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  #21  
Old 02-06-2010, 07:54 PM
jeffnles1 jeffnles1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machiventa View Post
Just wanted to point out a couple things:

2) You allowed it by subscribing to the channel, plain and simple. Sure it shouldn't be there in the first place but by subscribing to something you get what you paid for.

4) The Twitter app doesn't filter out curse words anymore. It was an overlooked factor and was fixed in a couple days after release.



I wish professional DJ's could just program them so that they'd be more accurate and things like this wouldn't happen. It's such a cool feature in theory but they're pretty much a joke. Or maybe even allow users to share their playlists under the channels service, that would be pretty cool.
I guess you're right about the subscription thing. I guess there should have been something somewhere that said I was subscribing to potentially explicit content.

By subscribing to a bluegrass music channel and a top Christian Rock channel, I had no idea I would be subjected to this type of explicit content.

Am I making a mountain out of a molehill? Probably.

As a consumer, my ultimate voice is with my Visa card. No more Zune pass for me. I doubt if my $15.00 is going to hurt MS at all. But if the team at MS thinks putting explicit material in channels like this is OK then the Zune pass is not for me.

Jeff

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  #22  
Old 02-06-2010, 08:02 PM
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weedalin weedalin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnles1 View Post
As a consumer, my ultimate voice is with my Visa card. No more Zune pass for me. I doubt if my $15.00 is going to hurt MS at all. But if the team at MS thinks putting explicit material in channels like this is OK then the Zune pass is not for me.
Jeff
Unfortunately, I highly doubt there was an actual conscious decision to put "Fuck Her Gently" in the channel; it was most likely a little snag with the way they coded/programmed it. You don't work for Microsoft, do you? What if the mistake wasn't caught in the stages you mentioned? I admit that I did take ad-hominem attacks out of context, but you made sweeping absolute conclusions that shouldn't be made.


Additionally, do you really think MS had the intent of offending people with explicit content with this?
If there was no intent, and you're getting on your soapbox about this, that's the equivalent of getting mad at a racist joke that was told purely for laughs.

  #23  
Old 02-06-2010, 08:18 PM
Icky6 Icky6 is offline
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Originally Posted by jeffnles1 View Post
I think you really need to go back and check on the definition of ad-hominem. I'm not totally sure you're using the phrase in the right context as it relates to this discussion.

"An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. "

Now, since I don't know you and made no reference to you nor did I try to discredit you at all, I don't see how my discussion could be an Ad Hominem argument.

My discussion stayed on track. Vulgar song, downloaded without my permission or foreknowledge and inappropriate to the genre.

I expressed a personal opinion that this song is trash and I do not retract that opinion.

The only part of my argument that could be considered Ad Hominem was the 15 year old boy part and that is only if you are, indeed, a 15 year old boy. Since I have no idea who you really are nor how old you are, I don't see how that could be misconstrued to fall into an Ad Hominem fallacy.

The 15 year old boy remark could possibly be stretched to be considered a straw man, but that would be somewhat of a stretch.

To be clear, my argument is not with you unless you're the guy at MS who programmed this.

And for the record, while I'm now an IT project manager, I spent about 10 years as a programmer and tech lead. I'm all too familiar with coding and I'm, sadly, all to familiar with fixing other people's sloppy code.

I'm not sure if this particular error was a coding error, a bad judgment by an individual or both.

Again, if you're not the person who made the decision at MS, I have absolutely no argument with you.

Now, back to the topic at hand, I see no reasonable excuse for this type of mistake to be made. You and some others may be OK with this. That's fine and I'm happy for you.

I'm not OK with it. A little Systems Integration Testing and some User Acceptance Testing at the end of the Qualify stage of the project should catch this type of error.

Enough said on the topic. If you are not the person at MS who's responsible for this piece of code, there's little reason for us to continue the conversation.

Jeff
LOL I'm sorry I just had to say this. Weedalin is in fact 15, he told me this himself in a private message. I'm not making this up.

Anyway, I do tend to agree with Weedalin. I understand your frustration, it's not nice to see a song you consider vulgar pop up on your Zune. But... I dunno, you seem to be amazingly outraged at something that seems to be an honest mistake by the software. My dad would probably feel the same as you (he's 57), and I suspect this comes from being from a generation that didn't use the F word so freely (I don't use it myself, but at 23 am used to hearing it all the time). I hope this kind of mistake gets resolved though.

  #24  
Old 02-06-2010, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Icky6 View Post
LOL I'm sorry I just had to say this. Weedalin is in fact 15, he told me this himself in a private message. I'm not making this up.

Anyway, I do tend to agree with Weedalin. I understand your frustration, it's not nice to see a song you consider vulgar pop up on your Zune. But... I dunno, you seem to be amazingly outraged at something that seems to be an honest mistake by the software. My dad would probably feel the same as you (he's 57), and I suspect this comes from being from a generation that didn't use the F word so freely (I don't use it myself, but at 23 am used to hearing it all the time). I hope this kind of mistake gets resolved though.
Lol, it doesn't really matter. Age often makes no difference in the validity (or lack thereof) and (il)logic of statements.

  #25  
Old 02-06-2010, 08:52 PM
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As Jeff just said... Let's try and keep this on the topic of the problem itself instead of who does this and who does that.

I agree it should have never happened, however it did and I can say nothing but agree that is a crappy feature. Implemented badly by somebody at Microsoft. I to have subscribed to the Christian stuff and honestly it sucks. I hate music with swearing, but their auto selection of Christian music stinks.
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Last edited by Cruleworld; 02-06-2010 at 09:16 PM.

  #26  
Old 02-06-2010, 09:30 PM
Icky6 Icky6 is offline
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Originally Posted by weedalin View Post
Lol, it doesn't really matter. Age often makes no difference in the validity (or lack thereof) and (il)logic of statements.
This is true.

  #27  
Old 02-06-2010, 09:59 PM
Xiamhighx Xiamhighx is offline
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Also, like others said, I doubt some MS employee was playing a joke on the bluegrass fans. There is likely some algorithm that decides which music gets put where.

  #28  
Old 02-06-2010, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruleworld View Post
As Jeff just said... Let's try and keep this on the topic of the problem itself instead of who does this and who does that.

I agree it should have never happened, however it did and I can say nothing but agree that is a crappy feature. Implemented badly by somebody at Microsoft. I to have subscribed to the Christian stuff and honestly it sucks. I hate music with swearing, but their auto selection of Christian music stinks.
There is a huge difference between saying that it's a crappy feature and it shouldn't have happened than to accuse an employee at Microsoft of doing it on purpose or by accident when it's most likely it was done mechanically.

Last edited by weedalin; 02-06-2010 at 10:07 PM.

  #29  
Old 02-06-2010, 10:16 PM
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I never said anyone did it! I said it was implemented badly. This was not done on purpose it was most likely a algarithom error like you have said.
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  #30  
Old 02-06-2010, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Cruleworld View Post
I never said anyone did it! I said it was implemented badly. This was not done on purpose it was most likely a algarithom error like you have said.
I was referring to what Jeff said.
More accurately, I was responding to this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruleworld
As Jeff just said... Let's try and keep this on the topic of the problem itself instead of who does this and who does that.

  #31  
Old 02-10-2010, 03:52 AM
DaveMac-MS DaveMac-MS is offline
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Guys - sorry for the delay in responding, I'm now trying to catch up on my reading.

Honestly - I don't know what happened here. I know that our most popular channels are programmed by on-site staff. I know that the less commonly listened channels are programmed externally (maybe even auto-programmed, I really don't know). I do know that we absolutely wouldn't want this kind of thing to happen. I've sent a link to the thread over to our director of programming.

To clarify an earlier comment - the Zune HD Twitter application does NOT censor, on the day of release it was learnt there was a bug in the app that DID censor, but 24 hours later we released an update to fix the problem.

As soon as I learn more on this Bluegrass channel issue, I'll get back to you.

Cheers, Dave.
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  #32  
Old 02-10-2010, 09:11 AM
musichound musichound is offline
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To the OP, I ask you one quetion:
So you are saying that the person who made this mistake should be fired? Is the Zune mission critical that warrants this? Are Zune Channels mission critical? Please, it is only a DAP, and this was not a mission critical mistake. I feel sorry for the team of people who work for you, because you appear to be a tyrant.
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  #33  
Old 02-10-2010, 12:36 PM
jeffnles1 jeffnles1 is offline
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Originally Posted by musichound View Post
To the OP, I ask you one quetion:
So you are saying that the person who made this mistake should be fired? Is the Zune mission critical that warrants this? Are Zune Channels mission critical? Please, it is only a DAP, and this was not a mission critical mistake. I feel sorry for the team of people who work for you, because you appear to be a tyrant.
Would I really fire the person on my team? Most likely not unless it was a pattern of performance. Am I a tyrant, maybe, I guess it depends on your definition. I can say I've never had anyone quit one of my teams and I have had many people in our company request to work for me. We work hard and play harder. I set clear expectations and my only big expectation is that everyone try their best. No excuse for sloppy work. Honest mistakes are no issue. Sloppy work gets dealt with.

The reason people ask to work on my teams is we deliver the results and over the years many have been promoted as a result of their work on my teams.

So, if wanting to see people do their best work, get recognized for excellence, and receive promotions and salary increases as a result makes me a tyrant, then I suppose I'm guilty as charged.

If weeding out dead wood so it doesn't suck the life out of the rest of the team makes me a tyrant, then, yes, I am a tyrant.

The 30 or so people who have received promotions as a result of being on my teams would most likely take a different view.

So, if this were just a guy screwed up once, we'd have a chat and it would be over. If it was a use case test wasn't thought of, we'd discuss it and better luck next time.

If this were a pattern, it would be dealt with.

Jeff

  #34  
Old 02-10-2010, 01:51 PM
jeffnles1 jeffnles1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMac-MS View Post
Guys - sorry for the delay in responding, I'm now trying to catch up on my reading.

Honestly - I don't know what happened here. I know that our most popular channels are programmed by on-site staff. I know that the less commonly listened channels are programmed externally (maybe even auto-programmed, I really don't know). I do know that we absolutely wouldn't want this kind of thing to happen. I've sent a link to the thread over to our director of programming.

To clarify an earlier comment - the Zune HD Twitter application does NOT censor, on the day of release it was learnt there was a bug in the app that DID censor, but 24 hours later we released an update to fix the problem.

As soon as I learn more on this Bluegrass channel issue, I'll get back to you.

Cheers, Dave.
Dave,
thanks for the update. I guess the fact I didn't know the censor was removed from Twitter app shows how interested I am in foul language.

I'm less hot now, but as someone else said, if that had ended up on my son's Zune...

Thanks again for following up.

Jeff

  #35  
Old 02-10-2010, 02:13 PM
JJohnson JJohnson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMac-MS View Post
Guys - sorry for the delay in responding, I'm now trying to catch up on my reading.

Honestly - I don't know what happened here. I know that our most popular channels are programmed by on-site staff. I know that the less commonly listened channels are programmed externally (maybe even auto-programmed, I really don't know). I do know that we absolutely wouldn't want this kind of thing to happen. I've sent a link to the thread over to our director of programming.

To clarify an earlier comment - the Zune HD Twitter application does NOT censor, on the day of release it was learnt there was a bug in the app that DID censor, but 24 hours later we released an update to fix the problem.

As soon as I learn more on this Bluegrass channel issue, I'll get back to you.

Cheers, Dave.
Dave, is there any word on the rights issue that is causing people to be unable to download songs or synch songs to the Zune? It's a bit frustrating to be paying for a Zune pass, and being unable to actually utilize the songs I downloaded under that same pass.

James

  #36  
Old 02-10-2010, 02:56 PM
MonkeyMhz MonkeyMhz is offline
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I dunno I think ur over-reacting. Ill never ever ever see a song/band/music i like on any channels or anything. Cuz the music i like isnt the crap that most people listen to today.

I bet the channels picks are automated who knows. Smart DJ is better for finding good music, aside from that, I don't really use channels or ZunePass, since most the music I like has CD's/albums every now and then distributed freely by the creators and when not I just order them. Mind you zunepass is sweet, perhaps they should redo how the channels make their picks, or at least censor it a bit.

  #37  
Old 02-10-2010, 03:33 PM
DaveMac-MS DaveMac-MS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJohnson View Post
Dave, is there any word on the rights issue that is causing people to be unable to download songs or synch songs to the Zune? It's a bit frustrating to be paying for a Zune pass, and being unable to actually utilize the songs I downloaded under that same pass.
I'm actually not familiar with this issue - can you start a new thread and explain, or even send me email (aussie@zune.net)?

Cheers, Dave.
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  #38  
Old 02-10-2010, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMac-MS View Post
I'm actually not familiar with this issue - can you start a new thread and explain, or even send me email (aussie@zune.net)?
Dave, I think he started a thread about this issue here.
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  #39  
Old 02-11-2010, 01:44 AM
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Im sorry i have to agree with the forum poster.

Fuck her gently ?? are you kidding me ?? How would any of you like your six year old singing fuck her gently out loud out of the blue just because she heard it on her zune.

The guy should be fired or at the bare minimum given a strong suspention...that type of error is downright unacceptable.

I hear people talking about this economy.. Listen here bud ... You either sink or swim to keep your job .. You cant monitor a playlist for the appropriate content .. your sunk and SOMEONE ELSE will be very willing to Swim in your replacement .. This is a business after all.


My expectations judging from past performance by the zune team is rock bottom and this is coming from someone who has 3 zunes and a zune subcription.. But this will all end in due course. Even the most hard core supporters will leave the scene given enough reasons.

My 2 cents

  #40  
Old 02-11-2010, 02:41 AM
VagabonDOOM VagabonDOOM is offline
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Am I missing something here? How is swearing even offensive to anyone anymore? Words are words.

If the D were a bluegrass band, I'd probably kill myself, though.

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