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  #1  
Old 10-04-2009, 05:23 PM
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Default Your thoughts on Windows 7 vs. Vista

Hi all,

I was wondering what your thoughts are on Windows 7? How does it compare to Vista? How does it compare to XP? I've used the RC and it seems pretty good. It's now in RTM and is being released on October 22nd.

Do you think it'll succeed, or fail like Vista?

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Old 10-04-2009, 05:56 PM
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I have the Windows 7 professional. Before that, I had Vista. Windows 7 is Vista SP2 with a new taskbar and improved boot speed. Windows 7 feels much faster than Vista, but when you benchmark both operating systems, the speed difference is much smaller. There also a lot of small useability tweaks in 7. For example, aero shake and desktop preview. The new taskbar is SO MUCH BETTER!

I think Windows 7 will succeed. People think Vista failed, but it really did not. Every new computer bought came with Vista. Vista's problem early on were driver issues (which is not Microsoft's fault, blame the manufacturers). After SP1, Vista was better to use IMO than Windows XP. Vista's failure was more perception than actuality. Windows 7 will be successful because it does not have the same negative stigma that Vista had, even though it seems like it is Vista with some upgrades.
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Old 10-04-2009, 06:41 PM
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In my opinion Vista was the 2nd worst Windows after WinME... Win7 certainly is a step in the right direction (again).

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People think Vista failed, but it really did not. Every new computer bought came with Vista.
Of course Vista was on every computer you bought in a store... that's how it is, you get the newest variant of Microsoft's OS with a new computer. Well, I don't, since I build my own computers, but that's besides the point. Just because every computer was sold recently with Vista on it doesn't make it a good OS, it's just how the market works.
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Old 10-04-2009, 06:48 PM
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In my opinion Vista was the 2nd worst Windows after WinME... Win7 certainly is a step in the right direction (again).
Really...

I must be one of the few people with a good experience. My laptop came with Vista SP1. Once I uninstalled the crapware (and turned UAC off), it was all good. I found that Windows XP felt less intuitive than Vista.
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Old 10-04-2009, 08:07 PM
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One of the main problems with Vista was that it uses a lot of resources, but most newer computer's you buy now can run it just fine. Another problem with Vista is the way they implemented UAC (User Account Control), they made way to annoying and it popped up way to much, with Window 7 they made it very much less annoying. Many people also complained about hardware incompatibilitys, I have never had one so I can't comment, but I have had software incompatibility's but it was always for software I would hardly ever use so it never bothered me. I usually have the latest version of the software I use the most.

In most cases Vista is much faster than Windows XP on newer hardware as it was designed for newer hardware.

I was thinking about buying Windows 7 when it comes out but I am going to wait until later because Vista works fine for me right now, also I want to get a new case for my computer and maybe a new motherboard and processor, so I need the money for that.

Also, Microsoft introduced many new technologies with Vista.
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Old 10-04-2009, 08:58 PM
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Vista was an excellent operating system, once SP1 hit (it's on SP2 now). The release version had some issues. The largest problems with Vista were compatibility (it used a different driver model than previous versions of Windows), and the BS that Apple ads were getting people to believe.

Do you remember Windows 95 versus Windows NT 4.0? Windows 95, 98, and ME all used the same core. Windows 2000 was actually Windows NT 5.0. Win2000 was the first business oriented release that saw some decent adoption by home users, as the driver model for it was gaining traction by consumer oriented companies. It even supported DirectX and gaming.

Windows XP was Windows NT 5.1, a slight update to Win2000, but far more fleshed out for consumers. It was the first Windows OS that was aimed at both the consumer and the professional. Well, Windows Vista is actually Win NT 6.0, and it uses a completely different driver model. It's taken this long to get fleshed out. However, it's left a bad taste in the mouth of early adopters, or those who haven't tried it yet due to bad word of mouth, so MS is releasing Windows 7, which is actually NT 6.1. It's a slight update to Vista, but renamed so those who hated Vista won't associate the two.

Windows 7 does bring some new things that Vista doesn't have though, such as better usage of SSDs, and a better interface. I'm switching from Vista Ultimate 32 to Win7 Home Premium 64. Vista was pretty much the guinea pig OS for the new driver model, as well as 64-bit support. Win 7 will be more fleshed out at launch. However, Vista users will still have a robust OS, provided that they update to SP2, and have the hardware to run it. I've seen too many idiots run out and install it on their single-core Celeron with 512MB of RAM, then complain about performance.
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Old 10-04-2009, 09:02 PM
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I guess you're right, medion. Vista wasn't the worst OS ever. Windows ME was the worst. I would be using Vista now if it worked with my computer.

-McDougal
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Old 10-04-2009, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suprman2020 View Post
Every new computer bought came with Vista. Vista's problem early on were driver issues (which is not Microsoft's fault, blame the manufacturers).
Not to be a prick here, but this is a completely wrong statement and conclusion in my opinion. Vista sucks plain and simple, no real debate can be made about how much it sucks. As far as new computers having vista, dkft already explained that and I remember hearing about several small laptops having Linux on them ( From a famous brand if i remember right ), so it wasn't all of them.

However, we can debate as to whether Win7 or Vista will suck more and I think Win7 is an upgrade from Vista. However, I do not think it is neccessary and I personally am going to savor XP as long as I possibly can.

Personally, I am just counting the days until Linux is brought into more public view ( as well as offers more compatibility ). Once that happens, people will switch to Linux so fast it will make your head spin.
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Old 10-04-2009, 10:50 PM
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Vista sucks plain and simple, no real debate can be made about how much it sucks.
Actually, I'd like to hear what about Vista that you didn't like. I installed Vista on this machine about 16 months ago, right after SP1 came out, and it's been a dream. I can honestly say that I haven't had it crash once. It's been turned on now for 3 months straight (Turned it on the first week of July, and other than a few reboots after system updates, it hasn't been turned off).
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Old 10-04-2009, 10:57 PM
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Actually, I'd like to hear what about Vista that you didn't like. I installed Vista on this machine about 16 months ago, right after SP1 came out, and it's been a dream. I can honestly say that I haven't had it crash once. It's been turned on now for 3 months straight (Turned it on the first week of July, and other than a few reboots after system updates, it hasn't been turned off).
#1. My computer doesn't even have enough ram to run just Vista even though I can play WoW ( I don't actually play WoW ) on XP.

#2. The countless threads I know of on countless games involving issues with compatibility and Vista. Funny fact: I've been told by friends it was easier to deal with Linux compatibility than Vista compatibility ( on games made for Windows ).

#3. Keyboard Layout Changes are even more difficult than XP. I wait for a day they will fix that and the issues/inefficiencies of that.

#4. Needless gloss and visual affects that I'm sure only half of them can be disabled when I would personally want to disable all of them. Just for the record, I think XP alone has too many visual affects and I have already disabled everything possible.
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  #11  
Old 10-04-2009, 11:16 PM
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#1. My computer doesn't even have enough ram to run just Vista even though I can play WoW ( I don't actually play WoW ) on XP.
No offense, but you don't install Vista on an old machine. It's just as dumb to install windows XP on a machine from 1995. I fully believe that a new operating system is meant for newer technology, and that if your old OS is fine, don't upgrade until you have the hardware.

Quote:
#2. The countless threads I know of on countless games involving issues with compatibility and Vista. Funny fact: I've been told by friends it was easier to deal with Linux compatibility than Vista compatibility ( on games made for Windows ).
There were a lot of compatibility issues initially, due to the new driver model. I haven't heard a peep on this since SP1, and even got Myst to run on my machine. What games are YOU still having problems with?

Quote:
#3. Keyboard Layout Changes are even more difficult than XP. I wait for a day they will fix that and the issues/inefficiencies of that.
I have no idea what you're talking about here. Please enlighten me.

Quote:
#4. Needless gloss and visual affects that I'm sure only half of them can be disabled when I would personally want to disable all of them. Just for the record, I think XP alone has too many visual affects and I have already disabled everything possible.
Right-click desktop, click personalize. From there, select theme. From the theme menu, select Windows Classic. I love the gloss, but it is personal preference.

If you do intend to upgrade to Windows 7, I'd recommend a new machine, or some upgraded hardware, and for you especially, Win 7 Business. It comes with a virtualized WinXP.
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  #12  
Old 10-05-2009, 12:40 AM
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No offense, but you don't install Vista on an old machine. It's just as dumb to install windows XP on a machine from 1995. I fully believe that a new operating system is meant for newer technology, and that if your old OS is fine, don't upgrade until you have the hardware.
Can you name something that benefits me with Vista that is worth the amount of memory it requires?

Personally, when no extra benefits are acquired, I don't personally see a need for extra ram use. Particularly going from 100mb to 1gig of ram being used.

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Originally Posted by medion View Post
There were a lot of compatibility issues initially, due to the new driver model. I haven't heard a peep on this since SP1, and even got Myst to run on my machine. What games are YOU still having problems with?
Can't say I updated myself on current games having problems, can definitely say Half-Life still has several vista problems.

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Originally Posted by medion View Post
I have no idea what you're talking about here. Please enlighten me.
http://www.conversationexchange.com/...d-language.php

Changes keyboard layout from Qwerty to Dvorak ( Or other alternative keyboard layouts ). Vista is even more annoying than XP as it requires more changes done to it. The only way for them to work efficiently is to completely remove the qwerty option, or else they bug and glitch continuously. I can tell you from experience it is a pestering process with Vista if you ever want to share keyboard layouts, as where it is easier with XP.


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Originally Posted by medion View Post
Right-click desktop, click personalize. From there, select theme. From the theme menu, select Windows Classic. I love the gloss, but it is personal preference.
I'm positive there are still hundreds of annoying windows visual affects that not only consume memory but also will pester me.

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Originally Posted by medion View Post
If you do intend to upgrade to Windows 7, I'd recommend a new machine, or some upgraded hardware, and for you especially, Win 7 Business. It comes with a virtualized WinXP.
I'm not planning on changing Windows at all in an attempt to keep with things that work as the new "upgrades" are not something anyone should want.

I will only change when I completely have to in order to run programs, in all honesty I will probably just install Linux before I go to Win7 or Vista.
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:11 AM
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Can you name something that benefits me with Vista that is worth the amount of memory it requires?

Personally, when no extra benefits are acquired, I don't personally see a need for extra ram use. Particularly going from 100mb to 1gig of ram being used.
Honestly, if you saw no reason to upgrade, then you should not have upgraded. Vista does have some nice features, such as native support for SATA drives (installing a clean WinXP with SATA drives was always a pain), as well as Superfetch. Vista doesn't actually use 1GB of RAM, it uses more like 200-300MB. Superfetch pre-loads your most used programs into memory. If you have 4GB, it will use 4GB, etc. When you open one of these programs, they're already in memory, so they load MUCH faster. If you load a program that is not already in memory, Vista will make it the priority, and dump available memory for it. MAC OS X does something similar, it's just that Vista's Superfetch has a bad rep because it failed miserably prior to SP1.

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Can't say I updated myself on current games having problems, can definitely say Half-Life still has several vista problems.
I did some Googling, and Half Life 1 seems to work fine on Vista. What issues are you having with it?

Quote:
Changes keyboard layout from Qwerty to Dvorak ( Or other alternative keyboard layouts ). Vista is even more annoying than XP as it requires more changes done to it. The only way for them to work efficiently is to completely remove the qwerty option, or else they bug and glitch continuously. I can tell you from experience it is a pestering process with Vista if you ever want to share keyboard layouts, as where it is easier with XP.
Ahh, ok. I didn't know what this was, because it's not something that I ever deal with. Still, sounds like it would be annoying.

Quote:
I'm positive there are still hundreds of annoying windows visual affects that not only consume memory but also will pester me.
Negative. Just do what I told you to do, and they're all gone. It's the same layout from Vista Basic, which is the same as what was used in the old Win9X versions. Don't assume just because 3 or 4 clicks is too much work.

Quote:
I'm not planning on changing Windows at all in an attempt to keep with things that work as the new "upgrades" are not something anyone should want.
Just because you don't want the upgrades doesn't mean others won't. As a system builder, native SATA support is huge (Vista). As for Win 7, Netbooks will be much better with the native SSD support. Should at least prevent the more ignorant amongst us from trying to defrag their SSD. And if you already have XP on that old machine, please, keep it. It's not meant for Vista or 7. However, if you are running Vista, I'd encourage switching to 7. It's a bit more streamlined and efficient.

Quote:
I will only change when I completely have to in order to run programs, in all honesty I will probably just install Linux before I go to Win7 or Vista.
I agree with the first part, no point in upgrading if there's no benefit for you. As for Linux, I hope that works out for you.
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:14 AM
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fmywso,

What I want to know, is why you are so hot and bothered about such simple issues?

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Originally Posted by fmwyso View Post
I'm positive there are still hundreds of annoying windows visual affects that not only consume memory but also will pester me.
If you can't name them, then they mustn't be bothering you all that much

Quote:
Originally Posted by fmwyso View Post
Changes keyboard layout from Qwerty to Dvorak ( Or other alternative keyboard layouts ). Vista is even more annoying than XP as it requires more changes done to it. The only way for them to work efficiently is to completely remove the qwerty option, or else they bug and glitch continuously. I can tell you from experience it is a pestering process with Vista if you ever want to share keyboard layouts, as where it is easier with XP.
Seriously, out of the millions of users out there, how many use different keyboard layouts in english other then QWERTY? Why is this such a big problem? I had never heard of other keyboard layouts until I read an engadget article not so long ago. Obviously, this is not a big need and Microsoft is treating it accordingly. I do feel for you though, but is it such a massive problem? It may be annoying, but it is going against the grain of things

Quote:
Originally Posted by fmwyso View Post
I'm not planning on changing Windows at all in an attempt to keep with things that work as the new "upgrades" are not something anyone should want.

I will only change when I completely have to in order to run programs, in all honesty I will probably just install Linux before I go to Win7 or Vista.
You just seem bent out to hate-on Vista, Why?

Yes, Microsoft may have stuffed up, but still, after the SP's, it has become a good system, and on our machine here, with 2GB ram, it runs brilliantly straight out of the box. And to be honest, people I speak to who are not so tech-savvy yet have computers love vista. It can be easier to use then XP, and also allows them to maintain more control of their system with UAC - and not have viruses infect their machine like XP allowed.
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:25 AM
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It can be easier to use then XP, and also allows them to maintain more control of their system with UAC - and not have viruses infect their machine like XP allowed.
I honestly don't get the hate for UAC from him and others. Don't like it? Turn it off. Don't know how to turn it off? Then you probably are the kind of person that needs it on
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Old 10-05-2009, 02:15 AM
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-- I'm not going to quote anyone, too big of a post and i'm too lazy X_X --

Hmm... Hot and bothered about a simple issue like an os? I don't call it a simple issue especially when Windows is such a large OS. Secondly, computers have pretty much revolutionized the world and since Windows is the dominant OS I personally call it a pretty big issue when something fails. The fact that Microsoft continues to deal out crap that is unable to modified is simply beyond me. You cannot tell me Microsoft is crap considering Linux was made for many reasons.

I don't personally have vista, I only used it on School computers so I can't tell you what it is like when you disable the graphics. Sorry.

Oh, so because it is a small amount of people who want it... It is ok if they severely limit the use? Kind of like PAD's not supporting ogg, or having good sound cards because the typical person won't notice it. Hell, why is there even an ABi if only the most common things are important ( iPods are most common, i'm pretty sure ).

As far as the pull-over Vista has placed on several stupid people, I understand. Microsoft uses it's name and graphics to reel in non tech-saavy people to make them think everything is all good and well.

I have had XP/2000 for so long now, not once have I gotten a virus. I simply don't download stupid stuff.

To avoid a huge text wall: Windows is all that is bad for computers, it symbolizes a day and age where hardware is overloaded to support overloaded software. Software is merely something that works and optimization is left to the hardware to cost a lot of money and energy. Windows enforces a rule where those with the name get the game and they use ( abuse ) this rule to their advantage to smack down all software better than it ( Linux ). If companies supported Linux, Linux would be totally fine these days. But it isn't because Microsoft uses it's name and this petty conversation of comparing two bad products is merely the result of this monopoly. For god's sake, Linux isn't even considered here despite the fact that Vista is considered crappy by many.
-- I tried my best to avoid a text wall Q.Q --

HL1 claims everything works fine, many of my friends get BSOD's or full black screens as well as OpenGL/DirectX driver issues with Vista from HL1.

As far as native support for SATA goes, maybe it is my misunderstanding ( I don't personally get into hardware very much mainly because I can't afford to break any from playing with them ) but can't you buy a SATA driver and have all the problems fixed? I use a SATA hard drive and my brother was able to install it in a snap, I don't personally see why it was difficult for you? I'd actually like to hear what the problem is for installing SATA on XP ( I like to learn about hardware ^^ ).
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Old 10-05-2009, 05:12 AM
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I don't personally have vista, I only used it on School computers so I can't tell you what it is like when you disable the graphics. Sorry.
Quote:
HL1 claims everything works fine, many of my friends get BSOD's or full black screens as well as OpenGL/DirectX driver issues with Vista from HL1.
And here it is, exactly what I expected to find. You see, almost every time I get a Vista basher, and attempt to help them through their issues, they eventually admit that they themselves don't even own Vista, and that they've merely "heard" of problems from "friends" or other forums. Guess what bud, that's how all of this Vista bashing comes about. I can't troubleshoot your "friends' " problems. So all of that BS you spouted about Vista using too much RAM, or being slow on YOUR PC was bunk. And if you think Linux is going to be easier, I seriously pray you aren't going off of what you've "heard." Trust me, Linux is not easy for a novice.

Quote:
Oh, so because it is a small amount of people who want it... It is ok if they severely limit the use? Kind of like PAD's not supporting ogg, or having good sound cards because the typical person won't notice it. Hell, why is there even an ABi if only the most common things are important ( iPods are most common, i'm pretty sure ).
That's not what either of us said. I know that I said that you shouldn't upgrade unless there is a reason for YOU to upgrade. There are plenty of people that have use for Vista.

Quote:
Windows is all that is bad for computers, it symbolizes a day and age where hardware is overloaded to support overloaded software. Software is merely something that works and optimization is left to the hardware to cost a lot of money and energy. Windows enforces a rule where those with the name get the game and they use ( abuse ) this rule to their advantage to smack down all software better than it ( Linux ). If companies supported Linux, Linux would be totally fine these days. But it isn't because Microsoft uses it's name and this petty conversation of comparing two bad products is merely the result of this monopoly. For god's sake, Linux isn't even considered here despite the fact that Vista is considered crappy by many.
The average consumer isn't very tech savvy, and you need to be tech savvy to use Linux. Windows just works. It's also more secure than Linux by a long shot. That's part of the reason most businesses use either Windows or Unix.

Quote:
As far as native support for SATA goes, maybe it is my misunderstanding ( I don't personally get into hardware very much mainly because I can't afford to break any from playing with them ) but can't you buy a SATA driver and have all the problems fixed? I use a SATA hard drive and my brother was able to install it in a snap, I don't personally see why it was difficult for you? I'd actually like to hear what the problem is for installing SATA on XP ( I like to learn about hardware ^^ ).
Right, you can install a driver. However, XP itself doesn't support SATA natively. So what do you think happens when you try to install XP onto a SATA drive (fresh install)? It doesn't work. So what you need to do is make a SATA driver disk (floppy), and at some point during the fresh install, you need to interrupt the install process, insert the disc, load the drivers, reboot, then remove the disc, then resume the install. Oh, and make sure you load the proper SATA drivers specific to your motherboard, or you're screwed. Doing a fresh XP install on your Dell or other 3rd party PC with a new SATA based HDD? Good luck finding the right drivers for your proprietary mobo! (should be able to find a generic driver).

I don't even use a floppy on my Vista-based machine. And while it took about 90 minutes from start to finish on my last few XP builds, Vista loads in a snap. It's no more than 15-20 minutes for a complete reinstall of Vista, if that.
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:51 AM
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Vista is fine. Basically, the only issue with Vista is that you cant run it on an old computer. I have not had problems with it. I got it on a new laptop in March. Its a little resource heavy, but I have the proper hardware for it. No bothers here.

Where Linux is concerned, it has a long way to go to be usable by many types of customers. It has a great deal of personalization to it, but to the avg user, is hard just to install a media mgr system on it. Its waay to complex of an OS to ever be mainstream right now. In time, it will be nice to have a 3rd OS to compete in the market.

As for Windows 7, it is a substantial upgrade. Between the new 7 os, and the new Media Center, windows is really getting rolling. I suggest reading a lot of the in depth reviews on 7, they will point out all of the differences between that and Vista. To me, it looks like a ton of usability improvements and a nice heaping of eye candy. Their core was there with Vista-xp, now they need to compete with Apple for the real usability of the OS.
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Old 10-05-2009, 08:47 AM
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firstly gotta say it
I love vista, sucked hardcore when I got my laptop, for about 5 or so months it sucked, slow as a dog, then I started deleting programs, turning off features and disabling that stupid ass UAC
it sucks for games though, any games at all, Fly For Fun even gets a choppy ass frame rate on it, where on my mates and my dads old XP laptops it runs smooth as



wish I used Dvorak, but I don't, I probably should learn it or one of its alternatives
using QWERTY in this day and age seems insane since we are not chained to the mechanics of an old type writer


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Old 10-05-2009, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by medion View Post
And here it is, exactly what I expected to find. You see, almost every time I get a Vista basher, and attempt to help them through their issues, they eventually admit that they themselves don't even own Vista, and that they've merely "heard" of problems from "friends" or other forums. Guess what bud, that's how all of this Vista bashing comes about. I can't troubleshoot your "friends' " problems. So all of that BS you spouted about Vista using too much RAM, or being slow on YOUR PC was bunk. And if you think Linux is going to be easier, I seriously pray you aren't going off of what you've "heard." Trust me, Linux is not easy for a novice.
O_o. I did use Vista, I checked the memory and I can tell you that it sucks a ton. Do you honestly expect me to use Vista after all the complaints and blatant memory bloating? Your statement follows the pattern of, "Oh sure, you only stay away from rattle snakes because of crap you've HEARD!". Well, ya, I've heard it sucks and I try to stay away from them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by medion View Post
That's not what either of us said. I know that I said that you shouldn't upgrade unless there is a reason for YOU to upgrade. There are plenty of people that have use for Vista.
copeys did...
Quote:
Originally Posted by copeys
Seriously, out of the millions of users out there, how many use different keyboard layouts in english other then QWERTY? Why is this such a big problem? I had never heard of other keyboard layouts until I read an engadget article not so long ago. Obviously, this is not a big need and Microsoft is treating it accordingly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by medion View Post
The average consumer isn't very tech savvy, and you need to be tech savvy to use Linux. Windows just works. It's also more secure than Linux by a long shot. That's part of the reason most businesses use either Windows or Unix.
I installed and used Linux ( Fedora if i remember right? ) and the only problem I found was that it didn't have good graphics drivers for my card 8(. I was able to run DirectX etc. but the only problem I had was that it was slower than windows for games ( Q.Q ). Now that I don't play games, I'm sure linux will be easy to use.


Quote:
Originally Posted by medion View Post
I don't even use a floppy on my Vista-based machine.
Everyone should always have a floppy drive. As far as all the work and hassle, my bro finished it pretty quickly and I don't honestly see it as a difficulty. I see the difficulty of installing vista much more annoying than installing SATA.

Also, does it have SATAII support? O_o. Most importantly though, I don't think it matters considering I personally would rather get a SSD. I don't think those need any type of native support unlike a normal HD?

Ya dreamingthelife, I got lucky and was told about the layout young ( 2-3 years ago? ) and I decided to switch before I got old and too lazy to learn it.
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