Sound quality + Drag&Drop + FLAC + Gapless... Does it exist?

[fuzzypits]

I've heard really good things about the Cowon X5 Rockboxed. Might want to take a look at that.

[CrowdAds]

[Jack4L]

Cowon X5 or Cowon M5 are both good. The M5 lacks the color screen, which imo isn't that big a deal. However it also lacks an FM tuner, which might be more of an issue for some, however the M5 doesn't require the use of the X5's rediculous dongle thing.

iRiver H100, iRiver H300, iRiver H10. These 3 players all work well, the H100 is the oldest, larger version, but it comes with an optical output socket, which is somthing you wont find on any other mp3 player. H300 is probably the easiest to find used. Many many oppertunities to buy one that no longer powers on, that can be saved by just changing the battery. These 2 players are rather bulky and "ugly" but meh? The H10 is slightly more rare, but still works just aswell, although it has a touch sensitive pad, which means that they most likely have shorter life spans due to it. Still you can possibly find a working remote for the H10, so even if the pad breaks you can still use the player

All of the above players have atleast 1 version (if not more) that can be modified with the CF mod fairly easily, you'll have to read up on that yourself. Just find out what kinda hard drive they need to use to allow the CF card adaptor to fit in. I know personally that my Cowon M5 20gb and iRiver H320 can be modified, but just havn't gotten arround to that yet, as I dont find anything horribly bad about Hard Drives. Atleast nothing that would make me want to put $60+ into upgrading my players.

Anyway, as none of these players are no longer manufactured, finding them could just be a matter of luck, but I check every now and then on e-Bay and find a few every now and then. So you have to approach it like buying a good used car, as opposed to buying the latest and greatest that nobody has yet properly tested ;P

[suprman2020]

According to this thread on the Rockbox forums, the Sansa Fuze could be close to being finished. If you can wait for it to be completed, that might be an option.

[gcogger]

That's only for the V1 Fuze, though. I could be wrong, but I don't think you can buy that version any more

[This]

I've also read that using Rockbox can adversely affect the sound quality of the device. Not sure if that's true.

I'm not all that interested in hunting down some used old thing personally, and definitely no interest in a fixer-upper. I just wouldn't really trust that it would last very long.

Oh, I was reading in the Cowon S9 forums that the FLAC gapless playback isn't actually gapless still, just *almost* gapless.

I appreciate all the advice and help everyone.

[marc2003]

as i've never had a player that supports gapless, i just merge selected albums into single files using foobar. obviously no good if you want gapless for random tracks but for continuous albums it's perfect. obviously you can't skip tracks and don't have individual track details on screen but as i generally listen to albums from beginning to end in one go, it's a non issue for me.

[dfkt]

Originally Posted by This

I've also read that using Rockbox can adversely affect the sound quality of the device. Not sure if that's true.

If anything Rockbox makes the sound "better", due to the perhaps best EQ you can find on a portable player. The stock EQ of Sansa players is really shabby in comparison. Without sound enhancements Rockbox sounds the same as the stock firmware - meaning really good, compared to most other players.

The Fuze v1 and Clip v1 still can be found new in stores, at least around here...

Originally Posted by This

Oh, I was reading in the Cowon S9 forums that the FLAC gapless playback isn't actually gapless still, just *almost* gapless.

The FLAC files I tested all played perfectly gapless on my S9, didn't notice any glitches so far.

[rubennyc]

Looks like you missed an opportunity. The TrekStor vibez, released back in the fall of '06, would've fit the bill perfectly. It's no longer available now but may be soon.

Take out the drag & drop requirement, and the Rio Karma from back in '03 also would've been perfect for you. (Karmas on ebay.)

Why'd you wait so long? :P


The S9 mentioned above sounds like your best bet right now. I've never heard it myself but trust the folks on this board.

Good luck!

[gcogger]

Originally Posted by dfkt

The Fuze v1 and Clip v1 still can be found new in stores, at least around here...

How would you tell whether it's a V1 or V2?

[dfkt]

By the packaging, by the Sansa font on the front plate, by the lettering and "flower" design of the back plate (if you're lucky and the store has display models). There's one or more threads here on the forums, dealing with "v1 spotting".

[robjrock]

Unfortunately gapless rules out the Samsung P3 - but it does play FLAC & has great SQ.

I doubt you could be disappointed with the Cowon S9... Cowon's sound better than 95% of players out there, and the last 5% is really just down to personal taste I suppose.

Rockbox is tough unless you're willing to pick up an old 5g Video (or 4g even) on Ebay. I was considering (before the latest wave of 32gb flash players came out) picking up a 60gb 5g Video (the one's with the good Wolfson DACs) & DIY iModding it & then using it with an external amp + rockbox.

Its an option, but maybe not if this is your first Mp3 player..! Plus you'd be buying an iPod... you know... eww...

Do any iRiver's have gapless? SQ wise can't go wrong with the big 3 Korean companies (Cowon, Samsing, iRiver)

[dfkt]

Originally Posted by robjrock

Do any iRiver's have gapless?

No, only their Rockbox-able models.

[The DarkSide]

Trekstor is FOS, so even mentioning them is unrealistic. If they actually do come out w/another vibez, especially the flash-based 1, I'd avoid it on sheer principle alone.

[Jest]

Hey. I am in a similar boat. I recently lost my D2 so am looking for a replacement. I couldn't care less about video but FLAC would be great. I don't have that much ripped in FLAC but I don't want to have to convert them to lossy if I don't have to. Drag and drop is a huge plus, and gapless would be nice, but since I use Songbird as a media player on my PC I have done what marc2003 has done and merged all my songs into a single track on albums that need gapless.

I need at least 16gb of storage + SDHC card slot. My just got Etymotic er6i and a Fiio E5 for my birthday too. I have Senn HD555 for home use. Do you guys have any suggestions?

I've been looking into buying a new D2(+) but wasn't crazy about the touch screen. I also need to fit it in an armband with the E5 when I go biking. I'm so lost. I've even thought of buying my friends 5g iPod and putting Rockbox on it and using a line-out to the E5. 1 side for headpones doesn't work though and I'm not sure if that would be a problem with the headphone jack or something that would effect the line-out as well.

[This]

Originally Posted by dfkt

If anything Rockbox makes the sound "better", due to the perhaps best EQ you can find on a portable player. The stock EQ of Sansa players is really shabby in comparison. Without sound enhancements Rockbox sounds the same as the stock firmware - meaning really good, compared to most other players.

Originally Posted by dfkt

The X5 supports Rockbox. It's not like Rockbox has many advantages over the stock firmware, tough. Stock sounds better due to the BBE enhancements, that's all that matters to me - better sound. YMMV. The advantages (for me) of Rockbox are gapless playback, last.fm scrobbling, and WAV recording. Stock firmware has better audio quality (BBE or bust!), better file/folder management, easier navigation (Rockbox is just full of useless junk, i.e. playlists and whatnot).

I guess the difference is the X5 has BBE and Sansa doesn't.

[The DarkSide]

Originally Posted by This

I guess the difference is the X5 has BBE and Sansa doesn't.

Good point - it really makes quite a difference in the SQ of a player. The P3/Q2 are close (to me, it's just as good), but BBE is considered the king.

[dfkt]

Originally Posted by This

I guess the difference is the X5 has BBE and Sansa doesn't.

BBE sure is the biggest plus of Cowon, indeed. However, their normal 5/10-band EQ is usually also good (it varies, depending on the player hardware) - whereas the EQ on Sansa players simply sucks.

[This]

Fiddling with EQ levels isn't something I like. A good bass boost is about all I want to use.

BBE is essentially like that right? There are some presets, you pick one and you're done?

[dfkt]

BBE is a set of enhancements, licensed from BBESound, Inc. One of them is Mach3Bass, which does exactly what the name suggests. It's the best bass enhancer I've heard so far in portable devices. It doesn't make the sound muddy and keeps the signal in phase.

[h1a8]

Originally Posted by This

Thanks for the info. After doing more digging, I think I've come to the conclusion that I should just wait another year or two. There's still no player that seems to really fit my specific (admittedly somewhat niche) needs.

Sansa is out due to no gapless playback. Archos for the same reason plus reportedly mediocre sound quality. The Cowon S9 seems closest but even there there seem to be sound issues, with not as good sound quality as the Sony X-Series which seems to be best in that area - but no lossless support!

Oh well, CDs and my trusty Panasonic Shockwave have lasted me this long.

Dude, the cowon sounds fantastic (with BBE on). And this is coming from someone who only listen to Sony CD players and Sony cassette walkmans. Also the Sony mp3 walkmans does do lossless with wav and gapless at that. I assure you that either of these players would make you super happy.

What type of headphones do you listen to your CD players with?