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  #741  
Old 09-18-2009, 01:32 AM
SwiftJudgement SwiftJudgement is offline
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http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/15/n...agenta-purple/

Any comment on this Dave?
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  #742  
Old 09-19-2009, 01:14 AM
John566 John566 is offline
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In case anyone cares. I tested the old zune wired remote on the Zune HD and it works great. This is great news to me.
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  #743  
Old 09-20-2009, 02:32 AM
SwiftJudgement SwiftJudgement is offline
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Bump for where'd you go dave?
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  #744  
Old 09-20-2009, 05:43 AM
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Bump for where'd you go dave?
Chillaxin... come on man, it's the weekend
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  #745  
Old 09-20-2009, 12:37 PM
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Dave's still actively posting Zune HD threads...I wonder if this particular thread fell off his radar after it was moved.
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  #746  
Old 09-20-2009, 02:39 PM
DaveMac-MS DaveMac-MS is offline
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Originally Posted by epithetless View Post
Dave's still actively posting Zune HD threads...I wonder if this particular thread fell off his radar after it was moved.
Sorry folks - having a hard time keeping up with the flow of traffic. Plus I'm getting a bunch of email on the side, not to mention my regular flow of email that has roughly tripled since launch.

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Originally Posted by quintets_man View Post
I was just wondering why we're forced to use the Zune Software to transfer music? I mean would it be that hard to let us have a choice as in we can use the Zune Software if we want but we could also Drag 'n' Drop or use Mediamonkey, etc.

And why is it the Zune still can't sync to WMP? I mean WMP is from Microsoft like the Zune so I thought it be common sense to have it sync to your own product.
I have answered this question before, but it makes sense to revisit seeing as the history of posts on here is becoming harder and harder to sort through.

The very simple answer is that we want to provide an all-inclusive, simple, and feature rich PC client to sync your content, consume content (watch movies/podcasts, stream music, tune channels, etc...) and discover new content. The absolute easiest way to do this is to create dedicated software. If we added this functionality to WMP, then we'd either have to limit this functionality to only when your Zune plugs in (in which case we'd get support calls left and right wondering why WMP doesn't "work as well" with a SanDisk device as their Zune) OR we'd have to work with all the device makers to support all the extra stuff we do in Zune to make that all work. In both cases, you're looking at MASSIVE extra overhead.

So, Zune senior leadership decided that we were going to create as great an overall experience as we could. We'd make a device, PC software, an Xbox client, a web client, and tie them all together. I don't think we're "seamless" yet, but we're a WAY closer than we've ever been.

We can talk about PlaysForSure in another thread - but that was effectively the experience you're asking about. Lots of devices, WMP as the client, and any store you like. For a bunch of reasons that didn't work out and offered no real competition to the "just works" philosophy (and reality) of Apple's offerings.

We don't directly compete against Samsung, SanDisk, Creative, Cowon, etc... Sure, perhaps for some folks our hardware does, but what we're selling - our "product" if you will - is much more than that.

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Originally Posted by SwiftJudgement View Post
Nope!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashen View Post
One thing I learned was PEOPLE ARE DUMB-STUPID, and they go for what looks nice to them first, then think about brand name, unless its an ipod, then enlarge the name is what sells, hell alot of people didnt even have the mental connection that ipod is an apple product, some didnt even know who apple is they thought the company name was Mac.......(no, again not kidding here)
<snip>
As to making zune a household name, yeah thats the goal, BUT when you lock down the player tighter even then apply locks them down, you endup loosing interest from the geeks who tell their friends what to buy, by not giving the geeks something to make them/us go "WOW" and "SWEET" you loose word of mouth and sales to other makers who do have those little "neet-o" features like mtp/msc mode support of flac/vorbis support.
- for those new to the forum, or this sub-forum, meet Ashen. He/she won't stop with the FLAC/OGG/MTP demands until he gets a personal call from Bill Gates apologising for our incredible short-sightedness and pledging to personally code those features into the next build.

But jokes aside Ashen - people are not "dumb stupid". People like products to "just work". They typically are NOT tech-savvy, and they want something that is dead simple to use and will be intuitive without reading through manuals and instructions.

People in THIS forum don't fall into that 80+% bucket, nor do I, nor do most employees at Microsoft. But... we all have to recognize that if Zune wants a bigger slice of that 80+% demographic, we have to cater to that audience first.

I maintain that the way Cowon, etc... achieves profitability with a product that supports more codecs than us, different connectivity, etc... is because they don't invest in:

1) Maintaining their own marketplace
2) High end industrial design
3) High end device UI design
4) Mass media marketing
5) Broad retail availability
6) Accessories ecosystem
7) Maintaining a PC client which makes buying & syncing content dead simple.

And I could go on. The best bit is - that's great! They have carved out a (presumably) profitable niche in the MP3 category making the devices they do. They are clearly doing something right because they have a lot of fans in this forum - which is awesome. But, I keep pointing out - just as it was completely fine for them to make the decision to NOT to invest in the above elements, it's also completely fine for us TO invest in the above elements.

If none of those elements resonate with you, then you might find a Cowon device more to your liking. But, if any of those things DO resonate with you - Apple's iPods are no longer your only choice.

Hopefully that clarifies.

Cheers, Dave.
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  #747  
Old 09-20-2009, 06:57 PM
Olley Olley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMac-MS View Post
I maintain that the way Cowon, etc... achieves profitability with a product that supports more codecs than us, different connectivity, etc... is because they don't invest in:

1) Maintaining their own marketplace
2) High end industrial design
3) High end device UI design
4) Mass media marketing
5) Broad retail availability
6) Accessories ecosystem
7) Maintaining a PC client which makes buying & syncing content dead simple.
I'll have to challenge you with #2. I bought an S9 because they DID invest in the design. LINK. They also put considerable thought into the UI, and some of it was to leave open the possibility of changing it to the end users. They have continued to improve the OS and app capabilities on a monthly basis. There's more there than meets the eye. They also have a U.S. based retail arm.
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  #748  
Old 09-20-2009, 07:44 PM
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sassafras sassafras is offline
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The Zune HD will sell and appeal to many people precisely for the reasons why you will never own one, Ashen. That doesn't make people dumb-stupid. If I have money to spend on an mp3 player I am going to buy one that appeals to my needs. Will I personally ever own a Zune HD? Probably not. Is it a fantastic alternative to the iPod ecosystem? Sounds like it.
The only "dumb-stupid" person is the one who spends their time railing against a product because he doesn't want to buy it. Buy something else if it doesn't meet your needs.

[Edit: Removed a lot...]
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Last edited by sassafras; 09-20-2009 at 11:59 PM.
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  #749  
Old 09-21-2009, 12:58 AM
kindarandomz kindarandomz is offline
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hey dave
i was wondering what the zune team is working on now, perhaps apps? when can we see another update on anything?

i know its been less than a week, but i'm really excited to see what could be added to such an amazing device
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  #750  
Old 09-21-2009, 11:24 AM
mr.zune mr.zune is offline
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Dave, can you tell us if the ZuneHD is going to have an email client, notes and perhaps a new browser makeover?

Any news on 3rd party publisher/developers?
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  #751  
Old 09-22-2009, 02:56 AM
DaveMac-MS DaveMac-MS is offline
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Well guys I can tell you that the team is not stopping still. I can't tell you what we're doing aside from working on the apps we've previously announced.

Cheers, Dave.
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  #752  
Old 09-22-2009, 07:12 AM
Olley Olley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMac-MS View Post
I can't tell you what we're doing aside from working on the apps we've previously announced. Cheers, Dave.
Thanks for wanting to anyway . You have iron willpower. That's one reason I couldn't work for MS or Apple. Where I work we are encouraged to share all we know.
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  #753  
Old 09-22-2009, 11:31 AM
DaveMac-MS DaveMac-MS is offline
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Thanks for wanting to anyway . You have iron willpower. That's one reason I couldn't work for MS or Apple. Where I work we are encouraged to share all we know.
It isn't easy Olley - and we're encouraged to share all we _can_. The difference is, if I tell all now - our competitors get an advantage. That's not good for us or consumers.

Cheers, Dave.
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  #754  
Old 09-22-2009, 11:40 AM
SwiftJudgement SwiftJudgement is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMac-MS View Post
That's not good for us or consumers.

Cheers, Dave.
Not to be a devil's advocate....but it actually would be better for consumers. It would lead to higher quality devices from both sides, allowing the consumer to pick which is best.

But there isn't much meat to this post, I understand why you won't share specific information.
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  #755  
Old 09-22-2009, 03:54 PM
DaveMac-MS DaveMac-MS is offline
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Originally Posted by SwiftJudgement View Post
Not to be a devil's advocate....but it actually would be better for consumers. It would lead to higher quality devices from both sides, allowing the consumer to pick which is best.
Higher quality devices definitely benefits the consumer - totally agree. What I meant was if I tell everything I know and that tips off our competitors, then that actually reduces competition because we become completely disadvantaged.

I argue that consumers actually benefit from having two or more strong competitors in a market, each indepedently innovating and pushing the other(s) forward. You don't get that if one competitor is repeatedly tipping their hand, enabling the other to maintain and grow a lead.

Obviously in the PMP industry, one player does have an enormous lead - my argument is that the consumer does benefit from having a strong #2 - no matter how far behind.

And yes, that applies to operating systems too. Apple, while a long way behind Windows with their OSX product, makes a top notch product and that competition that they offer is good for everyone. If the Windows team always knew what they were going to do in OSX and could remain one step ahead automatically, consumers don't benefit.

Cheers, Dave.
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  #756  
Old 09-22-2009, 03:58 PM
musichound musichound is offline
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Correct me if I'm wrong Dave. Isn't there some type of confidental agreement for employees not to share information that isn't approved or presented to the public yet? I know the company I represent has that policy any anybody that doesn't adhere to it is grounds for termination.
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  #757  
Old 09-22-2009, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by musichound View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong Dave. Isn't there some type of confidental agreement for employees not to share information that isn't approved or presented to the public yet? I know the company I represent has that policy any anybody that doesn't adhere to it is grounds for termination.
Termination and legal action. So I personally understand where Dave-Mac is coming from.
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  #758  
Old 09-22-2009, 04:07 PM
DaveMac-MS DaveMac-MS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwiftJudgement View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong Dave. Isn't there some type of confidental agreement for employees not to share information that isn't approved or presented to the public yet? I know the company I represent has that policy any anybody that doesn't adhere to it is grounds for termination.
Well, yes - of course there's that.

I share what I can, and I work with our PR folks to clear anything that hasn't been spoken about publicly before. Yes, not being careful could cost me my job, but first and foremost it is a respect thing.

We're a fairly sizeable team, and I don't feel like disrespecting all the work they've done in order to leak details prior to when the team is ready for it - details which might also give a competitor an advantage. Just makes no sense...

Cheers, Dave.
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  #759  
Old 09-22-2009, 06:00 PM
musichound musichound is offline
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Thanks Dave, but you quoted SwiftJudgement instead of me when you replied.
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  #760  
Old 09-22-2009, 07:22 PM
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Dave,

Unless this can already be done and I don't know about it...

Would it be possible for Zune Originals to allow people to engrave any image, not just the ones under pattern
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