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  #701  
Old 09-16-2009, 02:36 PM
hc2 hc2 is offline
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A technical question for Dave, see if your tech folks know the answer. Whenever I connect a Zune (a 4GB, a 30GB, and my new HD) up to Vista 32 bit, the "Remove hardware" icon shows up in the task bar tray. With the Ipod Touch I have, it does not.
Does it make a difference whether or not I use that "Remove Hardware Safely" process or can I just disconnect without anything getting corrupted?
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  #702  
Old 09-16-2009, 02:45 PM
mangobot mangobot is offline
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Quick question, Dave: How does the Artist photos/bio stuff work? I was playing around with it (apparently my Zune software doesn't recognize Radiohead for my 'three favorite artists'? lol), but the artist info wouldn't show up for my own tracks. I only got it to work when I directed my zune software to look at the artist page in the Marketplace... but shouldn't this be automatic? Am I supposed to just leave it longer or something?

Thanks!
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  #703  
Old 09-16-2009, 03:17 PM
mwall416 mwall416 is offline
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Originally Posted by mangobot View Post
Quick question, Dave: How does the Artist photos/bio stuff work? I was playing around with it (apparently my Zune software doesn't recognize Radiohead for my 'three favorite artists'? lol), but the artist info wouldn't show up for my own tracks. I only got it to work when I directed my zune software to look at the artist page in the Marketplace... but shouldn't this be automatic? Am I supposed to just leave it longer or something?

Thanks!
Hey mangobot, I ran into the same issue last night. The Zune software works its way through all of your music to find photos/bios/related artists, etc., and it takes awhile depending on the size of your collection. I have over 20,000 tracks in the Zune software right now (my husband and I just combined our music -- still have a bit of pruning to do), so I left my computer on last night so it could work. This morning I synced my Zune again, and the photos/bios/etc. were there for all of the artists I looked at. Pretty cool!
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  #704  
Old 09-16-2009, 03:40 PM
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oppizzippo oppizzippo is offline
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Originally Posted by gljvd View Post
Dave can you give us an idea of how often we will see new apps or if any more are coming this month ?

Also tell them to get on peggle asap !
+1 for Peggle!!!

Cory
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  #705  
Old 09-16-2009, 04:52 PM
Ioncloud9 Ioncloud9 is offline
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2 Questions dave:
1. What version of CE does the zune hd use? Is it the rumored CE7?
2. Are you aware of the screen flicker issue when browsing some people are having with 32s?
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  #706  
Old 09-16-2009, 05:31 PM
lostboykev lostboykev is offline
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Hay Dave!

I don't understand why you have to "cut" certain codecs out of the Zune. I honestly can't believe someone would be dumb enough to say supporting THIS codec would be bad for the Zune. HAVING MORE IS BETTER!!!!

or is there some software/hardware issue that would conflict with THAT codec?
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  #707  
Old 09-16-2009, 05:55 PM
cubanresourceful cubanresourceful is offline
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Originally Posted by lostboykev View Post
Hay Dave!

I don't understand why you have to "cut" certain codecs out of the Zune. I honestly can't believe someone would be dumb enough to say supporting THIS codec would be bad for the Zune. HAVING MORE IS BETTER!!!!

or is there some software/hardware issue that would conflict with THAT codec?
The cost/time to implement it?
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  #708  
Old 09-16-2009, 06:18 PM
DaveMac-MS DaveMac-MS is offline
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Originally Posted by lostboykev View Post
I don't understand why you have to "cut" certain codecs out of the Zune. I honestly can't believe someone would be dumb enough to say supporting THIS codec would be bad for the Zune. HAVING MORE IS BETTER!!!!
Who's "cutting"? This is brand new hardware and a brand new software platform - every codec that went into the product had to be justified and traded off against other would that could be done in it's place.

We went with a consistent and fair spread of codec support for launch. We've added codec support to first gen products in the past, and there's no law to say we can't do it again.

Cheers, Dave.
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  #709  
Old 09-16-2009, 06:31 PM
Olley Olley is offline
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MS doesn't seem to understand that if you please the geeks the geeks will inform the normals about your great product. One good way to please the geeks is to throw in something they would appreciate the most. F(free)LAC for example. "Justified and traded off" despite having room for more you can (no laws saying you can't) add later is the same as cutting. You had a big movie and left film (codecs) on the cutting room floor.
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  #710  
Old 09-16-2009, 09:10 PM
Maxis Maxis is offline
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Originally Posted by Olley View Post
MS doesn't seem to understand that if you please the geeks the geeks will inform the normals about your great product. One good way to please the geeks is to throw in something they would appreciate the most. F(free)LAC for example. "Justified and traded off" despite having room for more you can (no laws saying you can't) add later is the same as cutting. You had a big movie and left film (codecs) on the cutting room floor.
I tried that line of discussion with Dave and company already. His market research is tells him otherwise. While the zuneHD is a great device.. that Cowon S9 is still there lurking in the back of my head whispering "what ifs" to me on a daily basis. If i end up holding one and it turns out to be a true tech device all bets are off ... something is going up for sale.

Oh silly Olley .. Zune are for normals !! not us tech geeks

Cheers
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  #711  
Old 09-16-2009, 09:17 PM
DaveMac-MS DaveMac-MS is offline
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Which feature would you have cut Maxis, in order to support FLAC (assuming that was your desired feature)?

Cheers, Dave.
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  #712  
Old 09-16-2009, 09:59 PM
Maxis Maxis is offline
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Originally Posted by DaveMac-MS View Post
Which feature would you have cut Maxis, in order to support FLAC (assuming that was your desired feature)?

Cheers, Dave.
Whos talking about cutting ?? I dont think it would take a mammoth effort to get Flac on the device would it ? I dont think there would be any royalties paid for it would it ?

My prime feature gripe is still that EQ .. yes theres presets but i would have expected you guys to up your game at this point. You can correct me if im wrong .. but i think the previous zune 30 DAC had the built in (hardware based) presets. The new EQ for the HD appears like a software based implementation. Is that a valid assumption?

Closed off apps support ... hmm .. From the moment i heard closed model and looked at the VERY MEAGRE apps selection i shook my head and moved on. No opportunity for other people to bring other ideas to the table.

Im not a portable gamer (more a hardcore PC fps gamer) .. so xna or whatever it is doesnt affect me in the least.

Your obviously going to disagree with me and you probably think its justifiable due to you working there but i cannot understand how the smaller companies are able to innovate quickly while we have to wait a looooong time for certain features to be included.
Im not advocating random shots in the dark.. but logical ideas and thaughts seem to be a wee bit missing when deciding features.

Example ... build a device with as many options and control (to the point where cost and return becomes a factor) and then make it appear simple and easy to use. Ms has scored on the simple and easy to use while giving token appreciation to the geeks that have to moan and groan about how it lacks this and that.
Someone needs to burn the entire MS research dept as its being depended on way too much for product development.

I understand that the normals are going to compare the zune HD to the class leader in volume and sales. Thats the ipod touch and thats your main market i totally get you on that argument.

However, geeks and audiophiles dont compare ZuneHD to ipod touches ... they find the class leader in terms of tech.. and right now its the S9.

We would have hoped you could have satisfied both segments without leaving one behind too far.

To be vey honest with you i am enjoying the product so far amd i dont forsee myself yelling and screaming and cesar menendez not approving my posts claiming that im trolling (yes those were the days.. ive been with the zune that long). I just hope Zune team doesnt leave us hanging like last time when it comes to adding stuff for the GEEKS..

Cheers and thanks for the ZuneHD


Maxis
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  #713  
Old 09-16-2009, 10:11 PM
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medion medion is offline
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Quote:
Honestly DaveMac-MS, why cant/wont MS support FOSS codecs when other companies do? (hell even most chinese generic cheapo players support ogg and flac)
Ashen, I can field this one. Companies like Apple and Microsoft get more money from the service than they do from the hardware. Due to this, they need a format that can be readily used by that service, while still offering the DRM that the RIAA wants. Believe it or not, it does take time to implement codecs, and FLAC just isn't as wideley used as AAC or MP3. WMA is a no brainer, of course, since that's the main codec used for MS's download service.

Those cheap players have to make their margins on the hardware. Free open sourced codecs are great, because there's no royalties to pay. If you build in support for WMA or AAC, you have to pay MS or Apple a royalty fee. So, those cheaper DAPs use cheaper materials and cheaper labor, as well as royalty free codecs, to help boost the profit margin on the player itself.
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  #714  
Old 09-16-2009, 10:15 PM
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fmwyso fmwyso is offline
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I just want to voice my opinion that I also believe flac/ogg is a must considering I have many oggs in my music folder and I would hate to have to downgrade my audio files just because my media player didn't take the time to support them.

Also, I don't think microsoft is a company that actually takes away other things in replace for new ones. Didn't vista have like 1gig of ram used at all times, isn't that sort of proof in regards to how little Microsoft actually replaces?
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  #715  
Old 09-16-2009, 10:17 PM
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Hi Dave,
Very happy to have an MS rep on these forums...shows a lot of trust from MS and patience from you!

The main selling feature of your device to me is the marketplace (I'm still shocked that most Americans don't seem interested in this model). The tight integration you guys have made with it and the Zune HD seems to be absolutely stunning. I also hope you guys make sure to copy Apple and do some commercials ala the iphone showcasing these features...(it's incredible they make such a big deal out of c&p!!!!)

Questions:
1. As a potential Canadian Zune HD customer, can you ask your colleagues what happened with the previous generation Zune and the promise that marketplace was to come to Canada last year (obviously it didn't happen).
2. If I pick up a Zune HD now in the US and bring it to Canada, since marketplace doesn't work, will it still search marketplace and get the artist data of the albums/artists I put on the device myself or will I be left with a lot of "ugly blanks"?

I would obviously like to know what will happen in Canada in the future but this is something you probably cannot comment on.

Thanks so much

LIP
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  #716  
Old 09-16-2009, 10:45 PM
lip lip is offline
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Originally Posted by fmwyso View Post
I just want to voice my opinion that I also believe flac/ogg is a must considering I have many oggs in my music folder and I would hate to have to downgrade my audio files just because my media player didn't take the time to support them.

Also, I don't think microsoft is a company that actually takes away other things in replace for new ones. Didn't vista have like 1gig of ram used at all times, isn't that sort of proof in regards to how little Microsoft actually replaces?
Obviously MS could support ogg and many other formats if it thought there was something to be gained ($$$). The absolutely tiny, yes TINY, percentage of people out there using anything other than MP3 makes it the main option for them and of course their own formats.

I'm more puzzled at the lack of a big apps store from the get go. This seems like a total afterthought. To me it seems that they were relying on the Windows Mobile group to take care of this and it just didnt get done (mobile 7) yet...probably makes sense what they are doing as an interim step until the mobile group gets their act together (that group should be fired for their total f*up of their business and loss of market share)...

LIP
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  #717  
Old 09-16-2009, 10:59 PM
TwystedMonkey TwystedMonkey is offline
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If I remember correctly today we might get some info about an upcoming international release.....?
I could have just been reading what I wanted but yeah.
Any info your allowed to release Dave would be much appreciated.
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  #718  
Old 09-16-2009, 11:01 PM
d_headshot d_headshot is offline
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Originally Posted by DaveMac-MS View Post
Nothing burned. Probably more people do consume content in FLAC vs. WMA Lossless, but of course we're going to support our own high fidelity (and royalty free) codec before others. If the data is there to support adding features, then that carries a lot of weight with our product planners.
Free Lossless Audio Codec IS "royalty free" lol.
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  #719  
Old 09-16-2009, 11:01 PM
mangobot mangobot is offline
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I agree. I'd like to see flac and all, but honestly, I hardly ever use it. I'd rather see Divx/xvid support (don't really understand how it didn't make it yet), because I'm sure lots of people use it. I'd also love to see .avi and .mkv, but somehow I doubt that'll ever happen .

I wasn't all too impressed by the app store... and from what I hear, I may not be for a while. Facebook and Twitter apps? Why can't we feature email apps or something that I actually might use? (lol) Though still, I maintain that the browser should be a priority; it's pretty streamlined, but tends to be a bit eccentric in it's rendering, and has nearly no features that I consider necessary to function. I can't even install certificates on it to access school websites, which makes it a bit of a hassle. Another thing I found very strange was that I couldn't change the names of bookmarks (maybe I'm just screwing it up), but sometimes I really wished I could. Of course, tabs are nice, along with some sort of Silverlight support or something.

Still like the Zune HD a lot, but the browser and having to reencode ALL OF MY VIDEOS is kind of annoying. Kind of. A lot. But I do appreciate all your hard work, Dave... it made my iphone-loving friends jealous
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  #720  
Old 09-16-2009, 11:07 PM
Olley Olley is offline
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I guess after all the dust has settled that MS is still the MS I knew as a kid. The Zune HD is nice enough to be using some of the latest tech. Well done. It only took them a year after Iriver and Cowon were using an OLED screen the same size to use one in a Zune. It only took them a few (OK, when did Rhapsody and related subscription sources start?) years to offer a subscription model for music downloads after others came up with that idea . It only took them a year after Apple's genius feature to add their DJ feature, which of course are both designed to expose us to more music in the hopes we'll buy it. They are only two.5 years behind coming up with a dedicated touchscreen MP3 playing device.

My point? They are still following. I like the UI on the Zune HD, but behind that we have features dumbed down for the masses when they could have both appealed to the masses AND appealed to the audiophiles, geeks, and ABI members. That would have been cutting edge, risky, and gotten this web site to stand and applause. Yes, the Zune HD will meet their target numbers. I have no doubt. They just should have aimed higher. Why be a follower when you have the talent to be a leader?
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