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  #21  
Old 07-14-2009, 06:51 AM
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The DarkSide The DarkSide is offline
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All the players mentioned have flaws, yes. But only a fool will pay $100 more for a player that has less features, in this economy, at this time. Sony is charging more simply because they need money, not because the player has all the latest and most expensive components. The player is nice, but it's not $100 nicer than the other offerings by other companies.

They plan on doing the same w/the upcoming PSP go, and stated that they plan to charge $250 because it's a premium player, and it warrants the high price. Translated = they're charging a high price because they feel they can. The Same w/the X1000 series.

I'll be buying it on sale in Sept.
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  #22  
Old 07-14-2009, 07:59 AM
Elandal Elandal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The DarkSide
All the players mentioned have flaws, yes. But only a fool will pay $100 more for a player that has less features...
I think is really subjective... Less features? S-Master digital amplifier, noise canceling, Wi-Fi (that even if not so great is nice for the YouTube feature), great phones... And idem for the drag&drop video thing, really subjective, i continue to think that these screens are too small to view something well and especially for long time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The DarkSide
They plan on doing the same w/the upcoming PSP go, and stated that they plan to charge $250 because it's a premium player, and it warrants the high price.
Infact is better to wait the PSP 2 (rumors around of a quad core inside...)

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Originally Posted by The DarkSide
I'll be buying it on sale in Sept.
Just out of curiosity, since all these critics against Sony and just owning an S9, why you want to buy it? Is at the end Sony like the Borg? "Resistance is futile..."
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  #23  
Old 07-14-2009, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Elandal View Post
Ok for Apple but, ehm... are you dreaming? iRiver, Creative, Archos... gapless?!? Where on earth? Oh sure, maybe Rockboxing where possible someone of their old player or maybe some really old player (like Rio Karma)... Can I put also Samsung in the category of cheapo unbranded chinese players? And Cowon? They never maded gapless players and only with the recent firmware the S9 has got gapless... and anyway only on lossless formats. So?
Certainly the Iriver H100 with stock firmware I've got here is capable of gapless playback of MP3s. Plus my Rockboxed 5th gen Ipod Video is capable of gapless playback again with MP3s.

What I don't understand is how come the 'holy grail' of gapless playback is such a problem for recent DAPs? Apple managed to achieve gapless playback of MP3s 3-4 years ago on all Ipods with a firmware upgrade. Microsoft Zune also achieves gapless playback as well.

Winamp, WMP, Itunes, etc. on a PC all play music without gaps perfectly. Yes the old Rios are capable of gapless playback as well.

It seems a lot of people are concerned about the sound quality, but are happy to have half second gaps between tracks on live albums, DJ mixs, concept albums etc. Pink Floyd, Ministry of Sound, etc, never intended the music to be listened to with gaps in it. I certainly hate the gaps, gapless play to me is as important as the sound quality.

If the Samsung can't do gapless playback then yes it is defective and does not achieve the required standard.

As I mentioned in another thread. Would anyone put up with a DVD or Blu-ray player which does a blank screen for half a second between chapters when playing a movie? No of course they wouldn't. I don't see why we should have to put with it for DAPs.
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  #24  
Old 07-14-2009, 10:38 AM
Olley Olley is offline
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As hard as it is for many newbees on this forum to understand what gapless is, and why anyone would want it, imagine being from another planet (Korea) and trying to grasp the concept. It wouldn't surprise me that gapless was simply something that never got on the ToDo list when developement started for many Korean MP3 players. For all I know there may not even be a Korean word for it. Google translate doesn't have one.
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  #25  
Old 07-14-2009, 03:44 PM
h1a8 h1a8 is offline
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Originally Posted by Elandal View Post
I think is really subjective... Less features? S-Master digital amplifier, noise canceling, Wi-Fi (that even if not so great is nice for the YouTube feature), great phones... And idem for the drag&drop video thing, really subjective, i continue to think that these screens are too small to view something well and especially for long time.
Sony should go to jail false advertising a S-Master digital amplifier when this player's volume is low as heck. Also it doesn't sound better than the Sony s618. The phones are only great for those who planned on using the stock headphones on matter what. Other than that I can name a few reletively cheap IEM's that sound better or no worse. And many can indeed watch full movies on these players without no problem and with complete joy.



Quote:
Just out of curiosity, since all these critics against Sony and just owning an S9, why you want to buy it? Is at the end Sony like the Borg? "Resistance is futile..."
You are correct Resistance was futile for me that is why I bought it. But quickly I noticed that it's SQ is no better than the s618 (just a tad bit different). It is microscopically more clear due to bass roll off. But the volume issue was bad and I quickly returned it and ordered a 16gb p3 (just for a new change as I tried cowon many times before) for $170 plus tax. This is like paying me $130 to exchange to a probably better player with more useful features (for me).
Personally, as long as I use premium bass heavy IEM's (like JVC victor fx500) then my ipod touch 2g sounds just as good.
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  #26  
Old 07-14-2009, 05:15 PM
ajai_dev ajai_dev is offline
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Well what ever the player cost be the performance of this in bass was quite good both with my EX85's and the next day when i tried them with my friends M8's my god it was bass head heaven :>

Wanted to clarify the bass is still a bit un shaped but better than A729. I would wait for the Zune HD instead.
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  #27  
Old 07-14-2009, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elandal View Post
Just out of curiosity, since all these critics against Sony and just owning an S9, why you want to buy it? Is at the end Sony like the Borg? "Resistance is futile..."
Just so I can have the personal satisfaction of trying it out. I've owned a Sony S618 (died on me), A829 (sold), and a S639 (sold - I miss it so, but I need more memory, 32gb and it's PERFECT).

Sony players sound fantastic, yes, but they aren't the "end all & be all" that some claim.
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  #28  
Old 07-14-2009, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muka View Post
Certainly the Iriver H100 with stock firmware I've got here is capable of gapless playback of MP3s.
Wow, really? This is the first time I heard that any iRiver is gapless.
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  #29  
Old 07-15-2009, 06:59 AM
Elandal Elandal is offline
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Originally Posted by h1a8 View Post
Sony should go to jail false advertising a S-Master digital amplifier when this player's volume is low as heck
Low volume?!? Ears problem or you have applied a very low replaygain volume to the tracks? I have it at level 22 (max 30) and is just really loud...

@Muka
I can agree with you that is now really time that all these companies start to include gapless out of the box but this cannot justify to not buy a player when the others brands at the end do the same. Just encode the album in one single file and problem solved. Even iTunes with certain albums gives you also a single file version just for that...
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  #30  
Old 07-15-2009, 08:11 AM
thoots thoots is offline
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Well, it's all about features any one of us in particular want in a player.

For me, I couldn't give one lousy rat's banana about gapless playback. Utterly, absolutely couldn't care in the slightest.

In contrast, there are other qualities and capabilities that the X series has that make it well worth my money, and that's why I just picked up the 32-gig version. It's still not "perfect" in every way, but it meets my needs better than anything else I'm aware of.
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  #31  
Old 07-15-2009, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elandal View Post
@Muka
I can agree with you that is now really time that all these companies start to include gapless out of the box but this cannot justify to not buy a player when the others brands at the end do the same. Just encode the album in one single file and problem solved. Even iTunes with certain albums gives you also a single file version just for that...
Thing is the Sony X can't even play AAC without having one second gaps between continuous mix tracks, and this format does have a gapless option which the X ignores.

I know there is the option of merging the tracks into one big file, but often I will like to skip to a particular track.

I just wont buy players which can't play music as the artist, recording engineer or DJ intended. BTW I've since returned and got a refund on my Sony X 1000 for this reason, and gone back to using my Iriver H100 and Rockboxed 5G Ipod Video. Even my Nokia phone can play gapless AAC and MP3 with the FOSS FolderPlay application.
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  #32  
Old 07-15-2009, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by thoots View Post
Well, it's all about features any one of us in particular want in a player.

For me, I couldn't give one lousy rat's banana about gapless playback. Utterly, absolutely couldn't care in the slightest.

In contrast, there are other qualities and capabilities that the X series has that make it well worth my money, and that's why I just picked up the 32-gig version. It's still not "perfect" in every way, but it meets my needs better than anything else I'm aware of.
Well the sound quality is very good on the X, the FM radio, screen and UI are good. But for me it's flaws outweigh the good and its since been returned to where I purchased it from.

Sony put WLAN on the player and then totally let it down with a lousy WAP browser, and a very broken podcast feature. All of which my Nokia mobile phone can do much better.

Movie playback feature is not relevant, because I could never watch movies on a 3 inch screen.
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  #33  
Old 07-15-2009, 09:57 AM
Dreamnine Dreamnine is offline
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Originally Posted by Muka View Post
Well the sound quality is very good on the X, the FM radio, screen and UI are good. But for me it's flaws outweigh the good and its since been returned to where I purchased it from.

Sony put WLAN on the player and then totally let it down with a lousy WAP browser, and a very broken podcast feature. All of which my Nokia mobile phone can do much better.

Movie playback feature is not relevant, because I could never watch movies on a 3 inch screen.
I'm with you on that. It's OK for a short time then my eyes hurt.
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  #34  
Old 07-15-2009, 10:08 AM
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Wow, really? This is the first time I heard that any iRiver is gapless.
Well there is a very minimal gap with the H100, and one has to listen hard for it. Unlike the half to one second gap that the X gives. With Rockbox the H100 is completely gapless.

I know I'm going on a bit on this subject now, but it was my disappointment of the X 1000 which got me going on this subject. I still don't understand how some manufacturers have failed make DAPs capable of gapless playback for so long. It costs them nothing to achieve perfect gapless playback, as it's all done by the software/firmware.
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  #35  
Old 07-15-2009, 11:31 AM
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what are you guys talking about.

Sony items/products have always been pricier, especially their vaio laptops, but this comes with a benefit of better Built Quality, enuf said.

Decide for urself if the extra cash you spent is worth the extra built quality.
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  #36  
Old 07-15-2009, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muka View Post
Well there is a very minimal gap with the H100, and one has to listen hard for it. Unlike the half to one second gap that the X gives. With Rockbox the H100 is completely gapless.
Ah ok, I thought so. Too bad "almost gapless" isn't gapless... same as the Cowon S9 (with lossy codecs).
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  #37  
Old 07-15-2009, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muscular View Post
what are you guys talking about.

Sony items/products have always been pricier, especially their vaio laptops, but this comes with a benefit of better Built Quality, enuf said.

Decide for urself if the extra cash you spent is worth the extra built quality.
I don't think anyone has criticised the X 1000 for build quality. I think it's a beautiful well constructed player. However IMO it is very lacking and feels very unfinished in certain areas of software/firmware. Namely the browser and podcast features. Also I have to admit 'Media Manager for WALKMAN' is a pretty abysmal application as well, very reminiscent of the infamous SonicStage.

For someone who wants a great looking and sounding player, who don't care about gapless playback or other features its OK.

FYI I have a VAIO Z series laptop myself, it's a great computer. One of the best laptops I've ever had.
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  #38  
Old 07-15-2009, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by dfkt View Post
Ah ok, I thought so. Too bad "almost gapless" isn't gapless... same as the Cowon S9 (with lossy codecs).
Put it this way, one has to listen hard for the gaps. They're not blatantly obvious 1 second gaps. With Rockbox there is no audible gaps at all with lossy codecs like MP3 or OGG/Vorbis.
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  #39  
Old 07-15-2009, 12:27 PM
Dreamnine Dreamnine is offline
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I don't think anyone is having a go at Sony per se. in this thread; it's just that the X series is way overpriced for what you get.
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  #40  
Old 07-15-2009, 03:54 PM
h1a8 h1a8 is offline
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Originally Posted by Elandal View Post
Low volume?!? Ears problem or you have applied a very low replaygain volume to the tracks? I have it at level 22 (max 30) and is just really loud...
No! I don't mean low in general. It is loud enough to satisfy listening with some of my headphones (at a higher than normal volume level though). The problem is that this player's volume is indeed lower than nearly all other players while boasting that it has a high tech amp. Also the volume is too low for car stereos and medium impedence phones (64-80ohm).
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