 05:37 PM
saratoga saratoga is offline
Rockbox Developer / Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,604
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cara View Post
I was worried about this at first, but I rang a techy shop and they said as long as your cable fits the device, nothing bad will happen. They said if there was a problem, it wouldn't charge, but nor would it blow up, or damage any device.
This is really not true for a lot of devices. Putting an ipod cable into a sansa can break the player. Just because the connectors look the same doesn't mean the pins are wired up the same.

It should be safe to use AC -> USB adapters with whatever cable came with your mp3 player though.
Reply With Quote

  #8  
Old 03-30-2010, 05:41 PM
Cara Cara is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 74
Default

Fair enough ... but my iPod cable wouldn't fit my Clip, as it's totally different. I got a separate charging pin for it, to use in the wall.
Reply With Quote

  #9  
Old 03-30-2010, 06:14 PM
saratoga saratoga is offline
Rockbox Developer / Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,604
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cara View Post
Fair enough ... but my iPod cable wouldn't fit my Clip, as it's totally different. I got a separate charging pin for it, to use in the wall.
Thats because your Clip doesn't have a sandisk dock connector on it. Its just a normal USB device. However lots of the other Sansas have special connectors (e200, fuze).
Reply With Quote

  #10  
Old 03-31-2010, 01:32 AM
Cara Cara is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 74
Default

That's really useful to know, and I'll bear it in mind - thanks.
Reply With Quote

  #11  
Old 03-31-2010, 06:05 AM
pechinma pechinma is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 31
Default

saratoga: sounds bad but do you know if the zen micro adapter works without breaking the clip+?
Reply With Quote

  #12  
Old 03-31-2010, 08:55 AM
Mikerman Mikerman is offline
Ultra Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,450
Default

Umm, what is the connector at the end: a mini USB 5-pin connector, or a micro? The Clip needs the mini.
Reply With Quote

  #13  
Old 03-31-2010, 10:17 AM
dave61430 dave61430 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 158
Default

If it fits use it. You can't overcharge a LiOn battery, they come with self contained regulator which will shut off when unit is fully charged. Same as a laptop, some people leave those connected all the time.

Did Saratoga actually make sure the ipod cable plugs into a Sansa?
Reply With Quote

  #14  
Old 03-31-2010, 04:10 PM
pechinma pechinma is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 31
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikerman View Post
Umm, what is the connector at the end: a mini USB 5-pin connector, or a micro? The Clip needs the mini.
5-pin i think. there are 5 metallic thingies in it
Reply With Quote

  #15  
Old 04-01-2010, 05:27 AM
m_k m_k is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 277
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave61430 View Post
If it fits use it. You can't overcharge a LiOn battery, they come with self contained regulator which will shut off when unit is fully charged. Same as a laptop, some people leave those connected all the time.

Did Saratoga actually make sure the ipod cable plugs into a Sansa?
DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!!

You certainly CAN overcharge MANY liithium Ion batteries! NOT ALL of them have protection circuits built in!

And, when they fail, they tend to do so with spectacular effects -- as in "burn your house down" and "sear your lungs with toxic fumes" and "penetrate directly to your BONES" (literally) with deadly chemicals.

When they ignite, they're about impossible to extinguish before they self-exhaust all fuel -- and, they have a nasty tendency to turn into rockets (again, literally) due to the rapid exhaust of the burning fuel.

The good news is that the rocket effect is pretty much limited to "free" cells -- the ones embedded in a player are not likely to take off across the room. They can still burn your house down, kill you, and destroy your player, but at least they won't ricochet around the room setting multiple fires (I'm not making any of this up -- check the flashlight hobby forums for plenty of examples complete with photos).

As to using ANY charger "that fits" ... well, it's still problematic for two reasons. First of all, the almost ubiquitous 30 pin connector -- various vendors use the same connector, with slightly different cut-out trim on the ends, to hopefully block one brand cable fitting into another brand player -- but, tolerances being what they are, it's NOT unheard of for for the wrong cable to physically fit into the wrong player. Pipe power into signal lines, and you're apt to let the smoke out of your player.

The second caveat is that even when you're using generic USB connectors, with "nominal" USB voltage, you MAY smoke your player.

I would NOT use a NON-REGULATED charger on ANY device I cared about, UNLESS that charger was provided by the player's manufacturer.

The reason is that with an UNREGULATED charger, the voltage will NOT be the proper USB (5V) voltage UNLESS the player presents the PRECISE load that the charger wants to see. If your player draws too few milliamps, the charger will put out too high a voltage.

The bottom line is that in a case like this, IF your player does not contain its OWN power regulation system you can easily destroy the player by feeding too high a voltage into it.

I do NOT know if Sansa includes regulation in their players, but if I had to wager on it I'd bet that they DON'T.

Why? Two reasons (three, if "cost" is considered). First off, there's the size/weight issue. Sansa players tend to be very compact. That means that a prudent designer is not going to include IN THE PLAYER something that can be easily included in the CHARGER.

With that in mind, we come to the second reason: From what I've seen ALL chargers that are specifically built FOR Sansa players have built-in switching supplies (the best form of regulation). I have NEVER seen a "for Sansa" charger that was a simple NON-regulated wall-wart, although I HAVE seen plenty of "generic" unregulated "USB" wall-wart supplies.

So, assuming that the charger contains the regulation (and considering that most charging is probably done via computer USB ports, which are also regulated), it would be overkill to ALSO include regulation in the players.

I'm sure that people will chime in to boast that they've used non-regulated chargers with their Sansas and not burned anything out (yet). I am not moved by such anecdotal evidence. I have no way of knowing if the chargers in question were underpowered (and thus, overloaded -- presenting too LOW a voltage to the Sansa), or, overpowered (and thus, sending too HIGH a voltage).

In short, if you're using a non-regulated USB-connector-equipped charger without KNOWING that your player has built-in regulation, you're gambling with the possible loss of your player.

Since decent quality regulated USB chargers can be obtained for token prices, it really isn't worth gambling like this. (I find them on Woot for under a dollar every few months -- the last several I've gotten contained two switching supplies -- one for house current, one for lighter socket in car -- and a genuine Sansa brand 30-pin cable -- for 99 cents).

The Zune chargers mentioned here are also excellent quality switching supplies.
Reply With Quote

  #16  
Old 04-09-2010, 09:20 AM
pechinma pechinma is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 31
Default

i don't really know what to believe here. anyhow, the little text on the charger gives the following stats:

AC ADAPTOR
INPUT: 100-240VAC ~ 50-60Hz, 0.3A
OUTPUT: 5V

i'm not that good at electronics, but the output, 5V, is the same as the sansa charger, right? the only thing i remember from school about this is that voltage output is the most important thing.
Reply With Quote

  #17  
Old 04-09-2010, 09:29 AM
Mikerman Mikerman is offline
Ultra Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,450
Default

Yep, need to take care with the voltage, as too much will blow out your Clip. 5V is what you need. Amperage should be around 500 mA or a bit lower can be fine (up to a couple 100 mA lower can be fine, but a recharge will take longer); higher amperage is fine, as the Clip just will take what it wants and needs.
Reply With Quote

  #18  
Old 04-09-2010, 09:35 AM
pechinma pechinma is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 31
Default

Amperage is 1000 mA. Is that ok?

5V
1000mA
Reply With Quote

  #19  
Old 04-09-2010, 09:58 AM
Mikerman Mikerman is offline
Ultra Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,450
Default

Yep--the Clip only needs half or less than that, but with amperage, it just takes what it needs--more is just fine (as distinct from voltage).
Reply With Quote

  #20  
Old 04-09-2010, 12:32 PM
m_k m_k is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 277
Default

Not to be the death of the party, or, proudly wear the "Mr. Wet Blanket" mantle, but the problem is that NONE of these numbers have ANY meaning with respect to the issue of whether or not they are safe by virtue of providing REGULATED output.

A plain-jane UNregulated wall-wart will bear labeling along the lines of so-and-so many milliamps at yay many volts.

The ONLY thing that tells you is that IF your device draws a load of EXACTLY that many milliamps, the wart will provide that "nominal" voltage.

If your player draws more current, the wart will output LOWER voltage. If it draws less current, the wart will output HIGHER voltage.

Thus the NEED for REGULATED power supply/charger.

Output ratings on UNregulated supplies are "nominal" and in the real world meaningless, and quite likely DESTRUCTIVE unless your device has its OWN regulator/voltage limiter built in.

And IF your player is designed for use with a REGULATED charger the odds are not real likely that it'll have redundant regulation built into the player. That would exact a nontrivial penalty in terms of cost, size, space, and weight -- all at a premium in the highly competitive commodity player market in which price, size, and weight are of critical importance.

Since all of the "made for Sansa" supplies I've seen ARE regulated devices, I tend toward the belief that this is what the player was designed to accept, and therefore I am loath to plug an UNregulated supply into my Sansa.

When the potential benefit is essentially nonexistant (since regulated supplies can be found for a dollar or so if one shops around), and the risks are high (the loss of an expensive player), I'm not willing to gamble.

Others clearly are -- or, are sufficiently confident that they lead a charmed life where bad stuff cannot happen -- that they WILL gamble. And, given the bell curve expected in this kind of situation (some chargers will have lower output), it's inevitable that some people WILL chime in with "I use an unregulated charger without any problems."

To use that sort of anecdotal evidence as "proof" of safety is tantamount to accepting the idea that jaywalking -- with eyes closed -- is perfectly safe, because a half-dozen people on the Internet posted that THEY had jaywalked with THEIR eyes closed and lived to tell about it.
Reply With Quote

Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:02 AM.