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  #41  
Old 02-11-2010, 07:42 AM
shakermaker41 shakermaker41 is offline
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I agree that its an inappropriate song to have come up in the channel, but I think firing or suspending the guy is an overreaction. I understand you don't want your little son or daughter to hear it, but having someone lose their job or suspend their pay is a little extreme. I can take a kid to a football game and they might hear swear words from the peanut gallery. It happens - a parent's job should be to make sure they don't swear around their kids and that when a swear word does pop up they are there to explain that it's a bad word and that it shouldn't be used.

Fire him? Are you kidding me?

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  #42  
Old 02-11-2010, 11:24 AM
jeffnles1 jeffnles1 is offline
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Originally Posted by shakermaker41 View Post
I agree that its an inappropriate song to have come up in the channel, but I think firing or suspending the guy is an overreaction. I understand you don't want your little son or daughter to hear it, but having someone lose their job or suspend their pay is a little extreme. I can take a kid to a football game and they might hear swear words from the peanut gallery. It happens - a parent's job should be to make sure they don't swear around their kids and that when a swear word does pop up they are there to explain that it's a bad word and that it shouldn't be used.

Fire him? Are you kidding me?
I'm not sure if really firing is the right recourse, but one must consider that Zune Pass is a service the MS is selling to consumers. If consumers do not renew the Zune Pass because of dissatisfaction over the service, MS looses money.

I haven't checked today, but as of 10:00pm EST last night, it was still there in both the marketplace and on the Zune. I checked for channel updates and it showed up to date.

Is my $15.00 per month going to break the Zune bank? Nope. However, multiply that by several others and the impact starts being felt.

What I believe to be true is MS is starting a new service. They do very little to advertise ZuneHD or Zune Pass which means they must be hoping for viral marketing to sell the service. User dissatisfaction in things like DRM issues, obscene / explicit songs showing up unexpectedly in a channel, slowness to the market for various apps, and other miscellaneous errors that are both listed here and on the Zune.net forums do very little to further the positive viral marketing MS seems to be relying upon to sell both the device and the service.

The one poster who said it is not mission critical I do take exception with. Any service a company like MS is selling to consumers should be viewed as a profit center. I would think MS Shareholders would consider offending consumers and then doing little to nothing to resolve the issue would beg to differ with the mission critical statement. Money is money and if Zune does not sell enough Zune Passes to justify the cost of operating the service, the service will stop (yes, that is an absolute statement).

So, should the person really be fired? It's not my call. However, the business economics are pretty straightforward. If enough consumers are offended, dissatisfied, or otherwise do not see enough value to the Zune Pass to offset the $15.00 monthly fee, Zune Pass will stop and whomever is responsible for populating content will loose their jobs anyway.

MS won't pay someone to do nothing. If Zune Pass gets shut down, some of the top performers MAY be able to move to other parts of the organization. The rest will most likely be laid off, offered voluntary separation packages, or early retirement packages depending on internal MS HR policy. If this is done by contractors, MS would most likely exercise the contract cancellation clause that I'm almost positive their purchasing organization puts in such contracts.

In the end, should they be fired? Your guess is as good as mine. If the nagging bugs and consumer dissatisfaction (just go read the Zune Net support forum and see the discussions here that should worry Dave and others at MS), the end result will be the same.

Jeff

  #43  
Old 02-11-2010, 01:20 PM
VagabonDOOM VagabonDOOM is offline
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As far as firing someone, I doubt there is a single person to blame for this. It seems like a systematic error. If you are going to stop your Zune Pass, there must be other underlying reasons as well. It seems like you've been unimpressed with the selection of the types of music you enjoy for some time and this was the last straw. If this one single song were the only reason for being as upset as you seem, then you may need some sort of anger management in the near future.

I feel that waiting for the addition of Smart DJ to the device may be worth it, but you've already made up your mind and I understand that. Americans vote with their dollars and you've chosen to no longer support a company that at times definitely neglects the entire Zune division (or so it seems). I can't drop my support though, as the HD is a gorgeous piece of hardware and has so much potential.

Your over-reaction is what keeps words vulgar. If people would just chill out and not make such a fuss over this stuff which you yourself said is childish, cursing wouldn't even be an issue.

  #44  
Old 02-11-2010, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxis View Post
Im sorry i have to agree with the forum poster.

Fuck her gently ?? are you kidding me ?? How would any of you like your six year old singing fuck her gently out loud out of the blue just because she heard it on her zune.
Unfortunately, some of us here can't look past profanity in something and look at the deeper meaning. Judging a song by surface lyrics is downright stupid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxis
The guy should be fired or at the bare minimum given a strong suspention...that type of error is downright unacceptable.

I hear people talking about this economy.. Listen here bud ... You either sink or swim to keep your job .. You cant monitor a playlist for the appropriate content .. your sunk and SOMEONE ELSE will be very willing to Swim in your replacement .. This is a business after all.
A very cruel take on the business, if I may say so myself. I highly doubt you've experienced unemployment or otherwise, you wouldn't be swinging around your words of judgment so easily.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxis
My expectations judging from past performance by the zune team is rock bottom and this is coming from someone who has 3 zunes and a zune subcription.. But this will all end in due course. Even the most hard core supporters will leave the scene given enough reasons.

My 2 cents
Given enough reasons? What reasons?

  #45  
Old 02-11-2010, 10:15 PM
adeltaY adeltaY is offline
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Originally Posted by weedalin View Post


A very cruel take on the business, if I may say so myself. I highly doubt you've experienced unemployment or otherwise, you wouldn't be swinging around your words of judgment so easily.
Ah, but that is the Capitalist system, which lacks compassion for the workers and employees. It certainly isn't right, but it is the system in place.

  #46  
Old 02-11-2010, 10:37 PM
jeffnles1 jeffnles1 is offline
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Originally Posted by weedalin View Post
Unfortunately, some of us here can't look past profanity in something and look at the deeper meaning. Judging a song by surface lyrics is downright stupid.
Wow, look who's making absolute statements now?


[
Quote:
Originally Posted by weedalin View Post
]A very cruel take on the business, if I may say so myself. I highly doubt you've experienced unemployment or otherwise, you wouldn't be swinging around your words of judgment so easily.
From the mouths of babes. At the ripe old age of 15, how many jobs have you had and how much unemployment have you personally experienced (not friends or family, but you personally)? Yep, that's what I thought.

One just has to love about the Internet is any 15 year old can become an expert on all aspects of life.

How's that for an ad-homiem for you? (at least I know what the phrase means)

Now, back on topic, offensive and explicit language is, to me, well offensive and explicit. Subscriptions that contain explicit language should be clearly labeled. This was not and other than sloppy programming, or a careless employee, I can find no other logical excuse (with the possible exception of MS just doesn't care and I find that hard to believe).

I'm fairly certain the MS Zune Team does not want to offend the consumers who actually make it possible for them to have jobs.

What I do find sad is that the morals of some in your generation have slipped to the point where you see this as not a big deal and just normal language. You may grow up and have children of your own some day and then perhaps your attitude will change. Time will tell.

As for the earlier poster who said this must have been just the last straw, he's 100% correct.

So far, what I've seen from Zune Pass is 10 songs at $1.50 each. So, I can stream some tunes, I don't see that as being worth $15.00 per month. The lack of a positive value proposition combined with having songs I consider to be both offensive and juvenile (and yes, I did listen to the song all the way through and still found it offensive and juvenile) getting loaded on my Zune through a subscription to what is supposed to be a channel for bluegrass music is enough to make me say Zune Pass is not the tool for me.

I can buy songs all day for less than a buck fifty and not have to deal with the hassle of having something like "Fuck her Gently" showing up on my player unannounced.

Do I need anger management? Nope, I'm not angry. There is a huge difference between anger and being a dissatisfied consumer who chooses to spend his money elsewhere. I'm a dissatisfied consumer, but honstely, I'm not a bit angry. I don't personally know anyone on the Zune team so how could I be angry with them? Being angry with someone you've never met would be silly and a waste of time and energy.

Quite frankly, I'm finding it to be a waste of time trying to defend myself over why I was offended.

I'm 49 years old and don't have mommy and daddy providing a roof over my head or food on my table. I have to go out in the real world every day and earn a living and make real choices on what gets my hard earned money. It makes no sense to me to spend my money to be offended.

It's really a simple equation. No anger involved at all.

If this is they way the Zune Team wishes to run their business, more power to them. They'll be doing it without my $180 per year.

I hope the business model works for them. If it doesn't oh well, the world is full of good ideas, only a few of them actually make money.

'nuff said on the topic.


Jeff

  #47  
Old 02-12-2010, 01:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnles1 View Post
Wow, look who's making absolute statements now?

How was that an absolute statement? The only reason you had for saying it was offensive was that it had profanity. And sorry, saying that songs are offensive purely because of profanity is ignorant; there are tons of songs without profanity that are far more offensive. The song is more than about 'banging a chick gently,' it's about treating a woman with kindness; the ending stanza is just a humorous ending to the song.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnles1
From the mouths of babes. At the ripe old age of 15, how many jobs have you had and how much unemployment have you personally experienced (not friends or family, but you personally)? Yep, that's what I thought.

One just has to love about the Internet is any 15 year old can become an expert on all aspects of life.

How's that for an ad-homiem for you? (at least I know what the phrase means)
-_- Which is precisely why I was putting forth a more open perspective, rather than a closed one. Did I ever say I've experienced unemployment? No: I'm simply saying that one who hasn't experienced unemployment cannot possibly make such a rash judgment on who should be or not (I was not). I don't know about unemployment; that is why I don't try to make grand, sweeping, judgmental statements that would (in my eyes) unnecessarily place certain individuals on the streets. Now, that was an ad-hominem; trying to use my age in such a way to try and say that my point was not valid is a characteristic of such an attack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnles1
Now, back on topic, offensive and explicit language is, to me, well offensive and explicit. Subscriptions that contain explicit language should be clearly labeled. This was not and other than sloppy programming, or a careless employee, I can find no other logical excuse (with the possible exception of MS just doesn't care and I find that hard to believe).

I'm fairly certain the MS Zune Team does not want to offend the consumers who actually make it possible for them to have jobs.
But does that warrant someone getting fired, and possibly becoming homeless or otherwise incapacitated in this bad economy? You're assuming here that someone MEANT to put explicit material on the channel. It was probably a coding hiccup that wasn't detected earlier; by your logic, I suppose the Zune team should label all their channels as explicit because of the chance of that hiccup happening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnles1
What I do find sad is that the morals of some in your generation have slipped to the point where you see this as not a big deal and just normal language. You may grow up and have children of your own some day and then perhaps your attitude will change. Time will tell.
Ah, I should have known this would come up. Do you really think age is an indication of how moral someone is? How can you judge others' morals by your own sense of morals? HOW? I'm a strong believer in the fact that intent makes everything. A racist joke with the intent to amuse, rather than attack, is simply a joke, nothing more. A song with profanity with the intent to amuse and not offend shouldn't offend either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnles1
As for the earlier poster who said this must have been just the last straw, he's 100% correct.

So far, what I've seen from Zune Pass is 10 songs at $1.50 each. So, I can stream some tunes, I don't see that as being worth $15.00 per month. The lack of a positive value proposition combined with having songs I consider to be both offensive and juvenile (and yes, I did listen to the song all the way through and still found it offensive and juvenile) getting loaded on my Zune through a subscription to what is supposed to be a channel for bluegrass music is enough to make me say Zune Pass is not the tool for me.

I can buy songs all day for less than a buck fifty and not have to deal with the hassle of having something like "Fuck her Gently" showing up on my player unannounced.
Did this happen more than once? If it did, then this makes sense. Otherwise, no. Making generalizations about future incidents because of one random incident is illogical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnles1
Do I need anger management? Nope, I'm not angry. There is a huge difference between anger and being a dissatisfied consumer who chooses to spend his money elsewhere. I'm a dissatisfied consumer, but honstely, I'm not a bit angry. I don't personally know anyone on the Zune team so how could I be angry with them? Being angry with someone you've never met would be silly and a waste of time and energy.

Quite frankly, I'm finding it to be a waste of time trying to defend myself over why I was offended.
Sure, you were offended; I can't change that. But why should someone get fired simply because you got offended? And I find this quite ironic, actually; from your OP and the title (I assuming here that the misspelling probably meant that you were so angry you didn't check it before you pressed 'Post Reply') implies that you were livid at the fact that this song came up (apparently once) on a channel that you had subscribed to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnles1
I'm 49 years old and don't have mommy and daddy providing a roof over my head or food on my table. I have to go out in the real world every day and earn a living and make real choices on what gets my hard earned money. It makes no sense to me to spend my money to be offended.
Who's making the absolute statement now? You don't know anything about the lives of any adolescent that may be on these forums. How can you imply such things about them?

Last edited by weedalin; 02-12-2010 at 02:01 AM. Reason: Revised wording, extra content

  #48  
Old 02-12-2010, 01:58 AM
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I really don't see the big deal about this...and I'm certainly not a kid(30's)...
I see it as pretty sad that MS is not doing a good job with the programming as I find the channels basically suck for the most part...they rotate the same artists over and over.
The language doesn't bother me. I have children but I certainly would not allow them to be playing with a device or the computer at an age that this sort of language has not already been heard by them...I would suggest that's bad parenting to let children do what they like without parental limitations rather than lack of moral's...

Just because someone is young (15 in this case) doesn't give you the right to talk down to them like that...I've met many a 15 year old that is far more mature in may respects than a 30 year old...

  #49  
Old 02-12-2010, 07:26 AM
Klazio Klazio is offline
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Microsoft should consider using crowdsourcing to improve the channels. There are a lot of people who would love to create a channel with fresh, high quality songs in their favoutite genre.

  #50  
Old 02-12-2010, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by lip View Post
Just because someone is young (15 in this case) doesn't give you the right to talk down to them like that...
I agree. I find it saddening that you talk down to someone just because they have a "mommy [and/or a] daddy" providing a roof over their head. I understand why you are unhappy with this situation. I happen to enjoy the song, but that doesn't mean that if I had a kid, I'd want them running around singing the song. I think that your view is a little extreme, as far as firing someone over it, but you are entitled to your own opinion (and yes, I have held multiple high pressure jobs, even though I am only 22). I think everyone just needs to relax a little. This forum is supposed to be enjoyed, and I'm all for a good debate, but I think it's gone a little too far when people start taking potshots at each other.

  #51  
Old 02-12-2010, 08:16 AM
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Breizhune Breizhune is offline
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When I had a look at the post I thought it was "really" serious.

I live in France and I'm really glad to.

Jeffnless1, what are you listening to ? As you're 49, what were you listening at 15 ?

We can go back in the 50's and .... no we can't.
[Ironic mode ON] The Blues is played by black people and Rock 'n Roll is Devil's music. [Ironic mode OFF]

The PMRC and other's are one of the worst thing US created for the music industry.
Since, on 25% of the "US" mus sold in France as the "Parental Advisory" sticker. If they wouldn't have, they would sell 50% less.

  #52  
Old 02-12-2010, 09:20 AM
Mr Manager Mr Manager is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klazio View Post
Microsoft should consider using crowdsourcing to improve the channels. There are a lot of people who would love to create a channel with fresh, high quality songs in their favoutite genre.
I think that's a great idea. I have a Zune pass, but I've stayed clear of the channels and picks just because they don't seem very helpful or interesting to me. Basically, the Zune software seems to have identified 8-10 artists that are roughly similar to music I listen to and enjoy, and it just keeps pushing the same stuff over and over. Why not take advantage of the broader musical knowledge/tastes of other users in the "social?"

  #53  
Old 02-12-2010, 10:54 AM
jeffnles1 jeffnles1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weedalin View Post
How was that an absolute statement? The only reason you had for saying it was offensive was that it had profanity. And sorry, saying that songs are offensive purely because of profanity is ignorant; there are tons of songs without profanity that are far more offensive. The song is more than about 'banging a chick gently,' it's about treating a woman with kindness; the ending stanza is just a humorous ending to the song.

-_- Which is precisely why I was putting forth a more open perspective, rather than a closed one. Did I ever say I've experienced unemployment? No: I'm simply saying that one who hasn't experienced unemployment cannot possibly make such a rash judgment on who should be or not (I was not). I don't know about unemployment; that is why I don't try to make grand, sweeping, judgmental statements that would (in my eyes) unnecessarily place certain individuals on the streets. Now, that was an ad-hominem; trying to use my age in such a way to try and say that my point was not valid is a characteristic of such an attack.

But does that warrant someone getting fired, and possibly becoming homeless or otherwise incapacitated in this bad economy? You're assuming here that someone MEANT to put explicit material on the channel. It was probably a coding hiccup that wasn't detected earlier; by your logic, I suppose the Zune team should label all their channels as explicit because of the chance of that hiccup happening.


Ah, I should have known this would come up. Do you really think age is an indication of how moral someone is? How can you judge others' morals by your own sense of morals? HOW? I'm a strong believer in the fact that intent makes everything. A racist joke with the intent to amuse, rather than attack, is simply a joke, nothing more. A song with profanity with the intent to amuse and not offend shouldn't offend either.

Did this happen more than once? If it did, then this makes sense. Otherwise, no. Making generalizations about future incidents because of one random incident is illogical.

Sure, you were offended; I can't change that. But why should someone get fired simply because you got offended? And I find this quite ironic, actually; from your OP and the title (I assuming here that the misspelling probably meant that you were so angry you didn't check it before you pressed 'Post Reply') implies that you were livid at the fact that this song came up (apparently once) on a channel that you had subscribed to.


Who's making the absolute statement now? You don't know anything about the lives of any adolescent that may be on these forums. How can you imply such things about them?


There is humor left in the world. Thank you. Got my smile for the day. I just wish I knew half as much today as I thought I did when I was 15.

Last edited by jeffnles1; 02-12-2010 at 11:37 AM.

  #54  
Old 02-12-2010, 12:06 PM
MonkeyMhz MonkeyMhz is offline
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Originally Posted by jeffnles1 View Post


There is humor left in the world. Thank you. Got my smile for the day. I just wish I knew half as much today as I thought I did when I was 15.
I have to say your quite rude, I agree with most of weedalin. Why would age make a difference, I love how you come to the conclusion of firing someone when its probably automated. I agree its stupid there shouldn't be content like that without a warning however, what if it was on your sons, would it really make that big of a difference? I can guarantee you they will hear much much much worse things in school or on the streets. Also saying your done with your Zune Pass just because of that 1 incident is very childish as well as finding big/strange words and saying at least you know what they mean, I had to google ad-homiem to see what it was.

  #55  
Old 02-12-2010, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyMhz View Post
I have to say your quite rude, I agree with most of weedalin. Why would age make a difference, I love how you come to the conclusion of firing someone when its probably automated. I agree its stupid there shouldn't be content like that without a warning however, what if it was on your sons, would it really make that big of a difference? I can guarantee you they will hear much much much worse things in school or on the streets. Also saying your done with your Zune Pass just because of that 1 incident is very childish as well as finding big/strange words and saying at least you know what they mean, I had to google ad-homiem to see what it was.
The ad-hominem jab was at me; I used it out of context in a place where it didn't make sense. I suppose I should thank Jeff for making a farce of this debate. I'm quite saddened as well.

Last edited by weedalin; 02-12-2010 at 02:01 PM.

  #56  
Old 02-12-2010, 03:45 PM
jeffnles1 jeffnles1 is offline
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Originally Posted by weedalin View Post
The ad-hominem jab was at me; I used it out of context in a place where it didn't make sense. I suppose I should thank Jeff for making a farce of this debate. I'm quite saddened as well.
Weedalin,
Ready to call a truce?

If you go back to page 1 of the thread, a couple posts disagreed with my conclusion, but yours was the first one that was a personal attack and flame at me.

So, you ready to bury the hatched?

The debate is really not a farce. The debate at hand is should consumers be expected to pay for sloppy programming or careless employees and how MS should handle sloppy code or careless employees. You may disagree with my "fire them today" comment and to be honest, that may have been over the top.

However offending consumers in any shape or form is not the way to stay in business.

I have every right to be offended by something I find offensive.

You, too have used some pretty strong phrases in this debate (i.e. judging a song by its lyrics is stupid) so there is culpability on your part here, my friend.

I have found the entire flame war to become quite tiring.

I've offered an olive branch, are you willing to accept it?

Jeff

ps. I did get a personal email from someone at Zune. Let's see what goes from there.
js

Jeff

  #57  
Old 02-12-2010, 04:25 PM
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Well, I'm glad there are efforts being made to cool everything down in here. My two cents: weedalin, you were a bit too touchy and you picked at Jeff a bit too much, and finally you got a rise out of him. I don't see any attack on you from him until page 3 of this thread. Jeff was civil til then. But let's get on with it.

As for the topic itself, as was probably said before in the thread at some point, this sounds like a somewhat common problem in general with digital music whether in your own collection or from some online service - music, bands, songs, albums, are commonly horribly mistagged. And I'll bet that's what happened here. Whoever MS licensed this song from gave it the wrong genre tag, it was randomly picked by the Zune Channel in an automated fashion, and the result is this.

I imagine the answer should/would be that someone at MS needs to screen the songs of the more obscure, automated channels before updating them. If someone is in charge of that, they need to take it a little more seriously. If I was a die-hard bluegrass fan, and this song popped up, I'd find it extremely odd and would probably lose faith in the whole idea of channels. If I subscribe to the Bluegrass channel, I want to hear Bluegrass - not nine bluegrass songs and some other random song. The fact that the "other" song in this case was one some people might find objectionable makes it even worse (for those people anyway).

  #58  
Old 02-12-2010, 05:36 PM
Maxis Maxis is offline
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Weedalin
Unfortunately, some of us here can't look past profanity in something and look at the deeper meaning. Judging a song by surface lyrics is downright stupid.


Sorry some of us get VERY OFFENDED by profanity.. Yes there are people like that.. who are raised differently or have been raised to recognise what is decent versus clearly vulgar.

Weedalin
A very cruel take on the business, if I may say so myself. I highly doubt you've experienced unemployment or otherwise, you wouldn't be swinging around your words of judgment so easily.

Well it looks like your wrong on that count .. I have suspended (been suspended) and fired people for their incompetence.. Added to the fact that i work in the healthcare industry.. there is little if any tolerance for non performance and errors. I am accountable for my performance and i represent my company and its image. I have no qualms "swinging around those words".. People with serious jobs know what accountability is about. Your fine as long as you do your job .. PROPERLY

Weedalin
Given enough reasons? What reasons?

Lets see .. from personal experience..
Hardware
Lack of certain core features (an actual equalizer)
some zunes dont even HAVE presets... (I never even bothered to touch those models). Theres a 90+ page petition thats active to this day asking for a proper equalizer.. You would think they would get the picture by now..

Firmware
A very shoddy implementation of the internet browser. Why put an internet browser on the device when its gonna start putting placeholders after 3 mins of usage on a picture intensive website?

Software and DRM
Spending 40 dollars on an album i had to buy not once but twice due to DRM and MS convenient misrepresentation when purchasing their DRM laden WMA files versus MP3's. Considering i bought the damnned thing one would assume it SHOULD play on my windows xp64 system no probs .. but Nooooo just because its WMA they are required to put drm in it.. in my opinion thats absolutely ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that i had to reformat my system after it crashed..I thaught i was ok i would just reverse sync the thing after i get the comp up and running.. So i got it up and running and reversed synced the album ... Gee wiz .. guess what didnt play?? The same album i spent 20 bucks for to purchase 6 months ago.. the excuse is the album is no longer on the marketplace .. o really ?? The album was there alright .. now its in mp3. Instead of being nice and help out a long standing device owner and zune subscriber they INSISTED i buy the album over again .. even after it was verified that i had purchased the album 6 months before and was in posession of the now USELESS drmed WMA files.. After buying it again .. that was my last zune purchase .. and i only did it because i needed it.

Painfully slow and nonsensical app development.
That facebook app was supposed to be released when ? And what of the people who want to use the device for something other than the overly simplistic games they seem to want to populate the thin with ? Wheres the innovation and RAPID DEVELOPMENT promised ?

Marketing of the device and zune service?

Click on the link
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/14594058

Thats my impression of what they have been doing..

Im not even sure you were there when the early adopters had to use zune software version 2 .. that was a total charlie foxtrot from day one.


But i digress... Ive owned a zune since release day of zune 30 .. I think im more than entitled to pass a little judgement on the entire project's development from then till now.

Dont bother writing the defense im in no mood to argue the points.. Ive done that a couple times already. MS has had their chances with me.

Im figuratively "heading towards the exit" from the zune "scene"

Maxis

Last edited by Maxis; 02-12-2010 at 06:00 PM.

  #59  
Old 02-12-2010, 06:08 PM
weedalin's Avatar
weedalin weedalin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxis View Post
Weedalin
Unfortunately, some of us here can't look past profanity in something and look at the deeper meaning. Judging a song by surface lyrics is downright stupid.


Sorry some of us get VERY OFFENDED by profanity.. Yes there are people like that.. who are raised differently or have been raised to recognise what is decent versus clearly vulgar.
There is a difference between being offended by profanity and being offended by profanity and making questionable judgments because of the offense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxim
Weedalin
A very cruel take on the business, if I may say so myself. I highly doubt you've experienced unemployment or otherwise, you wouldn't be swinging around your words of judgment so easily.

Well it looks like your wrong on that count .. I have suspended (been suspended) and fired people for their incompetence.. Added to the fact that i work in the healthcare industry.. there is little if any tolerance for non performance and errors. I am accountable for my performance and i represent my company and its image. I have no qualms "swinging around those words".. People with serious jobs know what accountability is about. Your fine as long as you do your job .. PROPERLY
Health-care is quite different from technology. While health is of absolute importance and mistakes like these wouldn't (and shouldn't) be met with a light hand, this is the technology industry. Snags in coding occur all the time. Being suspended isn't the same as being fired. Suspension is temporary. A firing is permanent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxim
Weedalin
Given enough reasons? What reasons?

Lets see .. from personal experience..
Hardware
Lack of certain core features (an actual equalizer)
some zunes dont even HAVE presets... (I never even bothered to touch those models). Theres a 90+ page petition thats active to this day asking for a proper equalizer.. You would think they would get the picture by now..
So . . . you think the hardware sucks because there's no custom EQ? How shallow is that? Please, provide a link to this 90+ page petition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxim
Firmware
A very shoddy implementation of the internet browser. Why put an internet browser on the device when its gonna start putting placeholders after 3 mins of usage on a picture intensive website?
You realize there's far more to firmware than an internet browser, right? If you had bothered to look at Medion's objective comparison of mobile browsers, you would know that the browser performs remarkably well in areas that require brute force-computing and falls flat in the areas of Javascript and its helpers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxim
Software and DRM
Spending 40 dollars on an album i had to buy not once but twice due to DRM and MS convenient misrepresentation when purchasing their DRM laden WMA files versus MP3's. Considering i bought the damnned thing one would assume it SHOULD play on my windows xp64 system no probs .. but Nooooo just because its WMA they are required to put drm in it.. in my opinion thats absolutely ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that i had to reformat my system after it crashed..I thaught i was ok i would just reverse sync the thing after i get the comp up and running.. So i got it up and running and reversed synced the album ... Gee wiz .. guess what didnt play?? The same album i spent 20 bucks for to purchase 6 months ago.. the excuse is the album is no longer on the marketplace .. o really ?? The album was there alright .. now its in mp3. Instead of being nice and help out a long standing device owner and zune subscriber they INSISTED i buy the album over again .. even after it was verified that i had purchased the album 6 months before and was in posession of the now USELESS drmed WMA files.. After buying it again .. that was my last zune purchase .. and i only did it because i needed it.
I'm sorry that happened to you, but don't you think you're being a little to tunnel-minded here? There could have been any number of reasons why the files failed to play or why your system crashed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxim
Painfully slow and nonsensical app development.
That facebook app was supposed to be released when ? And what of the people who want to use the device for something other than the overly simplistic games they seem to want to populate the thin with ? Wheres the innovation and RAPID DEVELOPMENT promised ?

Im not even sure you were there when the early adopters had to use zune software version 2 .. that was a total charlie foxtrot from day one.
Don't try and make points about things that don't exist anymore. Zune 3.0+ has been, from day one, an excellent media player. Zune 3.0- need not be spoken about because it doesn't exist anymore. I'm quite aware that the previous software was essentially WMP with a Zune skin plopped on it to try and hide the enormous piece of crap that it was.
If you bought this device for an amazing app experience, I'm sorry, you should have spent your money on something else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxim
But i digress... Ive owned a zune since release day of zune 30 .. I think im more than entitled to pass a little judgement on the entire project's development from then till now.

Dont bother writing the defense im in no mood to argue the points.. Ive done that a couple times already. MS has had their chances with me.
How long you've owned a device or have been a customer of a company doesn't determine your ability to make logical arguments about the device in question. I've seen Apple fanboys who've supported Apple for the longest time be unable to make good points about their products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnles1 View Post
Weedalin,
Ready to call a truce?

If you go back to page 1 of the thread, a couple posts disagreed with my conclusion, but yours was the first one that was a personal attack and flame at me.

So, you ready to bury the hatched?

The debate is really not a farce. The debate at hand is should consumers be expected to pay for sloppy programming or careless employees and how MS should handle sloppy code or careless employees. You may disagree with my "fire them today" comment and to be honest, that may have been over the top.

However offending consumers in any shape or form is not the way to stay in business.

I have every right to be offended by something I find offensive.

You, too have used some pretty strong phrases in this debate (i.e. judging a song by its lyrics is stupid) so there is culpability on your part here, my friend.

I have found the entire flame war to become quite tiring.

I've offered an olive branch, are you willing to accept it?

Jeff

ps. I did get a personal email from someone at Zune. Let's see what goes from there.
js

Jeff
Sure, I would love to stop and settle our differences.
Both of us have made overly rash and critical judgments/statements, some of which might even amount to flames. I want to apologize for any harsh wording I used and any flames I typed. So, a truce.

  #60  
Old 02-12-2010, 06:12 PM
lip lip is offline
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I edited out what I was going to say...

I would say it's time to lock this thread...going nowhere fast...

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