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  #21  
Old 01-13-2010, 02:33 PM
alexiznumber1 alexiznumber1 is offline
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why dont yall try to partner with stereo making companies so that you can have a built in dock in the stereo that you can buy anywhere without having to buy other tuff? cuz heck just going to walmart and all the stereos you see have an ipod dock. i want a zune dock.
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  #22  
Old 01-13-2010, 02:44 PM
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Proof is in the pudding - name me a profitable music service that doesn't have some kind of hardware attach business?
eMusic?

Not that its success in any way changes the reality of the Zune and iPod business models...but eMusic does appear to have found a fruitful space for digital music sales without peddling their own hardware.
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  #23  
Old 01-13-2010, 03:36 PM
DaveMac-MS DaveMac-MS is offline
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Originally Posted by alexiznumber1 View Post
why dont yall try to partner with stereo making companies so that you can have a built in dock in the stereo that you can buy anywhere without having to buy other tuff? cuz heck just going to walmart and all the stereos you see have an ipod dock. i want a zune dock.
Any of those companies are very welcome to add a Zune dock - and I would be happy to do a deal with any such company. My experience has been, however, that when companies go down that path, a certain Cupertino company gets very upset and, well, you can figure out the potential consequences.

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eMusic?

Not that its success in any way changes the reality of the Zune and iPod business models...but eMusic does appear to have found a fruitful space for digital music sales without peddling their own hardware.
I've not seen any evidence that they're profitable at all. Also, until recently their catalog was largely long-tail content and their Compete.com numbers show declining traffic to their site. They are now doing deals with the record labels - themselves seeing declining revenues - which only further guarantees their undoing.

The basic, underlying problem with being a source of content only (ie: having no hardware business - or no "moat"), is that you fully cede pricing control of your product. You get dictated to by the labels on how cheap you can sell content, and if you start selling too much of it and the labels feel the content is too cheap, they can up the price on you.

In other words, the profitability and success of your business is 100% dictated to you by the content owners. If they feel you're doing a bit too well, they'll increase their take. If you want to lower prices to drive higher volume, you can't do that either without their blessing.

No thanks. Much better to be in a business where you own the pipe, the endpoints, the customer. Apple has a strong position because they own iTunes customers and iPod/iPhone customers. Microsoft is in a strong position because of our OS franchise, almost 40MM Xboxes in the marketplace, Windows Mobile, and yes even Zune. Both Apple and Microsoft have value to the content owners because we can deliver customers to the content owners.

Folks like eMusic are simply resellers of content - the exact same content that can be found elsewhere - and the success of their ventures is wholly at the whim of the content owners.

Cheers, Dave.
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  #24  
Old 01-13-2010, 05:08 PM
alexiznumber1 alexiznumber1 is offline
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[QUOTE=DaveMac-MS;432659]Any of those companies are very welcome to add a Zune dock - and I would be happy to do a deal with any such company. My experience has been, however, that when companies go down that path, a certain Cupertino company gets very upset and, well, you can figure out the potential consequences.



What do you mean by cupertino? and..what would those consequences be? anndd....i doubt any company would just make a dock for the zune since everything seems to be about the ipod...why not pick one company to partner with..and then after that...maybe other companies will follow suit...
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  #25  
Old 01-13-2010, 05:42 PM
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Apple's HQ is in Cupertino, CA.
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  #26  
Old 01-13-2010, 08:32 PM
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Dave,
Two things I wouldn't mind a comment from you on:

Ford sync:
It's been reported that people are having a problem getting the Zune HD to work with their ford sync while their old zunes work fine. In one case I read someone talked with a ford rep and they said it was not planned for the new versions of sync to support the zune hd or the current versions. Is this true? If so, seems illogical as sync is by MS

Audi seems to be working with other partners now (Google with google maps integrated in the audi system):
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/13/a...the-dashb/ther partners (Google maps which is a competitor to MS Bing ):
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  #27  
Old 01-14-2010, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by alexiznumber1 View Post
What do you mean by cupertino? and..what would those consequences be? anndd....i doubt any company would just make a dock for the zune since everything seems to be about the ipod...why not pick one company to partner with..and then after that...maybe other companies will follow suit...
So I was trying to be tactful in my comment. Cupertino, CA is the location of Apple's world HQ. As for consequences, well... every partner of ours that has gone to the expense and effort of designing a product that can accept BOTH a Zune and an Apple iPod has "mysteriously" terminated the product immediately after submitting plans for that product to Apple for approval under their accessories program. Coincidence? You be the judge.

Actually Kicker, iHome and Altec Lansing/Plantronics all make docks for the Zune, and I met with more vendors at CES who have expressed interest in doing same.

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It's been reported that people are having a problem getting the Zune HD to work with their ford sync while their old zunes work fine. In one case I read someone talked with a ford rep and they said it was not planned for the new versions of sync to support the zune hd or the current versions. Is this true? If so, seems illogical as sync is by MS
Firstly, SYNC is a Ford product that uses a Microsoft operating system (just like your laptop is a Sony/HP/Dell/Lenovo product that uses a Microsoft operating system). That said, the Zune connectivity is a core component of the operating system, and yes, all Zunes (30 --> HD) are supported. We didn't change anything in our auto implementation when we released the HD.

So no, the Ford rep was wrong, and that claim is untrue.

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Originally Posted by lip View Post
Audi seems to be working with other partners now (Google with google maps integrated in the audi system):
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/13/a...the-dashb/ther partners (Google maps which is a competitor to MS Bing ):
Very true. Although Bing didn't exist when this effort was being bid upon and scoped, I was involved on the periphery and knew that Audi was talking to Google. They were talking to a bunch of folks - as well they should have been.

I wouldn't count Bing Maps out of the auto space just yet, FWIW.

Cheers, Dave.
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  #28  
Old 01-14-2010, 03:03 AM
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... That said, we were able to secure content rights for our Zune Video Marketplace on Xbox in 18 territories, and we're not stopping there....
Cheers, Dave.
We can consider then, that the International release of the product is not due to the content rights.

I'm working for a US call center in France (MS partner) and I'm THE owner of a Zune.
Everyone asked to see for it when I had it 1 yr ago.

When the Zune HD was announced (first rumors), a lot of friends came to ask me for details and availability in France (even Apple fans and an Apple emloyee). Most of EU websites specialized in mobile (as our host) don't understand the situation.
Do you have to reach marketshare objective in US before the product is allowed to be shipped Int ?
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  #29  
Old 01-14-2010, 06:14 PM
DaveMac-MS DaveMac-MS is offline
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It's a couple of things. The international content rights ARE a problem - video was evidently easier to get than audio (probably because video is pretty analogous to what others are doing), whereas few are doing subscription, sharing, social, etc... But, like I said - we haven't given up there.

We don't have to reach a marketshare objective in the US, but entering a new territory is very expensive. Setting up international support, marketing teams, distribution, fulfillment, retail support, international certification, localization, etc... there is a long list of stuff to be done. That becomes very easy to do when you have a very high run rate of units already being sold - Apple at 10MM a quarter for example, is a high run rate of units. Incrementally, those costs are higher at lower volumes.

I don't want to paint a picture here where MS hasn't launched internationally only because of rights, or only because of the cost of X, Y or Z. That definitely isn't the case. This is a very complex business inside an extremely complex corporation. There are many, many factors why we haven't launched internationally yet.

That said, we've made no announcements about our future plans, and you should not expect to forecast the future based on past behaviour. Tempting to do, but I'd advise against it.

Cheers, Dave.
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  #30  
Old 01-14-2010, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveMac-MS View Post
It's a couple of things. The international content rights ARE a problem - video was evidently easier to get than audio (probably because video is pretty analogous to what others are doing), whereas few are doing subscription, sharing, social, etc... But, like I said - we haven't given up there.

We don't have to reach a marketshare objective in the US, but entering a new territory is very expensive. Setting up international support, marketing teams, distribution, fulfillment, retail support, international certification, localization, etc... there is a long list of stuff to be done. That becomes very easy to do when you have a very high run rate of units already being sold - Apple at 10MM a quarter for example, is a high run rate of units. Incrementally, those costs are higher at lower volumes.

I don't want to paint a picture here where MS hasn't launched internationally only because of rights, or only because of the cost of X, Y or Z. That definitely isn't the case. This is a very complex business inside an extremely complex corporation. There are many, many factors why we haven't launched internationally yet.

That said, we've made no announcements about our future plans, and you should not expect to forecast the future based on past behaviour. Tempting to do, but I'd advise against it.

Cheers, Dave.
jeez, I read that bit and could only thnk "Lawyers lawyers and more laywyers".

Oh and WOOT
Job listings and descriptions allows one to learn alot.

Zune Music coming to UK?

If you look at all the areas within MS Entertainment and Devices, look at the jobs (hint: go into the descriptions), you'll see what seems to amount to a major paradigm shift within that division. (EAD) Monumental.

I can't wait for MWC, GameFest, Mix, E3
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  #31  
Old 01-15-2010, 02:51 AM
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That said, we've made no announcements about our future plans, and you should not expect to forecast the future based on past behaviour. Tempting to do, but I'd advise against it.

Cheers, Dave.
Thanks Dave !

Let's hope then
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  #32  
Old 01-24-2010, 08:00 AM
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done anyone know when Zune HD gonna release in here UK?
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  #33  
Old 01-24-2010, 03:59 PM
daglesj daglesj is offline
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Companies wont make gear for the Zune because they know the returns just wont justify the tooling etc.

They can spend cash to make a product for the iPod as they know they have the potential of a huge WORLDWIDE customer base.

If they make a product for the Zune chances are they wont get the basic production costs back before it ends up in the bargain/clearance bin.

Its a catch22 situation unfortunately but I doubt it has little to do with Apple blackmailing them. It's just plain hard economics.
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  #34  
Old 01-26-2010, 07:49 PM
DaveMac-MS DaveMac-MS is offline
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Companies wont make gear for the Zune because they know the returns just wont justify the tooling etc.
Not true. A company can't just go make a Zune accessory - just like they can't just go make an Apple accessory. In each case, the vendor has to get permission from either Apple or Microsoft, license the specifications/connector, etc...

In our case, we've been careful to work with a specific number of partners such that ALL are successful with their products. That has been a strategy that has yielded high quality accessories and happy partners.

Would I like more? Sure. But for the path thus far, it has been a good program however.

Cheers, Dave.
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  #35  
Old 01-28-2010, 05:34 PM
daglesj daglesj is offline
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So other then the few bits that came out for the Zune MK1 (Kicker etc.) and the cases where are all the racks and racks of Zune accessories?

They dont exist because there isnt a market for them. The manufacturers dont have to worry about Apple getting upset, they only have to look at the bare facts and it's not worth the effort. They cant sell them worldwide for a start. They are now all working away at coming up with a myriad of iPad accessories (that they will be able to sell WORLDWIDE), not the Zune, no point. No money in that.

Thats why we dont see huge amounts of Sansa and Cowon accessories, like the Zune, they dont have the significant market share.

If it aint iPod it aint worth......

I'm dissapointed too by the way.

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  #36  
Old 01-28-2010, 05:47 PM
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The product's only been out for half a year... nobody thought the first iPod's would be anything, and look where they are now. Give things some time to grow
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  #37  
Old 01-28-2010, 06:01 PM
daglesj daglesj is offline
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The product's only been out for half a year... nobody thought the first iPod's would be anything, and look where they are now. Give things some time to grow

Oh come on the Zune as a 'product' or even a 'concept' has been around since what? 2006?

It's had 4 years to gain some traction. It it hasnt by now it never will.

I dont think it will. Thats why I still suspect the Zune (as it is now) has never been considered by MS as anything more than an market tester. Help them create/test a media platform. If it was a serious MS product it would have gone worldwide after three versions and 4 years.

We are still waiting for the big Zune advertising push...arent we? Or have we just given up?

We keep getting told otherwise but they talk the talk.....
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  #38  
Old 01-28-2010, 06:42 PM
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Oh come on the Zune as a 'product' or even a 'concept' has been around since what? 2006?

It's had 4 years to gain some traction. It it hasnt by now it never will.

I dont think it will. Thats why I still suspect the Zune (as it is now) has never been considered by MS as anything more than an market tester. Help them create/test a media platform. If it was a serious MS product it would have gone worldwide after three versions and 4 years.

We are still waiting for the big Zune advertising push...arent we? Or have we just given up?

We keep getting told otherwise but they talk the talk.....
So true, I agree with you a 110%. 4 years are more than enough. I have been saying this over the years on multiple Zune Forums that this device platform seems more like a Beta Test Project.

Yep they would've gone worldwide by now, or at least in Xbox Live Territories.

I think the only thing that is gonna pull people towards Zune brand is games, games, and more games. Probably bringing over Xbox lineup of games, i know i sound silly, but i remember when the Ipod Touch or iPhone initially came out, people would ridicule the idea of games being played on a touch screens device. But later it became hotspot for Games. I'm not saying it is better than PSP or DS, but it has been fairly good enough at the very least. Mind you a own a PSP, and my brother has a DS lite.
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  #39  
Old 01-28-2010, 07:02 PM
daglesj daglesj is offline
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Yeah whats the betting the next Xbox becomes the 'Xbox Zune' and is a total centric media centre and games console pulling in music/TV and video media?

The name zune will either dissapear or just become a brand for the media side of MS.

Zune Video, Zune radio, Zune Music Zune etc.

The Zune as a portable media device will fade away and blend into the phone side of the business.
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  #40  
Old 01-28-2010, 07:25 PM
Re-Vision Re-Vision is offline
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Yeah whats the betting the next Xbox becomes the 'Xbox Zune' and is a total centric media centre and games console pulling in music/TV and video media?

The name zune will either dissapear or just become a brand for the media side of MS.

Zune Video, Zune radio, Zune Music Zune etc.

The Zune as a portable media device will fade away and blend into the phone side of the business.
I've been wondering the same thing for a while now. Xbox Portable would definitely create a lot more interest in Zune Marketplace than say the Zune Device alone.

But what i can't seem to get is that do you think Microsoft will let Partners develop an Xbox live Phone?

You are right, I think Zune will fade away into service side only.
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