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  #1  
Old 02-06-2010, 09:21 AM
jeffnles1 jeffnles1 is offline
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Default Someone at Zune shoud be fired

Whoever it is who picks the songs that go into the channels needs to be fired today.

One of the channels I subscribe to is Top Bluegrass in Zune. I like bluegrass music (i'm a hillbilly and please don laugh... too much).

When my HD synched last night, "Fuck Her Gently" by the Tenacious D Tribute band showed up.

Come on, Fuck Her Gently is top bluegrass music? In who's book?

Whoever it was who allowed that to be in the channel needs to be fired today.

Dave, who picks this trash?

The bad thing is I can't even delete the darned thing from the channel unless I unsubscribe.

Now, the Zune Pass without channels that I like is just an expensive way to get 10 songs a month. It comes to about $1.50 per song when I can get them for less than a buck anywhere else

Streaming music is kind of cool but the new wears off and eventually, I'll buy the ones I like.

The channels are part of the triad that makes the zune pass cool (Streaming music, 10 song credits per month, channels).

Comeon Zune Team, pull your heads out of your ass and think about the target markets.

OK, rant over.

My zune pass is due up in about 2 weeks. At this point, I'm going to get my last few song credits and let the thing expire.

Jeff
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  #2  
Old 02-06-2010, 10:45 AM
clubdirthill clubdirthill is offline
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Channels have probably been neglected in the advent of Smart DJ.

  #3  
Old 02-06-2010, 11:06 AM
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I find channels to be hardly accurate when it comes to finding good music. Smart DJ is better for this.
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  #4  
Old 02-06-2010, 12:53 PM
Jacob Jacob is offline
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It's the record labels not tagging correctly.

  #5  
Old 02-06-2010, 01:14 PM
jeffnles1 jeffnles1 is offline
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I don't buy the recordlabels not tagging correctly argument.

I find it ironic that when I went to the Zune forum, the "F" word was starred out when I posted the complaint but they will allow it to be in their channels and then synch to my collection and my Zune?

Total BS and its' NOT the record label's fault. I still say whomever is in charge of the channels should be fired today. Friday should have been his/her last day to work for Microsoft.

Just like the issue when people PURCHASED songs and then Zune won't synch them any longer because of rights issues. When a person BUYS something, they bought it. If Zune Marketplace removes the song, 2 proper courses of action. 1) don't remove PURCHASED music, or 2) if they have to remove it, REFUND the points / money.

This "blame it on the record label" BS has gotten out of hand.

The record labels are a bunch of greedy lawyers, I agree, but they are not the cause of all the world's problems.

Sorry about the rant, but this is just beyond reason.

I really like my Zune. The Zune pass is a novel idea but so far, let me see:
1) credits don't carry over to the next month - use them or loose them (blamed the record labels(
2) not all songs are available to download via Zune pass - blame the record labels
3) songs with the F word in the title and throughout the song are included in a bluegrass music channel? - blame the record label.

When is someone on the Zune team going to just admit they screwed up and fix it instead of blame someone else?

Jeff

  #6  
Old 02-06-2010, 01:32 PM
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I agree with you Jeff.. idiotic things like that should be dealt with - as in that person being fired.

I agree that is in no way acceptable, and Microsoft should be hiring higher quality employees if it was in fact an employee's fault.

However, it's never going to happen..

  #7  
Old 02-06-2010, 01:53 PM
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Jeff, I also agree with you, IMHO totally unacceptable and I’d love to hear a response from them other than an excuse. Fortunately my 9 yr old doesn’t have zune, because if that had happened on his I’d be madder that you …
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  #8  
Old 02-06-2010, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clubdirthill View Post
Channels have probably been neglected in the advent of Smart DJ.
Nope, channels sucked since day 1. It's a very cool idea that was and has been executed poorly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnles1 View Post
Just like the issue when people PURCHASED songs and then Zune won't synch them any longer because of rights issues. When a person BUYS something, they bought it. If Zune Marketplace removes the song, 2 proper courses of action. 1) don't remove PURCHASED music, or 2) if they have to remove it, REFUND the points / money.

Jeff
If I remember that correctly then that's exactly what it was: an issue. One that's since been corrected, so I don't think it's fair to use that in your argument.
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  #9  
Old 02-06-2010, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnles1 View Post
I really like my Zune. The Zune pass is a novel idea but so far, let me see:
1) credits don't carry over to the next month - use them or loose them (blamed the record labels(
2) not all songs are available to download via Zune pass - blame the record labels
3) songs with the F word in the title and throughout the song are included in a bluegrass music channel? - blame the record label.
You have some good points here, what really strikes me as odd though is the fact that they will censor words on a forum of discussion (limiting speech) and yet not the music itself. FUCK
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  #10  
Old 02-06-2010, 02:49 PM
jeffnles1 jeffnles1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machiventa View Post
Nope, channels sucked since day 1. It's a very cool idea that was and has been executed poorly.




If I remember that correctly then that's exactly what it was: an issue. One that's since been corrected, so I don't think it's fair to use that in your argument.
I agree that perhaps it was an "issue" but "issues" keep on happening. Once, it's an issue, twice, it's a recurring quality control problem.

Two things I'm glas of, 1) my so is 14, has most likely heard it on the school bus and I'm not a total prude. 2) this my zune and not my wife's.

If this had happened on my wife's Zune, she would have gone ballistic much more than I have. Thank goodness she has an iPod touch

Seriously, this stuff shouldn't happen.

The hardware is excellent.
The user interface bets the heck out of iPod Touch
The Zune software that runs on the computer is far better than iTunes.
Zune Pass is a great idea.

Unfortunately, there are so many little quirks like obscene songs showing up on my device that I have no control over, the continual delays in bringing apps to the marketplace, the flap over the DRM isues, album art pointig to the wrong songs, and the like that it makes the overall user experience quite frustrating.

The one thing I will say in favor of the iTouch is it has perforemed flawlessly for both my wife's and the one my son has. It's nowhere near the device but the overall user experience of the HD leaves something to be desired.

Dave, if you're reading this, please tell the guys who run the channels that "F**K Her Gently" is not a bluegrass song even if the bozo who is playing it is using a banjo?

The same for Led Zeppelin's Over the Hills and Far Away. At least the "bluegrass" version of that song (which also showed up on the same channel) isn't explicitly about banging some chick gently.

If the guy is a direct report of yours, he really should be fired on the spot. It's an inexcusable mistake.

Jeff

  #11  
Old 02-06-2010, 03:07 PM
Xiamhighx Xiamhighx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnles1 View Post
I agree that perhaps it was an "issue" but "issues" keep on happening. Once, it's an issue, twice, it's a recurring quality control problem.

Two things I'm glas of, 1) my so is 14, has most likely heard it on the school bus and I'm not a total prude. 2) this my zune and not my wife's.

If this had happened on my wife's Zune, she would have gone ballistic much more than I have. Thank goodness she has an iPod touch

Seriously, this stuff shouldn't happen.

The hardware is excellent.
The user interface bets the heck out of iPod Touch
The Zune software that runs on the computer is far better than iTunes.
Zune Pass is a great idea.

Unfortunately, there are so many little quirks like obscene songs showing up on my device that I have no control over, the continual delays in bringing apps to the marketplace, the flap over the DRM isues, album art pointig to the wrong songs, and the like that it makes the overall user experience quite frustrating.

The one thing I will say in favor of the iTouch is it has perforemed flawlessly for both my wife's and the one my son has. It's nowhere near the device but the overall user experience of the HD leaves something to be desired.

Dave, if you're reading this, please tell the guys who run the channels that "F**K Her Gently" is not a bluegrass song even if the bozo who is playing it is using a banjo?

The same for Led Zeppelin's Over the Hills and Far Away. At least the "bluegrass" version of that song (which also showed up on the same channel) isn't explicitly about banging some chick gently.

If the guy is a direct report of yours, he really should be fired on the spot. It's an inexcusable mistake.

Jeff
I don't know about you, but IMO some guy supporting his family shouldn't lose his career in this economy for something so trivial. Just give the song a broken heart rating and it should be gone the next time you sync.

  #12  
Old 02-06-2010, 04:42 PM
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I personally believe it is probably a programming error. This stuff is probably not hand picked by a person. I personally would love an option to just get rid of all songs with cursing from showing up on any zune stuff. But that's just me.
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  #13  
Old 02-06-2010, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnles1 View Post
Whoever it is who picks the songs that go into the channels needs to be fired today.

One of the channels I subscribe to is Top Bluegrass in Zune. I like bluegrass music (i'm a hillbilly and please don laugh... too much).

When my HD synched last night, "Fuck Her Gently" by the Tenacious D Tribute band showed up.

Come on, Fuck Her Gently is top bluegrass music? In who's book?

Whoever it was who allowed that to be in the channel needs to be fired today.

Dave, who picks this trash?

The bad thing is I can't even delete the darned thing from the channel unless I unsubscribe.

Now, the Zune Pass without channels that I like is just an expensive way to get 10 songs a month. It comes to about $1.50 per song when I can get them for less than a buck anywhere else

Streaming music is kind of cool but the new wears off and eventually, I'll buy the ones I like.

The channels are part of the triad that makes the zune pass cool (Streaming music, 10 song credits per month, channels).

Comeon Zune Team, pull your heads out of your ass and think about the target markets.

OK, rant over.

My zune pass is due up in about 2 weeks. At this point, I'm going to get my last few song credits and let the thing expire.

Jeff
Jeff
While I do agree that that is a programming/coding issue, I don't you appreciate calling Tenacious D trash. They're an excellent, hilarious band that makes good music. If you could, I would prefer that you refrain from calling other people's music trash. You could have referred to it as 'unfitting music' or something similar instead of rashly making a statement that would offend.
If I were subscribed to the Rock Channel (I don't use Channels, but this is a hypothetical situation) and say, Bluegrass came up, I wouldn't call it trash.
Additionally, you're seriously making something out of nothing. If I'm correct, this happens on iTunes for many people as well. Don't make points that don't exist. Would you like me to point out to you how many countless people have gotten their money swiped by iTunes and how Apple couldn't be bothered to pay it back? Metadata is also extremely easy to fix; just download or look up the information and edit the tags.
No one should get fired for this.

  #14  
Old 02-06-2010, 04:59 PM
jeffnles1 jeffnles1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiamhighx View Post
I don't know about you, but IMO some guy supporting his family shouldn't lose his career in this economy for something so trivial. Just give the song a broken heart rating and it should be gone the next time you sync.
I manage a team of about 25 programmers scattered across the globe. In today's economy, people need to be even more careful about how they perform their job duties. There are 50 people lined up waiting on the job who will do it just as well for less money.

Performing your job responsibilities with absolute excellence and doing even more above and beyond the job description is the only way to have any kind of job security and even at that, if the company decides to cut your area, it doesn't matter how good of an employee you were, you're still looking for work.

So, I guess I am saying for a bone headed mistake like this, the person shoaler be fired or at least severely reprimanded and made to fix the error.

Just my not so humble opinion.

I'm a mid-level manger (bad spot to be in with this economy by the way) at one of the Dow 20 companies with over 30 years management experience. My comments are based upon reality and how the real world works these days and not emotion or some "give them some slack" kind of attitude. Today's business world leaves no room for slack.

Should they really fire the guy? Most likely not, but he/she needs to know that is a distinct possibility.

Jeff

  #15  
Old 02-06-2010, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnles1 View Post
I manage a team of about 25 programmers scattered across the globe. In today's economy, people need to be even more careful about how they perform their job duties. There are 50 people lined up waiting on the job who will do it just as well for less money.

Performing your job responsibilities with absolute excellence and doing even more above and beyond the job description is the only way to have any kind of job security and even at that, if the company decides to cut your area, it doesn't matter how good of an employee you were, you're still looking for work.

So, I guess I am saying for a bone headed mistake like this, the person shoaler be fired or at least severely reprimanded and made to fix the error.

Just my not so humble opinion.

I'm a mid-level manger (bad spot to be in with this economy by the way) at one of the Dow 20 companies with over 30 years management experience. My comments are based upon reality and how the real world works these days and not emotion or some "give them some slack" kind of attitude. Today's business world leaves no room for slack.

Should they really fire the guy? Most likely not, but he/she needs to know that is a distinct possibility.

Jeff
It depends on the field. I wouldn't recommend trying to judge every other single field as can do yours. By the way, did you know absolute statements are just grand? (Catcher In The Rye reference, kudos to whomever gets it)

  #16  
Old 02-06-2010, 06:02 PM
jeffnles1 jeffnles1 is offline
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It depends on the field. I wouldn't recommend trying to judge every other single field as can do yours. By the way, did you know absolute statements are just grand? (Catcher In The Rye reference, kudos to whomever gets it)
weedalin,
The field I am in is IT. I'm a global project manager for one of the 20 largest companies in the world and one of the top 2 in our particular field and have 30 years experience (I'm 49 and yes I started when I was a sophomore in college at age 19).

I'm all too familiar with the field the Zune team is playing in and how competitive it is in the job market.


As for calling the music trash, I'm not commenting on all songs by this particular band, but any song that it titled "Fuck Her Gently" and has that phrase repeated several times in the lyrics, is, in my book, trash.

If Bill Monroe, Ricky Skaggs or any other artist had a song with similar lyrics, I would call that song trash too.

Language like that in a song is mainly for a 15 year old boy to shock his parents or make him feel "cool" for listening to it.

I listened to the song and it is quite juvenile.

If I insulted your favorite band, I'm sorry. I will not retract my comment about this particular song.

If you don't like it, I'm sorry, but I honestly could not care less.

The fact of the matter is:
1) the song is vulgar
2) it was downloaded to MY Zune without prior permissions
3) it is inappropriate for the genre of music with which it was supposed to be associated.
4) Microsoft will not allow the word "Fuck" on their forums, the Twitter app filters it out but they allow a song with it in the title and throughout the lyrics to be loaded onto MY Zune?

Yes, someone should get a serious tongue lashing from their boss over this and yes, there are probably 25+ equally qualified people who already have resumes sitting on HR's desk at Microsoft that would be willing to do the job for 30% less money.

As for giving it a broken heart, I know that. The point is it should have never been placed on my Zune in the first place.

If you don't like what I have to say, that's your right. I respect your opinion. I just ask that you respect mine.

Jeff

  #17  
Old 02-06-2010, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnles1 View Post
weedalin,
The field I am in is IT. I'm a global project manager for one of the 20 largest companies in the world and one of the top 2 in our particular field and have 30 years experience (I'm 49 and yes I started when I was a sophomore in college at age 19).

I'm all too familiar with the field the Zune team is playing in and how competitive it is in the job market.
But are you aware of the kind of mistake this is? (see below)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnles1
As for calling the music trash, I'm not commenting on all songs by this particular band, but any song that it titled "Fuck Her Gently" and has that phrase repeated several times in the lyrics, is, in my book, trash.

If Bill Monroe, Ricky Skaggs or any other artist had a song with similar lyrics, I would call that song trash too.

Language like that in a song is mainly for a 15 year old boy to shock his parents or make him feel "cool" for listening to it.

I listened to the song and it is quite juvenile.

If I insulted your favorite band, I'm sorry. I will not retract my comment about this particular song.

If you don't like it, I'm sorry, but I honestly could not care less.

The fact of the matter is:
1) the song is vulgar
2) it was downloaded to MY Zune without prior permissions
3) it is inappropriate for the genre of music with which it was supposed to be associated.
4) Microsoft will not allow the word "Fuck" on their forums, the Twitter app filters it out but they allow a song with it in the title and throughout the lyrics to be loaded onto MY Zune?
Oh my, someone seems to be quite smitten with ad-hominems and absolute statements. Unfortunately, I can't respect someone who relies heavily on the worst kind of illogical arguments to prove his/her point. I make it a point in everywhere I talk and comment to try and eliminate this kind of debate. It contributes nothing to an overall debate and is quite indicative of a vulgar mind even more so than said 15 year old boy. At least the boy is ignorant; you have no excuse. I would have expected better-chosen words and a better argument from an adult such as yourself, and it saddens me that this kind of argument is now the norm everywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnles1
Yes, someone should get a serious tongue lashing from their boss over this and yes, there are probably 25+ equally qualified people who already have resumes sitting on HR's desk at Microsoft that would be willing to do the job for 30% less money.

As for giving it a broken heart, I know that. The point is it should have never been placed on my Zune in the first place.

If you don't like what I have to say, that's your right. I respect your opinion. I just ask that you respect mine.

Jeff
If you had some experience with coding, this kind of circumstance is probably a hiccup in coding. It's a mistake that happens ALL the time in the technology world; why should someone get fired for something that happens on a regular basis?

  #18  
Old 02-06-2010, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffnles1 View Post

The fact of the matter is:
2) it was downloaded to MY Zune without prior permissions

4) Microsoft will not allow the word "Fuck" on their forums, the Twitter app filters it out but they allow a song with it in the title and throughout the lyrics to be loaded onto MY Zune?

Jeff
Just wanted to point out a couple things:

2) You allowed it by subscribing to the channel, plain and simple. Sure it shouldn't be there in the first place but by subscribing to something you get what you paid for.

4) The Twitter app doesn't filter out curse words anymore. It was an overlooked factor and was fixed in a couple days after release.



I wish professional DJ's could just program them so that they'd be more accurate and things like this wouldn't happen. It's such a cool feature in theory but they're pretty much a joke. Or maybe even allow users to share their playlists under the channels service, that would be pretty cool.
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  #19  
Old 02-06-2010, 06:33 PM
clubdirthill clubdirthill is offline
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Once the HD gets Smart DJ, I would just cut the feature.

  #20  
Old 02-06-2010, 06:40 PM
jeffnles1 jeffnles1 is offline
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I think you really need to go back and check on the definition of ad-hominem. I'm not totally sure you're using the phrase in the right context as it relates to this discussion.

"An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. "

Now, since I don't know you and made no reference to you nor did I try to discredit you at all, I don't see how my discussion could be an Ad Hominem argument.

My discussion stayed on track. Vulgar song, downloaded without my permission or foreknowledge and inappropriate to the genre.

I expressed a personal opinion that this song is trash and I do not retract that opinion.

The only part of my argument that could be considered Ad Hominem was the 15 year old boy part and that is only if you are, indeed, a 15 year old boy. Since I have no idea who you really are nor how old you are, I don't see how that could be misconstrued to fall into an Ad Hominem fallacy.

The 15 year old boy remark could possibly be stretched to be considered a straw man, but that would be somewhat of a stretch.

To be clear, my argument is not with you unless you're the guy at MS who programmed this.

And for the record, while I'm now an IT project manager, I spent about 10 years as a programmer and tech lead. I'm all too familiar with coding and I'm, sadly, all to familiar with fixing other people's sloppy code.

I'm not sure if this particular error was a coding error, a bad judgment by an individual or both.

Again, if you're not the person who made the decision at MS, I have absolutely no argument with you.

Now, back to the topic at hand, I see no reasonable excuse for this type of mistake to be made. You and some others may be OK with this. That's fine and I'm happy for you.

I'm not OK with it. A little Systems Integration Testing and some User Acceptance Testing at the end of the Qualify stage of the project should catch this type of error.

Enough said on the topic. If you are not the person at MS who's responsible for this piece of code, there's little reason for us to continue the conversation.

Jeff

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