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  #21  
Old 07-01-2009, 05:05 PM
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The touch screen seems fine to me but then I never messed with it before updating it....so I have no idea if you should expect better after updating the FW.
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  #22  
Old 07-01-2009, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by JonathanC View Post
I've just spent several hours today in awe of it, after switching on BBE ViVA. I'm definitely keeping it. And since I still haven't updated the firmware (it looks like I'm one or two versions behind), maybe I shouldn't say this, but: the touchscreen sucks. Sucks, sucks, sucks. I'll retract if it doesn't suck after the update. But the biggest problem is how small everything is, and that it always seems to require a double-tap (maybe this can be changed?). I feel a strong need for a stylus.

The screen doesn't really impress me--it's more difficult to read outdoors than my Creative Zen Vision:M's screen is--but I haven't watched any videos on it and may never. I bought it to have the latest BBE enhancements.

I like being able to lock the screen without locking the buttons. But it's very awkward that the lock switch is on the bottom. It would have been much better on the sides.

I'm getting decent radio reception.

The sides still look stupid.

More deep thoughts later.

EDIT: Oh, and it isn't that loud. I'm using $369, 32 ohm impedance earphones. I have one freshly ripped album that had me turning the volume all the way up to 40. And no, I'm not deaf.

I've yet to turn the volume below 30.
I can't imagine what trouble you could have with the touch screen. At the very first, I thought maybe the touch was finicky, but I quickly saw that the fault was mine, not the screen. It took me a little bit to get used to it, but now it's perfect and does what I expect it to do every time.

But I really wanted to talk to you about that volume thing...

You might want to check your rip settings or something, because I typically run my S9's volume at around 9 unless the surroundings are noisy.
At night in bed, anything over 7 keeps me awake. 6 usually seems to be about perfect at night for me.
But I'm very picky about my rip settings and recording settings, and I keep my recording volume right where it should be, just shy of the "orange" on the scale.
Recording volume, or rip settings, can make a huge difference as to how high you have to turn your player up to hear it as well as you should.

As far as the lock switch being on the bottom of the S9; that same switch (and other switches) were all mounted on the sides of my X5L, and I found that I often bumped them while holding the unit. I often started recording unintended, or paused or whatever just because I kept hitting those switches.
I rather like having the sides of the S9 being clean, because that's where my fingers always end up when I hold it. I like having to go to the bottom (or top) to use any of the mechanical switches because when I do that, I'm using them on purpose instead of accidental.

But that's just my .02...
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  #23  
Old 07-01-2009, 05:24 PM
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Anything over 30 for volume is too loud for me. Really 30 is even too loud to me...
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  #24  
Old 07-01-2009, 05:28 PM
Uphaillife Uphaillife is offline
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20 makes me deaf. 15 does too. -_-
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  #25  
Old 07-01-2009, 05:33 PM
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20 makes me deaf. 15 does too. -_-

hmm...strange. I'm about perfect at 26 and 30 if I want to really jam but anything over that is too high.
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  #26  
Old 07-01-2009, 05:39 PM
Uphaillife Uphaillife is offline
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Originally Posted by Blahaha View Post
hmm...strange. I'm about perfect at 26 and 30 if I want to really jam but anything over that is too high.
hrm. my bbe settings pushes the volume up quite high though even at low volumes. however at normal too (with stock ear buds) i don't go anywhere above volume 15... up to 20 doesn't hurt my ears, but its a bit loud for my ears.
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  #27  
Old 07-01-2009, 06:22 PM
JonathanC JonathanC is offline
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I'm listening to .wav files mostly, so that's not a factor. And yes, any BBE does make it louder. The first "Headphones" one seems to make it loudest.

The album I turned it up to 40 on is a rare copy of the second American Music Club album, which is a pretty quiet album.

As far as my being a rare example of someone thinking the touchscreen sucks, you may have noticed a review or two voicing the same opinion.

I think I like it. I'm waiting until my new earphones show up, hopefully tomorrow, to completely decide. It was never the ideal player for me--an iPod Classic that doesn't sound like a power drill would have been--but I'm more than willing to make sacrifices.
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  #28  
Old 07-01-2009, 08:44 PM
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I guess i-pods are Nokias of the mp3 player world and almost evry review is given by using an ipod as standard. Evry1 used to own Nokia fones previously and say that they are 'user-friendly' and the 'best' fones. Then, people started changing to Sony Ericsson and Samsung and LG fones. I rarely see any Nokia fones nowadays.
We all know that Nokia fones are not the 'best' anymore.
Any1 agree?
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  #29  
Old 07-01-2009, 10:49 PM
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Although I don't think my firmware was particularly old, I did update, and instead of picking the latest stable version I went with the beta. The screen may be a bit more responsive now, but the icons at the bottom of the screen, on the flippable bar, are still impossible to hit with my thumb. Furthermore, I'm getting retarded new screens and graphics that don't interest me at all, and which serve no purpose so far as my still hopelessly untagged files are concerned.

I'm personally leaning toward returning it at the moment. With all BBE off, it gives a mediocre sound. With the right BBE for the right album turned on, it gets a somewhat better sound than my ancient, $150 Vision:M, a cleaner sound certainly, but the Vision:M gives a "wider" sound, which is what I suppose is meant by the term "soundstage." The amount of tweaking that's required, when changing from one album to another, is a problem when the erratic interface is factored in.

Then, there is the fact that I'm on a Mac. And that because of the device's small capacity, I need to convert my large number of .wav files to .flac. Apparently there is no way I can do this, and avoid manually re-adding metadata to each file after conversion, without purchasing Windows emulation software, and using a tag editing application. I'm not OK with that. iTunes, though, is somehow making perfect sense out of the .wav's that XNJB has harvested from my Vision:M, and an iPod classic could handle them just as they are, or I could convert to Apple Lossless. I've thought iPods sounded harsh when I've dipped into that world before, but the Classic is due for an update and Apple may have heard the complaints about the current chip.

Jet Audio didn't even send me the color I ordered. "Drag and drop," for me, turns out to be a myth, thanks to a little thing called Vorbis Comments. I'm not sure a Classic with an amp wouldn't be the best solution. There are flaws in the S9's sound that are apparent to me with my triple.fi 10 pro's. "Bass roll off" is about as meaningless a phrase as I can imagine--how does bass roll, and what does it roll off of?--but BBE is required to give the music any strength, and BBE often dilutes or "scatters" vocals in a way I'm not OK with. Comparing the sound of bass guitar on the Vision:M to how the S9 reproduces it, I find myself hearing the sound of an actual string being plucked on the former, and something more synthetic on the latter. And yes, I'm listening to it with the volume almost all the way up. That someone has their volume at 9 is unbelievable to me. I just set it at 9 and I could barely tell what song was playing. My hearing's tested yearly. It's fine.

I dislike the idea that I'm already pushing the device to its limits in several ways.

I'm due to get a pair of Future Sonic Atrio's tomorrow, so I'll wait until then to definitely decide. But at the moment I'd rather have a player with better capacity, a better sound before album-specific tweaking, and buttons I can press on the first--or the second!--try. Oh, and one that doesn't require me to have an extra operating system, or emulator, so that my tracks end up in the right order.
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  #30  
Old 07-01-2009, 10:54 PM
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I think you should return it as well. You have not seemed happy with pretty much anything about the player so maybe it's just not for you.

To each his own ya know?
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  #31  
Old 07-01-2009, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Blahaha View Post
I think you should return it as well. You have not seemed happy with pretty much anything about the player so maybe it's just not for you.

To each his own ya know?
I agree, return it and move on. There are so many other players out there, choose away.
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  #32  
Old 07-01-2009, 11:49 PM
JonathanC JonathanC is offline
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I agree, return it and move on. There are so many other players out there, choose away.
It would be many of the same hassles with almost any other player, I think. It's because of how many files I have, what I want to do with them, and my wanting to do it on a Mac without involving Windows or Windows emulation, which is simply messy. Anyway, I haven't had the thing for an entire day. I should stop thinking out loud.
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  #33  
Old 07-02-2009, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by JonathanC View Post

And yes, I'm listening to it with the volume almost all the way up. That someone has their volume at 9 is unbelievable to me. I just set it at 9 and I could barely tell what song was playing. My hearing's tested yearly. It's fine.
You are funny dude. You have to learn to think outside of the box and more logical. Obviously if your hearing is fine yet others find volume at 9 is loud enough to keep them awake then the problem is something else. It could be that your headphones require an amp (some 32ohm headphones act like 80ohm phones or more). Also many songs (older one's) are very quiet when compared to the newer stuff. Lastly, some settings when ripping the music reduces the volume.

Have you thought about the sony x series? Expensive but will definitely be your perfect player based off your critique of the S9. Great build quality. Plus many people who have both (especially on head-fi) prefer the Sony sound. All say that it has a cleaner and wider sound. Me? I'm not touching one until they drop the price. I'll wait till hell freeze over first or until the new zune comes out.
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  #34  
Old 07-02-2009, 02:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Blahaha View Post
anyone can use it, .
I can't really use ipods, I own two of them and I about break down into tears each time I have to use one. Well, each time I hook one of them up to my PC. But other than that they're just hooked up to my car stereo head unit.

Now for JonathanC: Tell us what headphones your using, not just the ohms and price(come on, price? really??). There is more to how loud headphones will be than just the ohms, the sensitivity of them will also effect it. Like my 56 ohm Westone ES3X never go above 17 volume, and when in a quiet place I can turn it all the way down to like 7. Where as with my Atrios then I never go below 17, you can post your volume results with them once you get them.

As for what I personally think about the player, build quality: top notch, I put mine through MUCH more abuse than my other DAPs and it has no protection on it, while the others have always had protection and this one is holding up very well. For the looks, wow, drop dead sexy(titanium version). Sound quality: Very good for a DAP, love the BBE and M3B. Now about the UI, I find that you can easily pick it up and get it rolling without much hassle, but to take advantage of all its features then you do need to spend some time with it. And as for the touching, sometimes I do have to double touch, but thats usually only when my fingers are dirty/greasey.
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  #35  
Old 07-02-2009, 04:12 AM
JonathanC JonathanC is offline
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Originally Posted by h1a8 View Post
You are funny dude. You have to learn to think outside of the box and more logical.
Patronizing.

Quote:
Obviously if your hearing is fine yet others find volume at 9 is loud enough to keep them awake then the problem is something else. It could be that your headphones require an amp (some 32ohm headphones act like 80ohm phones or more).
There is enough discrepancy between other people's volume preferences in this thread that my own preference isn't that remarkable, except insofar as I'm on the loud end of the scale.

I'm using UE triple.fi pro 10's. They've never required an amp with anything else I've used them with, though they may well have benefited from one.

Quote:
Also many songs (older one's) are very quiet when compared to the newer stuff. Lastly, some settings when ripping the music reduces the volume.
I'm listening to mostly .wav files. I am listening to them at near the volume level at which the ABI review of the S9 remarked that the sound begins to break up.

Quote:
Have you thought about the sony x series?
No compressed, lossless format support. Ridiculous. And too little capacity to bother with .wav.
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  #36  
Old 07-02-2009, 04:18 AM
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when i had the S9 and mentioned the low volume it was pointed out to me that the Korean version of the firmware is indeed louder, not sure if that is still true, i naver installed it so i cant comment on the validity of that comment
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  #37  
Old 07-02-2009, 05:20 AM
JonathanC JonathanC is offline
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Originally Posted by maderin1 View Post
when i had the S9 and mentioned the low volume it was pointed out to me that the Korean version of the firmware is indeed louder, not sure if that is still true, i naver installed it so i cant comment on the validity of that comment
That's an interesting possibility. Mine came from a Cowon facility in Nevada. Since updating the firmware last evening (I used the new beta link from this forum), I haven't listened to it enough to notice a difference--I was more interested in improved touch sensitivity. Also, my ears were pretty fatigued from trying to make up my mind about it all day. I'll think about it again if my Atrio earphones finally show up today.
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  #38  
Old 07-02-2009, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by JonathanC View Post
I've just spent several hours today in awe of it, after switching on BBE ViVA. I'm definitely keeping it. And since I still haven't updated the firmware (it looks like I'm one or two versions behind), maybe I shouldn't say this, but: the touchscreen sucks. Sucks, sucks, sucks. I'll retract if it doesn't suck after the update. But the biggest problem is how small everything is, and that it always seems to require a double-tap (maybe this can be changed?). I feel a strong need for a stylus.

The screen doesn't really impress me--it's more difficult to read outdoors than my Creative Zen Vision:M's screen is--but I haven't watched any videos on it and may never. I bought it to have the latest BBE enhancements.

I like being able to lock the screen without locking the buttons. But it's very awkward that the lock switch is on the bottom. It would have been much better on the sides.

I'm getting decent radio reception.

The sides still look stupid.

More deep thoughts later.

EDIT: Oh, and it isn't that loud. I'm using $369, 32 ohm impedance earphones. I have one freshly ripped album that had me turning the volume all the way up to 40. And no, I'm not deaf.

I've yet to turn the volume below 30.
You can lock the screen and still use the buttons. Go to system and there should be something like 'Manage hold status'. By default it is on 'All' but you can set it on 'Screen Only'
p.s. I don't have it on english so names could differ a bit.

Are you sure you set your screen on the brightest? amoled should be more readable with a lot of light than lcd.

You gotta accept that the whole interface is double tap based, so try to get used to it, or return :P
In the browser you can 'zoom' which makes the text blocks bigger so that might solve quite a bit of your problems.
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  #39  
Old 07-02-2009, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Blahaha View Post
I don't know but to recommend "superior construction, intuitive user interface, and breadth of features" over better audio and video quality is just strange to me. I mean don't you buy these types of devices for sound and video?
Yes, thats the point. A portable media player is basically for audio & video, everything else is just an extra. What extra features does iPod has besides WiFi? S9 doesn't have that, thats the only thing, otherwise S9 can also have games & apps (its just not very popular like iPod so no developers for it yet).

If one talks of being user friendly, then what about customisation? One can't even put a wallpaper or change a theme on iPod without jailbreaking it & that does require some technical skills, its a piece of cake in S9 & thus a good extra just like iPod has a good extra like WiFi. But surely one doesn't buy things for extras when core functions aren't good?! Perhaps they do buy into the marketing or perhaps most people just don't care!


Quote:
Originally Posted by mrigank.pawar View Post
I guess i-pods are Nokias of the mp3 player world and almost evry review is given by using an ipod as standard. Evry1 used to own Nokia fones previously and say that they are 'user-friendly' and the 'best' fones. Then, people started changing to Sony Ericsson and Samsung and LG fones. I rarely see any Nokia fones nowadays.
We all know that Nokia fones are not the 'best' anymore.
Any1 agree?
I disagree. Nokia's UI is still more dumbed down & user friendly than Sony Ericsson & LG mobile phones. I know, I've tried a lot of them. Samsung on other hand is improving quite a lot, it has come a long way in last 1 year & their stuff is improving! And dunno if it matters, I no longer use Nokia regularly (still have my N70 ME with backup connection), I moved over to Windows Mobile last year & like the features a lot & there are lots of customisations available for its UI so that's not a problem either! The new WM would be coming with a major overhaul of UI so heavy customisations won't be required anyways!


Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanC View Post
And yes, I'm listening to it with the volume almost all the way up. That someone has their volume at 9 is unbelievable to me. I just set it at 9 and I could barely tell what song was playing. My hearing's tested yearly. It's fine.
If your hearing is fine & if your songs' volume is not low then perhaps you should get a replacement on your S9. I don't listen at volume 9 (too low for me) but my comfort zone is between 16-19 & if I'm outdoors then max I go is 22. Anything above 22 is too damn loud. But I've some videos etc. which require high volume as their volume is low. Like I ripped my DVD of Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon to put on S9 recently & I had to jack up the volume above 30 for that to be able to listen to dialogues etc comfortably!
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  #40  
Old 07-02-2009, 07:58 AM
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I got my S9 around 4 weeks ago I think, it was a godsend to me after using an iriver SPINN for a while; which was nice but had a quite slow (albeit very easy to pick up and kind of stlyish) interface (which was also theme-able through Flash) , only 262k colour screen - it's AMOLED but it does look a bit darker than the S9s screen for some reason other than the colour banding present sometimes - it also didn't sound just as good as the S9 overall, SRS really stinks too xD.

I have the volume on my S9 at around 6-20 max and I listen to very little loud music (Final Fantasy- VII,IX,X,X-2 and XI OST oh and Advent Children, Myst, Donnie Donnie Darko soundtracks, various Beatles albums, a few Pink Floyd albums and various Jazz music and some Jimi Hendrix stuff, all of which are not at all, other than Jimi Hendrix :P , very loud).

In bed I have it at 1, I've noticed that with BBE enhancements on in loud songs that the volume at 0 isn't fully muted! (on firmware 2.30, I'm downloading 2.31 right this second)

Try, with absolutely no surrounding noises listening to a very loud song (heavy metal will probably do ) and with a BBE enhancement on, you'd probably want IEMs just for the extra volume. That or using an amp set to increase the volume heaps, you'll probably get quite a lot of background noise but nonetheless, it's still playing something.

In terms of interface I guess it's up to what UCI your using :P but I'll admit that the default interface is a tad bland and it is put to shame by some other players, in my opinion, the Clix 2's interface, which could also be themed with Flash is the best interface of any player that I've used.

To the people listening to it at around 30 or 40, it could be too quiet to you because you selected the European option thingy when you first got an S9, which according from what I've heard limits the volume down by a bit.

If someone likes their other player better than the S9, don't be a bully, give them a hug and tell them it's all going to be okay.

Just kidding, it's just that you guys need to take account that no matter how hard you try to persuade someone they are still human and still will have their own opinion, no matter if it was influenced by someone or a marketing campaign.

End of not-a-rant-but-trying-to-be-somewhat-informative-yet-entertaining-assembly-of-letters-and-symbols thing.
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