Can’t really say I agree with a lot of the S9 reviews.

[Blahaha]

At 9 I almost hear nothing at all....well i hear something but it's pretty far off.

At 20 it's decent for listening to music....26 is about how I like it and 30 is about as loud as I will listen to it because I'm worried I'll damage my ears any higher than that.

By the way my S9 setting are set for the US and I'm using Sony MDR-EX300 ear buds.....they are fantastic by the way incase you're looking for some good ear buds.

[mysticstylez]

Originally Posted by amit

If one talks of being user friendly, then what about customisation? One can't even put a wallpaper or change a theme on iPod without jailbreaking it & that does require some technical skills, its a piece of cake in S9 & thus a good extra just like iPod has a good extra like WiFi. But surely one doesn't buy things for extras when core functions aren't good?! Perhaps they do buy into the marketing or perhaps most people just don't care!

I almost peed my pants on this line. You seriously want to compare wifi with wallpaper when it comes to "extras"?

[Blahaha]

Originally Posted by mysticstylez

I almost peed my pants on this line. You seriously want to compare wifi with wallpaper when it comes to "extras"?

I would rather have the option to customize my S9's UI than to have wifi....but then I don't care about internet on my player. I have a pc for that and I don't run around town with my S9 so it would be a useless option for me personally.

But really it's about freedom....which Apple does not give.

[mysticstylez]

Originally Posted by Blahaha

I would rather have the option to customize my S9's UI than to have wifi....but then I don't care about internet on my player. I have a pc for that and I don't run around town with my S9 so it would be a useless option for me personally.

But really it's about freedom....which Apple does not give.

The wifi is not only used for "internet".

[Blahaha]

Originally Posted by mysticstylez

The wifi is not only used for "internet".

Streaming music, buying music....what else?

Remember I'm talking about myself only. My player sits on my desk at work all day and I have a PC in front of me so I have no idea what use it really would be.

[amit]

Originally Posted by mysticstylez

I almost peed my pants on this line. You seriously want to compare wifi with wallpaper when it comes to "extras"?

No I'm not comparing wifi with ability to change wallpaper. I just said that wifi is a good extra on iPod Touch & ability to change UI etc without having to jailbreak is a good extra on S9 - no comparison between two but just pointing out 1 good extra each in both players.

And my point was that when you get a PMP you shouldn't decide to get one just because of an extra, the focus should be on core functionality. If the player can't play my music well, can't play my videos well, has poor battery, doesn't have radio (yes, personally I need that as well so I don't have to carry my mobile's earphones for radio) then I wouldn't pick it because it has a nice extra like wifi or can play games! My mobile can do wifi & if my focus was gaming then I would've got a PSP or something.

Originally Posted by mysticstylez

The wifi is not only used for "internet".

It can be used in a local loop to transfer files & sync as well but it can't be done on iPod Touch without jailbreaking & using an app written for its OS. Out of box its just for using internet!

Same way S9 has bluetooth but out of box its only for pairing with an audio output device - headphones or speakers. It would be really great if Cowon opens up bluetooth on S9 to allow sync & file transfers etc.

[JonathanC]

Originally Posted by aki

You can lock the screen and still use the buttons.

I know that, and I said I thought it was a nice touch. But my main issue with the UI is that BBE enhancements frequently need to be changed, and not only can this not be done without unlocking the player--and never mind that I find it usually takes a palm of one hand and a finger of the other to change the BBE setting--but even unlocking the player takes two hands unless I'm willing to slowly rotate the player around in one hand, using my fingers, which is obviously awkward.

I know of no other candy bar device which places an important button, to which you need frequent access, on the bottom edge.

As far as volume: I received a pair of Future Sonics Atrio earphones today which seem to require even more volume from this device than my triple.fi 10 pro's did.

[h1a8]

Originally Posted by JonathanC

There is enough discrepancy between other people's volume preferences in this thread that my own preference isn't that remarkable, except insofar as I'm on the loud end of the scale.

Actually preference has nothing to do it with since it is obvious something is seriously wrong here. There is a huge difference between not being able to hear anything vs. its too loud I can't go to sleep. So its not black and white and thinking outside of the box is needed in determining the problem.

No compressed, lossless format support. Ridiculous. And too little capacity to bother with .wav.

Why do people care about lossless so much?
I used to until I doubled ABX Lame v0 vs. wav files and failed miserbly.
Have you ever double ABX Lame v0 with success? No one I ever heard of in this world has successfully done so. I guess the placebo effect makes the difference.

Anyway, the only reason why I would like Sony to have better lossless support is because of their gapless support for it. I would rather have a gapless flac album on the player vs. a gapless wav album.

[Marvin the Martian]

Originally Posted by h1a8

.

Why do people care about lossless so much?
I used to until I doubled ABX Lame v0 vs. wav files and failed miserbly.
Have you ever double ABX Lame v0 with success? No one I ever heard of in this world has successfully done so. I guess the placebo effect makes the difference.

Anyway, the only reason why I would like Sony to have better lossless support is because of their gapless support for it. I would rather have a gapless flac album on the player vs. a gapless wav album.

Yeah, it's ridiculous to have wav on a portable player. I wouldn't even do FLAC now, but at least it's not as ridiculously huge as a wav file. LAME V0, even Vorbis q6, sounds just like the FLAC to me. FLAC's on the computer, that's all well and good....but until I have a really large capacity portable, well-done lossy is good enough for me.

[newone]

Before I add my 2 cents here just a word to your volume discussion. You all know that there would be a volume block if you set the S9 to a European country on the first setup!? The EU is limiting the max volume for such devices and so there could be a difference if you live in different countries...

The S9 is my first pmp (well after a disc-/walkman long time ago) and so I really compared the available players on the market. Even though my brother uses an iPhone and tried to push me to the touch. But there is this one simple deadly argument for the S9 (besides having the much better audio/video quality, but who cares, does this really matter for a pmp ): You aren't forced to use a specific software to use your player! You aren't forced to let a company have an in depth view into your life to use all features of your player!

People are so much used to be manipulated by the industry the don't even care nowadays...

[JonathanC]

Originally Posted by h1a8

Actually preference has nothing to do it with since it is obvious something is seriously wrong here. There is a huge difference between not being able to hear anything vs. its too loud I can't go to sleep. So its not black and white and thinking outside of the box is needed in determining the problem.

If you want to tell the person listening at 9 the same thing, when the average person is listening at a level as far from 9 as from the level I use, fine. But you're only telling me. Does the person listening at 9 have an overly loud player? Do they have an illness making them hypersensitive to sound? (And "thinking outside the box," a cliche about cliche avoidance, should really be avoided by such dynamic, independent thinkers as yourself.)

I accept that the player may have something wrong with it. Anyway, the many professional reviews that have found it lacking in many ways seem on target to me. I mentioned volume only as one issue among many. It has poorly designed virtual and physical controls and requires constant tweaking, made difficult by those controls, to maintain a good sound as I move from one recording to another. Even then, its sound doesn't impress me much relative to my old Vision:M. BBE wrecks vocals and probably wrecks any other sound the listener knows well enough. The soundstage is basically nonexistent, and I've used it with two reputable sets of earphones now. I think the average critic's note that this is "really the player for sound quality" comes from surveying the many extras which can admittedly improve the sound beyond the player's unremarkable default signature. It's been said by others here that it's absurd to mention great sound quality as an aside, and I agree. One explanation is that writers aren't really talking about sound quality, but about sound possibilities.

Why do people care about lossless so much?
I used to until I doubled ABX Lame v0 vs. wav files and failed miserbly.
Have you ever double ABX Lame v0 with success? No one I ever heard of in this world has successfully done so. I guess the placebo effect makes the difference.

This is the first time I've seen someone dismiss lossless so bluntly. Maybe you do think outside the bun! I'd love to see a link to some evidence that "no one in this world has succesfully done so." And no, I don't bother setting up listening tests in my home, except with this player, and it's failing. I like .wav for its simplicity, and its affect on battery life. Either way, 32GB in such an expensive device, and today's reliance on flash memory, are silly. There's a fairly popular device that would allow me to avoid both.

[JonathanC]

Originally Posted by newone

Before I add my 2 cents here just a word to your volume discussion. You all know that there would be a volume block if you set the S9 to a European country on the first setup!? The EU is limiting the max volume for such devices and so there could be a difference if you live in different countries...

I'm pretty certain I selected non-Euro Union and then USA when I set up the player. I can't see how to check now however.

You aren't forced to use a specific software to use your player! You aren't forced to let a company have an in depth view into your life to use all features of your player!

People are so much used to be manipulated by the industry the don't even care nowadays...

I have a Macbook Pro, and the amount of software I've downloaded in attempting to convert and re-tag my files for this device has been absurd. No one has actually had a suggestion for me with regard to automatic re-tagging, after a .wav to .flac conversion, that didn't involve buying another operating system or at least an emulation program. As I said elsewhere: if you want something so grand as simply your tracks showing up in the right order within an album, "the simplicity of drag and drop" seems to be a myth. If the better aspects of the player's sound weren't so dubious--BBE turns everything into bouncy bubblegum if you try hard enough, but is that what I want for all my music?--I'd happily stick it out. But my Vision:M is actually showing new signs of life since I finally bought a new wall outlet adapter for it (USB charging made it go cuckoo, it seems), so I may stay loyal to it and wait for something better. Ideally the next revision of the iPod Classic will address some of the criticisms of the current version, and I'll happily use an amp to correct any of its sound problems, which I seriously doubt could be greater than the Cowon's. That's my impression at the moment.

[dfkt]

The problem seems to be indeed that you're using a Mac, and most people here in the forums don't. For Windows or Linux, me (and certainly many other people) would have a lot of suggestions. Too bad it seems you're more or less on your own with a Mac in here.

[JonathanC]

Originally Posted by dfkt

The problem seems to be indeed that you're using a Mac, and most people here in the forums don't. For Windows or Linux, me (and certainly many other people) would have a lot of suggestions. Too bad it seems you're more or less on your own with a Mac in here.

Yes, I agree. It has been a learning experience however and I may try yet another non-iPod. I appreciate all the advice and criticism and am done torturing everyone for now.

[dexterslabmi]

Blahaha - glad you finally came aboard.... you have been deciding for a long time .
Their are MAC users here.... a few. I have shared a few posts with JonathanC. Drop and drag is not as easy with a mac but its not a myth. I drop and drag video files and music all of the time (blueharvest or oynx is needed prevent ds_store files). Tagging can be more of a challenge on mac (Musorg is a standalone editior and itunes has tons of addons that do auto tagging for mp3s, I have few suggestions for lossless files since I dont use them and high bit rate MP3 are fine for me.) The one suggestion I do have is a program called Max which converts, tags and adds album art.

Also I have shared with JC software tips for video (VisualHub and handbrake).

Lastly the volume limits you guys are talking about are pretty high. Even on the city bus I could not bear 30 with my S9.... could also be headphone related.
Blahaha... I use to have Sonys... but my FullMetalJackets were much more efficient and louder. Personal volume max went from 35 to 25 .

[The DarkSide]

Well, TBH, the volume of the S9 (compared to the Cowon D2 I used to have) is actually kinda low. I use hp's that can be between 24 & 60 ohms. The Touch 2G (recently sold) did have a higher max volume output. The SQ wasn't as good as the S9 (not even close actually), but it did get more than loud enough, even @60ohms (Sony MDR-V6 hp's). The D2 is rated @37mw per channel, the S9 @29mw per channel. I believe the Touch is 30mw p/c, but dont' hold me to that.

FWIW, I think the issue is that most of us base the performance on the Touch lineup (and rightfully so). SQ aside, the damn thing really is much better than we give it credit. And wifi isn't a useless feature for some, and apps and games DO NOT perform anywhere near as well on the S9 (or P3 for that matter). Yes, the two of them are great players in their own right, but neither is for all.

Personally, I don't think the S9 is for you JonathanC, and not because your "not worthy". It's because it doesn't perform the way you expected it to, as well as an iPod Touch.

The DarkSide isn't my first name on ABI, I changed it when I had got my hands on a Touch 2G awhile back. I'm actually quite fond of the Touch line, but the SQ was too OFF for me. I just need a player that excels in music and video playback, and the S9 is my choice. Unlike some here I'll willingly admit to many faults w/the S9's menu and button layout, but I'm willing to deal w/it since the S9's SQ appeals to me so.

As for your needs, you really need to see what's best for you, and no amount of time spent w/the S9 will change the dislike and issues you already have w/the player. If you try to adjust, then you'll be just like all the people that this site calls "sheep". JonathanC, do what's best for you bro, and SCREW what ANYBODY else may think!!!!

[dfkt]

The volume/SPL of the S9 has come up a few times in here, this might be of interest: http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum...74&postcount=1 - it's basically 1dB quieter than the D2 or X5, and a few dB louder than the Sansa Clip (at least with 16 Ohm phones).

[butler360]

This is a really funny post. I can't imagine why anyone would have an entire library of tagged WAV files and then complain because a compact 32GB player doesn't hold it all considering how expensive it is. I mean, didn't you see that it's 32GB? And then you just need to compare tht to your WAV library and pretty soon you would have realized... it's not gonna work!

Honestly, it sounds like no current player is going to work for you, JonathanC. Until the WAVMaster3000 comes out in 2015 (12TB, impeccable touchscreen, builtin amp, remarkable default sound signature, sides designed by Steve Jobs) you'll have to compromise somewhere.

[mrigank.pawar]

I think that the FM reception is perfect (in Australia). There's no problem whatsoever.

[mrigank.pawar]

Originally Posted by butler360

This is a really funny post. I can't imagine why anyone would have an entire library of tagged WAV files and then complain because a compact 32GB player doesn't hold it all considering how expensive it is. I mean, didn't you see that it's 32GB? And then you just need to compare tht to your WAV library and pretty soon you would have realized... it's not gonna work!

Honestly, it sounds like no current player is going to work for you, JonathanC. Until the WAVMaster3000 comes out in 2015 (12TB, impeccable touchscreen, builtin amp, remarkable default sound signature, sides designed by Steve Jobs) you'll have to compromise somewhere.

Lol.