FLAC Support?

[koolerz1569]

Can FLAC support be added via firmware update?

[CrowdAds]

[WalkGood]

Yes, but highly doubtful from ms for the zune.

[Zuniq]

Yes it can be supported inside the firmware. Even if they don't want to have flac support on the device, they can always put flac support inside the software (something like the current implementation of divx), with automatic conversion at sync.

There are no excuses for the lack of flac support. If Microsoft wants a serious premium media player and not just a playback device for young people and teens, they will implement flac support with one way or another. Its not so big deal really...I have my entire library in flac and it isn't even recognized by Zune software...thats a big shame...

[dfkt]

Well, they want to push their own awful, redundant WMA Lossless codec onto people, even if FLAC surpasses it in every way imaginable. Seems they always rather concoct their own proprietary sub-par stuff before supporting the de-facto open-source standards (at least until customer pressure gets too intense, as seen with XviD support). A big reason for pushing WMAL instead of FLAC is certainly that WMAL can be DRMed and 100% controlled, which FLAC can't.

[EnzoTen]

Originally Posted by WalkGood

Yes, but highly doubtful from ms for the zune.

They have added open source Xvid so i don't see FLAC as out of the question.

Originally Posted by dfkt

Well, they want to push their own awful, redundant WMA Lossless codec onto people, even if FLAC surpasses it in every way imaginable. Seems they always rather concoct their own proprietary sub-par stuff before supporting the de-facto open-source standards (at least until customer pressure gets too intense, as seen with XviD support). A big reason for pushing WMAL instead of FLAC is certainly that WMAL can be DRMed and 100% controlled, which FLAC can't.

From having discussions with development teams its not about evil corporations pushing their own DRM format- its about putting finite development resources into features that customers want the most. Its sort of like you say "until customer pressure gets too intense", but its more like they will add it "when enough people care about FLAC". Sure i agree that FLAC is the standard for lossless audio, but as of now, not enough people care to warrant allocating development resources to this feature. Enough people cared about Xvid so it was added. Currently Xvid metadata handling needs to be fixed and i would rather see development resources put into fixing these issues rather than into adding FLAC support.

[dfkt]

Surely no customer "wanted" Microsoft to go ahead and brew their own lossless stew, since FLAC has been available and established for years. So they could have saved their finite resources by doing the right (and easier) thing instead of doing "their" thing from scratch, as I see it. True, the majority of people don't care about FLAC - but nobody at all cares about WMA Lossless.

[musichound]

I'm with dfkt on this. I think Microsoft is concerned with software piracy, hence, the lack of any open encoders. As long as the Zune is locked into the dreadful Zune Marketplace software, they can control on how the Zune receives music.

[EnzoTen]

Originally Posted by musichound

I think Microsoft is concerned with software piracy, hence, the lack of any open encoders.

If they were concerned with piracy they sure as hell wouldn't have supported Xvid.

[Zuniq]

I still hope and "push" for Flac support and i believe that there are many people who also care about quality in sound....and yes, if they have implemented divx then why not give us flac support also?

[Eeore]

FLAC has huge file sizes, I'll never understand the point of having it on a flash-based PMP. The files are going to take up so much space you won't have room for a larger collection.

That's just my experience with FLAC though.

[Zuniq]

Originally Posted by Eeore

FLAC has huge file sizes, I'll never understand the point of having it on a flash-based PMP. The files are going to take up so much space you won't have room for a larger collection.

That's just my experience with FLAC though.

I wouldn't say that they are huge for today's memory standards...a 32gb Zune HD can hold 80-100 flac albums...this is more than decent for the average audiophile IMO...i don't need more albums inside the device. The point is to give people the choice of having high quality files in a high quality device....everyone else could still use lossy mp3 files if they want to have all of their albums in their players.

...and its not only about memory capacity and flac files inside the player...outside the player, many people have big music libraries in Flac and Zune software doesn't even recognize them...so, we can't sync our content properly, without losing loads of time...it just doesn't work.

So, if Microsoft can't implement flac inside Zune HD player, they can at least add flac support (with auto-conversion at sync) inside the software...Its quite simple.

[koolerz1569]

Thanks for all the replies. I just bought a Sansa Clip+ so I can play my flac files... hahaha

[medion]

Proprietary codecs allow for DRM, which the RIAA loves. WMA is MS's answer to audio compression with support for DRM, as the RIAA wants. The only other option for MS would have been to use Apple's codec, and no way they pay royalties to a competitor if they can avoid it.

I agree that FLAC is superior to WMA. However, I've never met a person outside of this forum who knew what FLAC was. So, if you want a player that supports it, why even look at the Zune forums when you already know it's not a supported feature? No one in this thread, except the OP, didn't already know that MS does not use FLAC.

[Zuniq]

Originally Posted by medion

I've never met a person outside of this forum who knew what FLAC was.

Probably you don't know people who really care about recording quality...this is not the rule for everybody. More than half of the people i know, use only flac.

Originally Posted by medion

So, if you want a player that supports it, why even look at the Zune forums when you already know it's not a supported feature?

Because, like in many other devices, when a feature is requested by many people and its possible to be implemented, then companies will add it. Also, sometimes there are uncompleted feature lists which companies complete after a few months, especially with products which depend heavily in their software/firmware...

At least, Microsoft can support flac in software only, and I will always look and requesting for that feature everywhere.

[medion]

Originally Posted by Zuniq

Probably you don't know people who really care about recording quality...this is not the rule for everybody. More than half of the people i know, use only flac.

My point was that the general public does not know what flac is. The two most popular (by usage, not features) audio programs, Itunes and WMP, do not support flac. MS isn't focusing on features unless it's something that the Ipod generation likes.

Originally Posted by Zuniq

Because, like in many other devices, when a feature is requested by many people and its possible to be implemented, then companies will add it. Also, sometimes there are uncompleted feature lists which companies complete after a few months, especially with products which depend heavily in their software/firmware...

At least, Microsoft can support flac in software only, and I will always look and requesting for that feature everywhere.

I agree that we should be able to request the feature. My point is that we have the same handful of people coming in here and constantly complaining about the lack of support, and the perception that MS will never include it. That's far different than requesting a feature.

[wrath6647]

So who do we fire off an email to to request such a feature? I'm very interested in this and would be more than willing to send a few emails, one from each of my email accounts but not spam them.

[Briankealing]

Originally Posted by medion

My point was that the general public does not know what flac is. The two most popular (by usage, not features) audio programs, Itunes and WMP, do not support flac. MS isn't focusing on features unless it's something that the Ipod generation likes.




I agree that we should be able to request the feature. My point is that we have the same handful of people coming in here and constantly complaining about the lack of support, and the perception that MS will never include it. That's far different than requesting a feature.

What this guy said.
I never heard of FLAC until my geeky friend told me about it.
I'm quite satisfied with my collection of MP3's.

[Here-I-Come]

i felt laggy when i play WMA on my zune hd

[Satellite_6]

FLAC is a waste of memory on DAPs anyway. Medium or high bit rate lossy files combined with a good custom EQ is all you need for really great sound on a DAP. . . it's unfortunate there is no custom EQ, this is a much bigger problem IMO.

[Jacob]

I wouldn't say they definitely won't support FLAC, but it is unlikely.
Question, though. Why do you want FLAC? It's for archiving music, so you can put it into more lossy formats. You won't be able to tell the difference between 320kbps and FLAC.