Ummm....please don't tell me THIS is the Spring Update?? (Zune 4.5)

[SilvaHalo]

and I thought this level of complaining was reserved for videogame fanboys, it never occured to me that I would see it here

[epithetless]

Originally Posted by TheFooDaddy

So... it appears the Spring Update includes one actual improvement (codec support) and three new ways to make it easier to buy stuff. Sneaky.

"Hey, Wal-Mart. Will you ever carry Product A?"

"Nope, but we did add four more doors to the front of the building!"

This made me laugh.

Originally Posted by Machiventa

They're mainly targeting Zune Pass members with these features so I see why people are complaining but in no way are they leaving anyone out who doesn't have a pass.

I'm not following you here. If Microsoft is mainly catering to Zune Pass subscribers with these features, how are non-subscribers not left out? Put another way, if these features are Zune Pass-specific, how do they benefit those people who've decided against paying for a Zune Pass? Or are you simply saying that, with Xvid support (and perhaps other unannounced features), non-Zune Pass members will still get something?

[erythro42]

Originally Posted by epithetless

I'm not following you here. If Microsoft is mainly catering to Zune Pass subscribers with these features, how are non-subscribers not left out? Put another way, if these features are Zune Pass-specific, how do they benefit those people who've decided against paying for a Zune Pass?

Well, it could entice you to get a Zune Pass. Shazam!

Seriously though, they're selling a service, and I don't see how making it better should be considered a negative. It's practically unrelated news for anyone not interested in purchasing it.

A neat idea would be if Smart DJ could work in free content though. I've often tried browsing the store when I was bored trying to figure out what tv shows, music videos, or music might be "free" or "featured", because I'm not ready to commit to a subscription, and it's not obvious what content doesn't cost money.

Also, I don't know about the rest of you squares, but you're behind the times. I'm all set to start complaining about the Fall update before everyone else jumps on the bandwagon.

[Icky6]

Originally Posted by erythro42

Well, it could entice you to get a Zune Pass. Shazam!

Seriously though, they're selling a service, and I don't see how making it better should be considered a negative. It's practically unrelated news for anyone not interested in purchasing it.

A neat idea would be if Smart DJ could work in free content though. I've often tried browsing the store when I was bored trying to figure out what tv shows, music videos, or music might be "free" or "featured", because I'm not ready to commit to a subscription, and it's not obvious what content doesn't cost money.

Also, I don't know about the rest of you squares, but you're behind the times. I'm all set to start complaining about the Fall update before everyone else jumps on the bandwagon.

It's not a negative exactly, but it is decidedly self-serving. And yes, I know they're a business... I have no qualm with them trying to sell their service, but an update should address more important concerns before that. Their "media-focused device" pitch smacks of blatant advertising of their own service rather than truly making it the best media player (which IMO would include, as many have mentioned, a seek bar, wav and flac support, etc).

I'm sure people who have and love the Zune Pass are just going to go "wtf" at this comment, but I think the team should focus on an update that will benefit ALL Zune HD customers, not just the ones that effectively kissed Microsoft's butt by buying a Zune Pass.

[theholybull]

Originally Posted by erythro42

Also, I don't know about the rest of you squares, but you're behind the times. I'm all set to start complaining about the Fall update before everyone else jumps on the bandwagon.

Im one step ahead of you because I think the Zune HD2 is a piece of shit because it should have had camera.

[Stujoe]

I am pretty sure the camera will be part of the Spring Update. They just haven't announced that yet. If it isn't, I am selling my Zune.

[syst3m]

Originally Posted by Stujoe

I am pretty sure the camera will be part of the Spring Update. They just haven't announced that yet. If it isn't, I am selling my Zune.

Lmao. +1

[epithetless]

I love where this thread has started going...It's nice to get some laughs in this dour place. Thanks, erythro42, theholybull, and Stujoe!

[Stujoe]

In the end, there isn't much we can do but laugh at it until the update actually gets here on our Zunes. Then I can take the complaining a bit more seriously!

[theholybull]

maybe im looking at this from a slightly different viewpoint than the rest of you, As you can see from my sig i have a few other PMPs, and well the lack of apps arent a problem. I bought the zune for the sole purpose of playing music on the go. I knew that the zune was gonna be a music player first and a computer second. Dont get me wrong i love my touches but they dont offer near the music experience the zune does. As far as im concerned its the best music player on the market. Apps and anything else are just berries.

[erythro42]

Originally Posted by Icky6

It's not a negative exactly, but it is decidedly self-serving. And yes, I know they're a business... I have no qualm with them trying to sell their service, but an update should address more important concerns before that. Their "media-focused device" pitch smacks of blatant advertising of their own service rather than truly making it the best media player (which IMO would include, as many have mentioned, a seek bar, wav and flac support, etc).

It's not good logic, though. You'd have to first establish that implementing X feature directly takes away from Y concern.

I'm not sure how I can explain it.

Including X doesn't preclude Y.

With the SmartDJ, despite not having a Zune Pass, I actually use it pretty frequently on my desktop. If your music collection has a significant library of a certain genre, it's great for spur of the moment mixes and drags out tracks you haven't listened to in awhile, which happens a lot when you start edging towards 20-30+ gigs of music.

So that feature is coming to the Zune HD, which is neat. To say that the feature also being capable of streaming songs from the Marketplace somehow takes away from Zune HD owners who do not have a Pass Subscription is kind of a "what's that got to do with the cost of tea in China?" argument. If it ONLY functioned for those with Passes, your argument would have a foundation for claiming it's a slap in the face of non-subscribers since that would be a kind of artificial barrier, but as it is, the inclusion of something like SmartDJ doesn't mean that other features with wider appeal aren't being implemented. See: XviD support.

If instead you're claiming that all of X "major" concerns (which you'll notice varies from person to person, especially when you're talking features and not a software flaw like freezing screens, which I've been fortunate in not experiencing) should be addressed before addressing any of Y "minor" concerns, well that's kind of silly. Different features require different investments of resources and effort. Which doesn't even address their relative schedules or how they can be developed in parallel. That'd be like if the mayor of a city decided there wasn't going to be any more garbage picked up or mail delivered until local officials had eliminated crime and poverty. I mean, all those dollars spent on collecting recycling could be going to homeless shelters and jails, right? Now you could, and some cities do, make the case that one problem, such as homelessness, is more immediate than another, such as crime, or vice versa. But no one's going to suggest that a new program providing fruits and vegetables for school lunches is somehow a disservice to either of those goals.

A more logical point of view would be questioning somewhat comparable features. Let's say, implementing XviD support instead of another video format you favor, such as H.264. Or even XviD instead of expanding the supported audio formats, although in that case if they chose FLAC, I'd lament the absence of OGG, and if they imlplemented OGG, they'd get flack over FLAC. And then there's the relative merits of each format (sound/video quality vs. size and performance), proprietary licensing, adoption rates, and a number of other factors to consider. And again since video support and audio support aren't necessarily related or equivalent features (which is more involved? I have no idea), you might still have a case of apples and oranges.

[erythro42]

Originally Posted by theholybull

Im one step ahead of you because I think the Zune HD2 is a piece of shit because it should have had camera.

Don't even get me started on how it doesn't have multi-tasking. If I can't fondle myself to some hardcore pornography while I type out an email to my grandmother and headbang to Children of Bodom, I don't even see the point in releasing the thing.

I'll bet they put that in the HD3 though. That's what I get for being a premature a-dopt-julator.

[Icky6]

Originally Posted by erythro42

It's not good logic, though. You'd have to first establish that implementing X feature directly takes away from Y concern.

I'm not sure how I can explain it.

Including X doesn't preclude Y.

With the SmartDJ, despite not having a Zune Pass, I actually use it pretty frequently on my desktop. If your music collection has a significant library of a certain genre, it's great for spur of the moment mixes and drags out tracks you haven't listened to in awhile, which happens a lot when you start edging towards 20-30+ gigs of music.

So that feature is coming to the Zune HD, which is neat. To say that the feature also being capable of streaming songs from the Marketplace somehow takes away from Zune HD owners who do not have a Pass Subscription is kind of a "what's that got to do with the cost of tea in China?" argument. If it ONLY functioned for those with Passes, your argument would have a foundation for claiming it's a slap in the face of non-subscribers since that would be a kind of artificial barrier, but as it is, the inclusion of something like SmartDJ doesn't mean that other features with wider appeal aren't being implemented. See: XviD support.

If instead you're claiming that all of X "major" concerns (which you'll notice varies from person to person, especially when you're talking features and not a software flaw like freezing screens, which I've been fortunate in not experiencing) should be addressed before addressing any of Y "minor" concerns, well that's kind of silly. Different features require different investments of resources and effort. Which doesn't even address their relative schedules or how they can be developed in parallel. That'd be like if the mayor of a city decided there wasn't going to be any more garbage picked up or mail delivered until local officials had eliminated crime and poverty. I mean, all those dollars spent on collecting recycling could be going to homeless shelters and jails, right? Now you could, and some cities do, make the case that one problem, such as homelessness, is more immediate than another, such as crime, or vice versa. But no one's going to suggest that a new program providing fruits and vegetables for school lunches is somehow a disservice to either of those goals.

A more logical point of view would be questioning somewhat comparable features. Let's say, implementing XviD support instead of another video format you favor, such as H.264. Or even XviD instead of expanding the supported audio formats, although in that case if they chose FLAC, I'd lament the absence of OGG, and if they imlplemented OGG, they'd get flack over FLAC. And then there's the relative merits of each format (sound/video quality vs. size and performance), proprietary licensing, adoption rates, and a number of other factors to consider. And again since video support and audio support aren't necessarily related or equivalent features (which is more involved? I have no idea), you might still have a case of apples and oranges.

Hmmm. Good points, I definitely see where you're coming from. I guess I'm just saying that something like the Smart DJ benefits Zune Pass subscribers the most. Sure it works with my current library but the only time I'd find it useful is if I had a Zune Pass that lets me find new music. I already have listened to my music, so it seems like more of a shuffle to me... and if I want that I'll just play a specific genre. Likewise dock-related updates only benefit the dock users.

Just to be clear, I'm very happy they're adding xVid support, and I appreciate their work in this regard. And yes, they may very well be working on, say, more audio codec support in parallel with these things. But as it stands, this seems like a very weak update for... 5 months since the last one (at least, it's not even out yet). It's tough because, you're right, important concerns are subjective. And I feel like a jerk, just some relentless consumer cracking the whip... but it all goes back to my feelings that they're not even really living up to the media-centric theme that they so dearly want us to believe in. At this rate, when do they plan on adding more audio codec support (if ever)? I can't see it coming any sooner than September at the rate they move, so a year after the initial release... think about that, a year after the HD comes out we *might* get proper audio support on a *premium media* player. If I only cared about mp3s then I'd have grabbed a Sansa.

[epithetless]

Originally Posted by Icky6

If I only cared about mp3s then I'd have grabbed a Sansa.

...which happens to also support both FLAC and Ogg.

[erythro42]

Originally Posted by Icky6

Hmmm. Good points, I definitely see where you're coming from. I guess I'm just saying that something like the Smart DJ benefits Zune Pass subscribers the most. Sure it works with my current library but the only time I'd find it useful is if I had a Zune Pass that lets me find new music. I already have listened to my music, so it seems like more of a shuffle to me... and if I want that I'll just play a specific genre. Likewise dock-related updates only benefit the dock users.

Just to be clear, I'm very happy they're adding xVid support, and I appreciate their work in this regard. And yes, they may very well be working on, say, more audio codec support in parallel with these things. But as it stands, this seems like a very weak update for... 5 months since the last one (at least, it's not even out yet). It's tough because, you're right, important concerns are subjective. And I feel like a jerk, just some relentless consumer cracking the whip... but it all goes back to my feelings that they're not even really living up to the media-centric theme that they so dearly want us to believe in. At this rate, when do they plan on adding more audio codec support (if ever)? I can't see it coming any sooner than September at the rate they move, so a year after the initial release... think about that, a year after the HD comes out we *might* get proper audio support on a *premium media* player. If I only cared about mp3s then I'd have grabbed a Sansa.

Of course, by that reasoning the Zune device in general benefits Pass subscribers the most... which should have been a factor during the purchasing decision process.

But I'm with you. I'm still pining for my baby, Vorbis. But I've found premium tends to indicate the quality of the user experience, not the level of technical support. Which sounds odd, but I mean you have players with great software, intuitive interfaces, and robust playback features, but limited expandability and format support (iPod, Zune), and you have the other guys who support damn near every format you can throw at them (Sansa, Archos, Creative) but whose interfaces and even the hardware itself are tragically unimaginative.

Chin up, dude. Someday our prince will come. And he'll be carrying the open media format PMP of our dreams.

[Maxis]

Originally Posted by Icky6

It's not a negative exactly, but it is decidedly self-serving. And yes, I know they're a business... I have no qualm with them trying to sell their service, but an update should address more important concerns before that. Their "media-focused device" pitch smacks of blatant advertising of their own service rather than truly making it the best media player (which IMO would include, as many have mentioned, a seek bar, wav and flac support, etc).

I'm sure people who have and love the Zune Pass are just going to go "wtf" at this comment, but I think the team should focus on an update that will benefit ALL Zune HD customers, not just the ones that effectively kissed Microsoft's butt by buying a Zune Pass.

I have a zune pass and trust me when i say i 100% agree with this comment. Having the pass is fine and dandy but im getting rather annoyed at the fact that they are mostly bringing features that advance the pass on the device rather than advance the device on a whole sans the pass.

[Maxis]

Originally Posted by epithetless

...which happens to also support both FLAC and Ogg.

Facepalm ...

[epithetless]

Originally Posted by Maxis

Facepalm ...

Hrm? Not sure what you're facepalming here. The fact that the latest Sansas support FLAC and Ogg Vorbis when the Zune HD doesn't? Or that I mentioned FLAC and Ogg at all?

[Maxis]

Your first reason ... Its just kinda funny and depressing at the same time.

[Zuniq]

Originally Posted by Icky6

It's not a negative exactly, but it is decidedly self-serving. And yes, I know they're a business... I have no qualm with them trying to sell their service, but an update should address more important concerns before that. Their "media-focused device" pitch smacks of blatant advertising of their own service rather than truly making it the best media player (which IMO would include, as many have mentioned, a seek bar, wav and flac support, etc).

I'm sure people who have and love the Zune Pass are just going to go "wtf" at this comment, but I think the team should focus on an update that will benefit ALL Zune HD customers, not just the ones that effectively kissed Microsoft's butt by buying a Zune Pass.

I fully agree!!