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Old 11-15-2006, 01:08 PM
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Default Replace Hard Drive With Larger Capacity Drive

Hail ZVM owners......... has anyone researched and/or tried if we are able to replace the 30Gig drive with a 60Gig drive of the same type? I see that Hitachi has come out with their Travelstar C4K60 60Gig Slim hard drives... the same models as the 30Gig ones that are in our ZVMs. Tks in advance..
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Old 11-15-2006, 03:03 PM
Lawrence Lawrence is offline
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how would you get the zen OS in the new hard drive?
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Old 11-15-2006, 07:18 PM
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the firmware isnt stored on the ROM chip inside think. but i dont think itl work
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Old 11-16-2006, 08:29 AM
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Hmm good questions...

OS Xfer.. I am a computer forensic's tech, so I have some secret squiril tools which I can 'duplicate' a hard drive sector to sector... so in theory, I could make an 'image' of the hard drive and 'restore' it later..The question would be after that, can the ZEN OS detect the larger hard drive? Only other thing I could think of, would be to grab someones ZEN 60Gig install CD and see if that would work...

Keep the brain juices flowing... any other thoughts?
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Old 11-16-2006, 01:47 PM
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Nope, the forensic's software didnt work .. but i'll keep trying..
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Old 11-17-2006, 09:02 PM
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Are you saying that putting a 60GB drive in a ZVM didn't work at all? That wouldn't be good!

The OS (aka the Firmware) resides on the hard drive. A bootloader plus a basic BIOS menu (for lack of better term) resides in ROM.

In theory, if you put a new drive in the ZVM and try to turn it on, it should boot straight to the Recovery Mode menu. From there, you'd have to format the drive, then select "Reload Firmware".

In my experience doing a drive swap with a Nomad Jukebox Zen Xtra, the firmware noted the larger size of the new drive without any issues. I don't see why the ZVM's firmware wouldn't be size-agnostic as well.
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Old 11-25-2006, 01:15 AM
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It's kool that you bring this up...Unfortunately, the store I purchased my Zen at was only carrying the 30gb, so I've been looking into some hdd that would fit these dimensions. It doesnt have to recognize any specific kind, does it?
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Old 11-25-2006, 10:28 AM
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if you go to removable disk mode and then select properties for the removable disk (should be F), it tells you a bunch of stuff about the hard drive.
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Old 11-25-2006, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iCeD00D
Nope, the forensic's software didnt work .. but i'll keep trying..

Hmm.. what do you mean "it didnt work"?

Did it not detect anything on the original hdd? or is there an OS on the HDD (and not on any other chip in the player?) adn the s/w cant copy it? :?


BTW this is one cool idea.. i'm getting a 120gb USB HDD.. it'd be so cool if i could put that into my ZVM
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Old 11-26-2006, 01:31 AM
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zune people on zune scene have reported being able to add an 80 and 60 gb hdd by taking of the uhh cover or plates orsomething, they took something off and it worked.
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Old 11-26-2006, 02:08 PM
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Well after taking the unit apart, my Zen has a Hitachi Travelstar C6k60 Slim Hard drive. I looked up the specs on Hitachi's web site and the only difference with this and the 60GB unit is the Height and Weight....The 30GB is 5.0mm where as the 60GB is 8.0mm .... and the weight is 46g for the 30GB and 57g for the 60GB.... I dont think the weight will be a problem but the 3.0mm difference in height might.... The only option i can see with the height is that the drive does have some rubber shock mount peices on the hard drive to help with keeping the hard drive in place... I think if I dont add those back on, then it would probally fit.... I'll let you know when i get the drive....

As for the forensic's software, I did not have the proper adapter to hook the hard drive up to so the software did not detect the hard drive even when i tried via a USB port.... Good news is that the forensic's company is going to send me their new 'zif' hard drive adapter so i can try my theory out.... Reason I want to capture the hard drive is so i can xfer all my music and files over to the 60GB once i get it......I've done this with desktop hard drives so i know its possible..... I'll keep you up to date once i try it...
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Old 11-30-2006, 04:45 AM
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Sounds great, your plan. Hope it works, because soon I think I am going to need an upgrade of the HDD too (got 40GB of music and you don't how many videoclips)
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Old 11-30-2006, 02:32 PM
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ThaDemon -- LOL no problem man..... you can be my first 'customer' :P
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Old 11-30-2006, 02:41 PM
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Update -----

The forensic's company was more then happy to send me a FREE ZIF adapter yesterday!!!! So of course I decided to use it today and have some interesting findings.....

After taking apart my Zen ( AGAIN ), I installed the hard drive on the adapter and fired up the software. WOOT! I was able to see the hard drive! ... BUT (there's always a but) I was not able to see any of the files on the hard drive. bummer ... the good news is that the software does detect 'something' that is taking up hard drive space but just does not requenize (sp) the files in the format they are in..... Leave it to creative....

Removable Drive
Since I was not able to see the files, I wondered if I can see the files if i formated a 1GB partition and put the files on there. So I did this 2 ways... One through the Creative software and the other through windows explorer...partitioned the drive (1GB) and then threw some files on it. Windows saw the drive just fine with the files in there, but again the forensic's software did not see the 2nd 1GB partition with the files on it. Again, it did detect that there was 'something' there but just could not decypher the information.

So at the end of my testing today I did come up with a couple of things.... Seems that the forensic's software does not detect the creative's "OS" and files that are on the hard drive.... BUT it did detect that there was data on the drive.... So I still think you can 'image' the drive onto a larger one and it will work... Still waiting on my 60GB to show up... Tomarrow I will contact the software company and ask them (from a forensic's point of view of course) if there is any way to 'read' the data since it does pose a security risk here on base (having a 30GB USB hard drive is not a good thing :P )..... I'll let you know once I get a reply what they say...... Wish the drive would show up!!!
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Old 11-30-2006, 03:26 PM
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So you actually need to copy the "image" from your standard 30GB to the 60GB disk and it should fire up right?
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Old 11-30-2006, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaDemon
So you actually need to copy the "image" from your standard 30GB to the 60GB disk and it should fire up right?
You dont need to ... but if your like me and you've compiled your music and video's from different sources (some of which I dont have anymore ) then taking the exact image from a 30GB to a 60GB would save huge amounts of time.... and in theory the ZEN SHOULD see the drive without a problem.. if not, i'll have an EXTRA 60GB laying around for those who need a replacement for their 60GB ZEN...... ... But I have a good feeling it will work...
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Old 11-30-2006, 10:04 PM
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It sounds like there are two things going on: One, the ZVM saves all of its files in a database structure, which will make it appear as one large file to anything else trying to read the disk. Additionally, your removable partition isn't actually a real partition - it's a block of space set aside for MSC use. To the Creative OS, it is simply what's known as a hardfile - a special file that internally simulates a hard drive partition. Within that file, it can be formatted as a FAT32 partition, and data can be saved within that structure just as any other removable drive, but it is all still physically one large file on the actual hard drive.

The second thing going on is that your forensic software does not recognize the ZVM's filesystem.

As for copying drive images, I have a feeling it won't work. If the ZVM's OS is anything like any other OS, the first few tracks contain information about the hard drive, including geometry. It may also include pointers to the ZVM's database file if the ZVM uses such a structure - and if the file shows up on another hard drive and is so much as even a cylinder off, the OS won't be able to find it.

Still, it's worth a try, as long as you don't try writing to the older drive.
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Old 12-01-2006, 09:34 AM
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Wow .... you bring up some good points........I'll have to do some research on the hard drive pointers but good call.......The only good thing about this software is that it does the copying bit-by-bit but your right, it may have some information about the hard drive on there......I wrote to the forensic company today asking if they knew of a solution even though it still poses a threat to us here at work.... even more now that i found out about putting Linux on the ZEN!!! Thanks for your inputs. Oh yeah, with this forensics software I use a blocking device that does not allow anything to be written to the source disk...VERY important in computer forensics ....back to testing....
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Old 12-01-2006, 08:34 PM
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If I may ask, what is this "threat" you keep referring to?
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Old 12-03-2006, 01:51 PM
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sure.....lets just say that ppl have been known to bring these type of players into some 'secure' spaces if you know what i mean...... about all I can say really.......
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