What do you think the Zune HD needs to be wildly successful?

[clubdirthill]

If Creative did their own product based on Zii along with selling their chip to third party people, that is almost a conflict of interest. You won't see Nvidia or Imagination Technologies releasing their own devices. Its why Microsoft won't release their own WinMo phone, because it is like an FU to their partners.

Also, if Creative releases their own product, it will be running their own OS, not Android (Sad face. Creative isn't exactly known for their software prowess. They should just skin android like HTC). The spec device has android so that OEM's can create stuff using that platform, or Creative's own OS.

[daglesj]

Creative have got this in the bag...as the Zune's marketing budget has always been whatever the Zune Team finds down the back of the coffee room sofa, they only have to spend a bit more and win!

[The DarkSide]

Originally Posted by clubdirthill

If Creative did their own product based on Zii along with selling their chip to third party people, that is almost a conflict of interest. You won't see Nvidia or Imagination Technologies releasing their own devices. Its why Microsoft won't release their own WinMo phone, because it is like an FU to their partners.

Also, if Creative releases their own product, it will be running their own OS, not Android (Sad face. Creative isn't exactly known for their software prowess. They should just skin android like HTC). The spec device has android so that OEM's can create stuff using that platform, or Creative's own OS.

What are you talking about? The Creative UI is easily 1 of the best and most famous around. And their computer music management software might blow, but the software on the players they produce is always top notch. It was so bad Apple paid to use it.

[Ricardo Dawkins]

Creative isn't exactly known for their software prowess

Microsoft for all their prwess can't develop a device software (firmware) that understand the id3 "Disc" tag.
right, Dave-Mac ?

[sumx4182]

Originally Posted by Ricardo Dawkins

Microsoft for all their prwess can't develop a device software (firmware) that understand the id3 "Disc" tag.
right, Dave-Mac ?

jesus...that damn complaint again...

[Maxis]

Originally Posted by sumx4182

jesus...that damn complaint again...

Seems valid to me ...

[sumx4182]

it's not. At least not to me...

We've had this discussion about 10 times. It's simple. Number the tracks consecutively, so instead of having 2 discs with 10 tracks each, have 1 disc with tracks 1-20. Or name the album "Album Name - Disc 1" and "Album Name - Disc 2".

It's no different than using the tag. And besides there's TONS of ID3 tags, many of which go unused:

• Album/Movie/Show title
• BPM (beats per minute)
• Composer
• Content type
• Copyright message
• Date of recording
• Playlist delay
• Encoded by
• Lyricist/Text writer
• File type
• Time of recording
• Content group description
• Title/songname/content description
• Subtitle/Description refinement
• Initial key
• Language(s) used in the audio
• Length
• Media type of audio original
• Original album/movie/show title
• Original filename
• Original lyricist(s)/text writer(s)
• Original artist(s)/performer(s)
• Original release year
• File owner/licensee
• Lead performer(s)/Soloist(s)
• Band/orchestra/accompaniment
• Conductor/performer refinement
• Interpreted, remixed, or otherwise modified by
• Part of a set
• Publisher
• Track number/Position in set
• Recording dates
• Internet radio station name
• Internet radio station owner
• Size
• ISRC (international standard recording code)
• Software/Hardware and settings used for encoding
• Year of the recording
• User defined text information frame

They can't use 'em all, and people obviously don't care all that much about the disc cause they have enough brain capacity to find an easy way to accomplish the same task without it...it's the dumbest complaint ever cause it has no affect on usability. If you're gonna pick something to complain about in regards to a player, complain about something consequential...

[Maxis]

Look if you dont care about it. It wont be a problem for you. If he thinks ITS THAT IMPORTANT FOR HIM . Let him discuss it. Simple as that ... dont like it ? leave it alone ...
I get the same crap about EQ being not important and the "oh i have super duper headphones so the eq doesnt matter and i need to buy better headphones ."

UTTER BULL...T

If what bothers him doesnt bother you i dont see what you are taking offence for.

[sumx4182]

Originally Posted by Maxis

Look if you dont care about it. It wont be a problem for you. If he thinks ITS THAT IMPORTANT FOR HIM . Let him discuss it. Simple as that ... dont like it ? leave it alone ...
I get the same crap about EQ being not important and the "oh i have super duper headphones so the eq doesnt matter and i need to buy better headphones ."

UTTER BULL...T

If what bothers him doesnt bother you i dont see what you are taking offence for.

EQ is important because it affects how a player SOUNDS! A player PLAYING MUSIC is what it's designed to do. But having a field that says disc 1 or disc 2 is worthless, especially when there's at least 2 other ways to accomplish the same task and neither of them affects the most important thing a player does...PLAY MUSIC!!!

Comparing EQ to a specific tag in the ID3 tag set is apples and oranges. Nice try though.

I'm taking offense because he mentions it in ever thread about the Zune and if that's the worst he can come up with, than MS is doing a good job. I'm so over hearing about the f'n disc number tag. Seriously, he's had that same complaint so many other times and he refuses to do one simple thing. In the same amount of time as it would take to edit the disc number tags, he can edit the track number tags and be done with it. But he'd rather bitch about something that barely matters, if at all.

[Xiamhighx]

Many media players have this problem. It's nothing that can't be fixed with a simple 2-second tag.

Just start ignoring Ricardo. I don't know what the hell that guy's problem is. When a normal person doesn't like a product, they don't buy it, and leave the people who bought it alone.

[DaveMac-MS]

Wow - not much more I can add here. Looks like this is a less-often used ID3 tag and along with many others, isn't supported by Zune. Sorry for those that feel this is important, although if I understand the posts above, it looks like there are several easy workarounds, so shouldn't be a problem.

Cheers, Dave.

[Ricardo Dawkins]

Wow - not much more I can add here. Looks like this is a less-often used ID3 tag and along with many others, isn't supported by Zune. Sorry for those that feel this is important, although if I understand the posts above, it looks like there are several easy workarounds, so shouldn't be a problem.

This is mediocrity at best. if the software supports it, how do you call it when the hardware software don't support/don'tunderstand it ?

ps. it is a bug. even members of your own zune teams know about it.

BTW, how many workarounds we will need to implement for ZuneHD? Because if we start talking about workarounds we can tell you many from Zune 3.1 and below:
- How to install Zune software in XP Media Center
- How to load the Zune drivers in Vista and XP
- How to load .m3u playlists in Zune software
- How to load your Zune Pass music in PFS and Windows Mobile devices
- How to load regular mp3s as podcasts

Many media players have this problem.

Not the ecosystem Zune is trying to mimic (iPod).

[lgilmore23]

64gb...32gb isn't enough to have a subscription service where you can download unlimited

[sumx4182]

Originally Posted by Ricardo Dawkins

This is mediocrity at best. if the software supports it, how do you call it when the hardware software don't support/don'tunderstand it ?

ps. it is a bug. even members of your own zune teams know about it.

BTW, how many workarounds we will need to implement for ZuneHD? Because if we start talking about workarounds we can tell you many from Zune 3.1 and below:
- How to install Zune software in XP Media Center
- How to load the Zune drivers in Vista and XP
- How to load .m3u playlists in Zune software
- How to load your Zune Pass music in PFS and Windows Mobile devices
- How to load regular mp3s as podcasts


Not the ecosystem Zune is trying to mimic (iPod).

I still don't get why I don't see you on other boards making these same complaints as there are MANY players that don't use all the tags. And again, where do you draw the line? Should we implement every tags cause there may be a single person out there who wants to know the beats per minute of each song they have? Get real. They needed to stop somewhere and disc number happened to be that somewhere. Let's face it, you just have something against Microsoft and/or the Zune and this is something you felt you could complain about because you think it shows "mediocracy" when everyone else thinks it's pretty much a normal occurance. If it's left out of the firmware intentionally, it's NOT a bug. Bugs are unintentional errors, not intentional ommisions.

[Maxis]

Originally Posted by sumx4182

EQ is important because it affects how a player SOUNDS! A player PLAYING MUSIC is what it's designed to do. But having a field that says disc 1 or disc 2 is worthless, especially when there's at least 2 other ways to accomplish the same task and neither of them affects the most important thing a player does...PLAY MUSIC!!!

Comparing EQ to a specific tag in the ID3 tag set is apples and oranges. Nice try though.

I'm taking offense because he mentions it in ever thread about the Zune and if that's the worst he can come up with, than MS is doing a good job. I'm so over hearing about the f'n disc number tag. Seriously, he's had that same complaint so many other times and he refuses to do one simple thing. In the same amount of time as it would take to edit the disc number tags, he can edit the track number tags and be done with it. But he'd rather bitch about something that barely matters, if at all.

Theres no apples to oranges going on here ... Regardless of the issue .. If its a top priority for him thats HIS perogative. YOU DONT know if the majority of his music library entails a load of multi disk recordings that arent being read properly. If its your perogative to be an ass about him airing a problem that hes passionate about instead of just ignoring it and move your eyes down to the next post then please .. please carry on ..

I personally had that problem (among numerous others when they moved from zune 1.xx to 2.xx among a whole raft of other hair pulling issues previously and not mentioned. Hes not the only one annoyed with how they are doing things.

The way things are going it appears that some of you are not willing to speak up for things you view are important. Thats your problem.

[sumx4182]

Again, there's a bunch of different ways, all will take equal amount of time to accomplish, that do the same thing as what he wants. It will take the same time to change the track numbers to consecutive as it would to go through and add the disc numbers...why insist on one way when another works just as well.

It IS apples and oranges...absolutely it is.

Ever heard the saying "There's 100 ways to skin a cat"...we've given him the ways...he'd rather skin it with the knife that the Zune doesn't provide. Too bad. At least theres still a way to do it. I can see if it was something like EQ that is there or it's not. This is something he CAN do if he wants, he just refuses. Oh well.

[Maxis]

Originally Posted by sumx4182

Again, there's a bunch of different ways, all will take equal amount of time to accomplish, that do the same thing as what he wants. It will take the same time to change the track numbers to consecutive as it would to go through and add the disc numbers...why insist on one way when another works just as well.

It IS apples and oranges...absolutely it is.

Ever heard the saying "There's 100 ways to skin a cat"...we've given him the ways...he'd rather skin it with the knife that the Zune doesn't provide. Too bad. At least theres still a way to do it. I can see if it was something like EQ that is there or it's not. This is something he CAN do if he wants, he just refuses. Oh well.

I hear your argument.
However. The workarounds you are saying he should do. Would he have to do that (workaround) with the other major players on the market? Or do they come supported out of the box ?
If all the other major daps and their related software supports that feature why the hell do we have to do workarounds to get it to work as it should ?

If all the above premises above are in fact true then i think we will have to agree to disagree here on this issue.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by DaveMac-MS

So while I respect the differing views and wants of consumers - especially here, it is VERY hard to argue that consumers haven't overwhelmingly voted with their feet for a vertical solution. That isn't to say there isn't a market for horizontal platforms, but it is very much the minority market.

Dave, thanks for taking the time to answer my post.

To your point though, about the 'vertical solution': I may be wrong, but in my opinion, at this point in the DAP marketplace the choices are kind of binary---Apple i-'stuff' and everything else. The 'everything else' includes the Zune, Sandisk players, Sony, Samsung, iriver and so on.

Customers that want the vertical solution will go with the market leader in Apple. I think there's a decent profitable niche for companies among customers that prefer, as you put it, horizontal solutions. It's akin to smartphone owners choosing an Android or Nokia/Symbian phone over an iPhone, for its flexibility and use of industry standards.

How the iPod got to be the success it did become may be besides the point. It is what it is. iPods have been Kleenex-ed and Xerox-ed; they've become part of the vernacular.

I think competing manufacturers and platforms have a better shot at not playing Apple's game in that space.

On a side note, the closest I've used to a perfect DAP was an Insignia Pilot, Best Buy's internal brand. It used micro USB charging, an SDHC card slot, replaceable batteries, both MTP and UMS syncing, stereo Bluetooth and a host of other features. Its Achilles heel was its less than great sound quality (for an audio player!) and its chintzy build quality. The thing basically fell apart on me after barely a year of medium usage. Its UI also left much to be desired.

Also, any chance of your employers in Redmond deciding to merge the Zune software with Windows Media Player, say, 12? I find it a waste of pc resources to need to have multiple syncing software for various devices. Besides a Zune 80gb, I also own a Sansa Clip (and a beat up Nano) and I'd love to just be able to sync at least two out of the three with just one piece of software.

[sumx4182]

Originally Posted by Maxis

I hear your argument.
However. The workarounds you are saying he should do. Would he have to do that (workaround) with the other major players on the market? Or do they come supported out of the box ?
If all the other major daps and their related software supports that feature why the hell do we have to do workarounds to get it to work as it should ?

If all the above premises above are in fact true then i think we will have to agree to disagree here on this issue.

You answered your own question...they dont

[The DarkSide]

Originally Posted by sumx4182

You answered your own question...they dont

Considering that I have to change all my double cd sets to CD1 & CD2 means that 99% of all players have the same issue. Big deal. sumx4182 is correct on this. My Cowon, Samsung, Sandisk Sansa, and of course Zune are all the same. Even my iPod had this issue on some cd's.

I respect Ricardo, but he's so pissed at Microsoft right now over his Zune, anything seems to get him worked up. He has some very valid points, but there are other issues as well. He's kool people, but we're not correct 100% of the time, are we? Time for a different MS gripe, and there's plenty!!!!