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  #1  
Old 01-03-2009, 05:53 PM
geoken geoken is offline
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Default Tried WMP 12. Definately getting rid of Zune now

So I've been playing around with WMP 12 on Win 7 a bit and a simply can't live with the Zune software anymore. Giving up my beloved rating based system for managing music was a big change for me but I lived with it because the Zune was a great piece of hardware. I accepted the fact that 90% of the video on my system was completely invisible to the Zune software. But after playing with WMP 12 I realized how much better WMP is.

It's said that MS went out of their way to push the Zune software. It's doubly annoying when the only logical reason for pushing the software (tying you to the Zune marketplace) still isn't supported in Canada.

If I could either sync with WMP or purchase music and get a subscription from the marketplace I'd probably still be a happy owner.

Too bad really because the hardware is the best I've used.
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  #2  
Old 01-03-2009, 08:30 PM
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What is it that you like so much about WMP12 over the Zune aside from videos being more visible in WMP12? and do you like WMP12 more than WMP11? What are the improvements that you like?
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  #3  
Old 01-04-2009, 12:08 AM
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I'd go post the concern on the zune forums.

Also, have you tried converting your videos? If not try Free Zune Converter.
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  #4  
Old 01-04-2009, 11:11 AM
geoken geoken is offline
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Things I like about WMP 12.

Ratings. As I mentioned before the rating system was probably the main way I managed my music. The 2 star system isn't enough to do this with.

Internet Radio. WMP 12 has a library entry for radio. I've always maintained a second audio player for radio streams (I currently use Songbird as my Shoutcast player). If the final version supports radio it will be awsome.

Searching. I hate the way Zune searches. In-line search is the way to go. I don`t want the default search option to be an advanced search. When I type in an artist name I want to see his songs, I don`t want to arrive at a landing screen which requires extra interaction to get what I need. Extra points lost for mixing in marketplace content into the results.

I already convert some videos using Microsoft Expression Encoder, but I like the fact that WMP can let me view my whole library. It can play videos I`ve encoded for my Zune as well as videos I`ve encoded for my 360.

I also like WMP's system integration. It has a proper mini-mode, it has a taskbar toolbar (ie. you can control the player without having to un-minimize it)

I'm not really posting this as a concern per se, as I realize my opinions aren't really going to have any effect on anything. This is more of a cathartic release culminating from the frustration I feel from having, what I consider, the perfect piece of hardware only to be limited by the software. I'd usually write that off as par for the course if it wasn't for the fact that the company making the hardware already had an incredible piece of software which seems to be intentionally blocked.
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Old 01-04-2009, 11:39 AM
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you do realize that you don't have to use your Zune software as your personal media player right? All the stuff you mentioned has nothing to do with the Zune itself...i use the Zune software to load media to my zune and that's it's only use. I use media monkey or WMP to play music on the computer. I don't get the problem here...
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  #6  
Old 01-04-2009, 01:39 PM
geoken geoken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sumx4182 View Post
you do realize that you don't have to use your Zune software as your personal media player right? All the stuff you mentioned has nothing to do with the Zune itself...i use the Zune software to load media to my zune and that's it's only use. I use media monkey or WMP to play music on the computer. I don't get the problem here...
Using multiple apps to manage media is cumbersome. I'd much rather drag a playlist from WMP on to my player and be done with it. The effort required to keep the two libraries in sync over rules the benefits the hardware gives me.
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  #7  
Old 01-04-2009, 01:57 PM
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you don't have to keep two libraries in sync. The Zune software and most others can be set to automatically update when they are opened by scanning preset folders. It's really dumb to give up a player that you say you like because you don't like the software when the solution is really easy. It's not cumbersome...there's very little "effort"...I can't say that I see why it's a big deal. Oh well...i mean, what do you spend more time with...the player or the software? When you run the software, it's to load the player or put on random and play songs...not much interaction. But when you're away from the computer, the player is all you got. I'd rather have a good player and put up with software that is lacking than to be able to use whatever software I want and have a player that's lacking. Plus, at some point, WMP could be supported. Not saying it will happen or likely, but possible. Or it's possible that the Zune software as it develops will take on more WMP-like qualities. I mean, the evolution of the software has been huge so far and there's no evidence that it won't continue that way.
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  #8  
Old 01-04-2009, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sumx4182 View Post
It's really dumb to give up a player that you say you like because you don't like the software when the solution is really easy.
I think its really "dumb" to attack someone's persona preference. It is a very legitimate reason to give up a player due to the software needed. Easy and preference are not the same thing. We can just call a troll a troll here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumx4182 View Post
Plus, at some point, WMP could be supported. Not saying it will happen or likely, but possible. Or it's possible that the Zune software as it develops will take on more WMP-like qualities. I mean, the evolution of the software has been huge so far and there's no evidence that it won't continue that way.
It wont be supported. Evidence from speaking with the WMP dev team says that these are meant to be targeted at two entirely differnt types of users.
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  #9  
Old 01-04-2009, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnzoTen View Post
I think its really "dumb" to attack someone's persona preference. It is a very legitimate reason to give up a player due to the software needed. Easy and preference are not the same thing. We can just call a troll a troll here.


It wont be supported. Evidence from speaking with the WMP dev team says that these are meant to be targeted at two entirely differnt types of users.
I'm not trying to troll at all. I'm not calling him dumb, i'm calling the situation dumb. Giving up a player that he, by all accounts, enjoys except he doesn't like the software as a media player. Ok, that's fine, I understand it cause I dont like it much as a media player either. But I use another media player and only use the software to sync. I don't get why it's a good issue. He hasn't given one reason why it's an issue other than that it's too much effort. I clearly explained that it's no effort since the zune software will update it's library automatically and will pop up when the zune is connected. There's almost no effort involved actually. I'm not trolling, in fact, it's quite the opposite, my posts have foresight and thought in them...

And it may not be officially supported...but i never underestimate the power of users. If the Zune had the market share of the iPod and the fan base, you can bet that it would be hacked to use WMP just as the iPods have been jailbroken and hacked all to hell. It's do-able IMHO.
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  #10  
Old 01-04-2009, 09:10 PM
jkj1962 jkj1962 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnzoTen View Post
It is a very legitimate reason to give up a player due to the software needed.
I don't know, Enzo. It's a reason, a personal preference as you say, that obviously some would not agree with. It's his decision, but I personally think that if geoken is basing that decision to give up the Zune on there being another media player that is better than the Zune software, he is a bit late. And I wonder what geoken's opinion would be if he were comparing that WMP12 beta to a beta of Zune 4.0.
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  #11  
Old 01-04-2009, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jkj1962 View Post
I don't know, Enzo. It's a reason, a personal preference as you say, that obviously some would not agree with. It's his decision, but I personally think that if geoken is basing that decision to give up the Zune on there being another media player that is better than the Zune software, he is a bit late. And I wonder what geoken's opinion would be if he were comparing that WMP12 beta to a beta of Zune 4.0.
yea, the updates are fast and furious and the software is getting better and better...and again, i think it better to have a good piece of hardware and then find a media player that is to your liking and have the best of both worlds than give up the Zune for a player that uses WMP and end up with a player thats not as good. Cutting off the nose to spite the face, methinks.
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  #12  
Old 01-04-2009, 11:55 PM
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Still, not everyone likes the Zune software, and that can be a deal killer. If this were itunes the op were discussing most of you would be shaking your heads in agreement.

Personally, I don't like the Zune software, but I deal w/it. I'd rather sync w/another program, but that's never gonna' happen. Not w/the Zune's that is. And the software can be a real deal breaker for most, as many of you have returned an ipod just cause you thought that itunes sucked (which I love BTW).

Return the player IMO, there's still a HUGE assortment of players to choose from, and a whole new batch is on the way in mid Jan. ENJOY!!!
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  #13  
Old 01-05-2009, 10:11 AM
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Still, not everyone likes the Zune software, and that can be a deal killer. If this were itunes the op were discussing most of you would be shaking your heads in agreement.

Personally, I don't like the Zune software, but I deal w/it. I'd rather sync w/another program, but that's never gonna' happen. Not w/the Zune's that is. And the software can be a real deal breaker for most, as many of you have returned an ipod just cause you thought that itunes sucked (which I love BTW).

Return the player IMO, there's still a HUGE assortment of players to choose from, and a whole new batch is on the way in mid Jan. ENJOY!!!
Actually, the exact same could be said for Itunes. I don't like it as a media player. If i owned an Ipod, I would sync with Itunes and use MM or WMP as my media player. But to each his own I guess. I just don't find it a big deal to have two different programs.
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  #14  
Old 01-05-2009, 02:07 PM
geoken geoken is offline
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I guess I'll go into some more detail on my typical music usage.

About once a week, sometimes twice, I'll load up some cash into my paypal account and hit up some of the sites I grab music from (Drum and Bass Arena, Hospital, Juno). I then listen to my new tracks (recently imported) and start rating them. Typically, a track will never leave the recently imported list without getting a rating. As I get bored of tracks I'll move them down to 4 or 3 stars. I usually listen to my 4 or 5 star tracks but sometimes I throw in the 3 stars.

My syncing is based entirely on playlists and star rating. I can count the times on my hand were I've actually sync'd an album (95% of my library is singles and I usually don't even have the b-side).

Star rating is obviously impossible to transfer to Zune unless I exported all tracks to folders based and even then I don't know how I could get zune to create playlists based on the files physical location.

Playlists are a little easier. My to options are saving all the WPL's as m3u's or using an app to convert the WPL's to ZPL's (the ZPL format itself is pretty frustrating since it's identical to the WPL with the exception of a header tag). Both options require an extra step and don't use my native playlists.

sumx, you probably don't have an issue with this because m3u is MM's native playlist format so as long as it stores them in a folder that Zune watches the playlists will be available in Zune. If the Zune would recognize WPL's it would make stuff a lot easier for me. It seems pretty stange that Zune would be able to work with m3u's but ignore WPL's which, apart from being a Microsoft format, are almost identical to a ZPL.


jkj1962, is there a beta of the Zune 4 software (or a review of it if the beta is closed/non-public)? I definately don't have a problem holding out if I knew something promising was on the horizon.


I guess in the end it comes down to the fact that I frequently go weeks between syncs and this is something completely unusual to me. I usually don't sync the Zune untill I have a good 9 or 10 songs that I'm currently listening to (on my computer) which aren't on my player. I also usually have several songs I'm bored of sitting in my playlists long after I've removed them from the playlist in WMP.

I realize that it wouldn't take ridiculous amounts of time to keep my libraries in sync, but the time it would take isn't worth the benefit. I usually have a player filled with songs I'm bored of while being absent of my current favorites. I choose to deal with that slight nusiance rather than take the time to fix it, but I still want a solution which doesn't have these downsides.
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Old 01-06-2009, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
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jkj1962, is there a beta of the Zune 4 software (or a review of it if the beta is closed/non-public)? I definately don't have a problem holding out if I knew something promising was on the horizon.
I have no idea. I was simply pointing out that you were comparing a beta of WMP to a released version of Zune. IMHO, it's not a fair comparison, since the beta could (and probably will to some extent) change before it's released, and the next version of Zune may well benefit from what is added in WMP.
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Old 01-06-2009, 08:01 PM
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I have no idea. I was simply pointing out that you were comparing a beta of WMP to a released version of Zune. IMHO, it's not a fair comparison, since the beta could (and probably will to some extent) change before it's released, and the next version of Zune may well benefit from what is added in WMP.
I hope it will benefit but I don't really see it. Zune started off as a clone of WMP and actually contained a lot of the features I wish it had (5 star based rating system and item grouping) but they were cut out.

Also, why should I expect a feature regression in WMP beta? There was no feature regression from WMP 11 beta. There was no feature regression in any of the Live apps I just installed?
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  #17  
Old 01-09-2009, 01:43 PM
sk8erboi9305 sk8erboi9305 is offline
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Default windows 7?

my question is how did you get both windows media player 12, and windows 7? i didn't know either of them had been released.

sorry if i'm a bit off topic
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Old 01-09-2009, 07:46 PM
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my question is how did you get both windows media player 12, and windows 7? i didn't know either of them had been released.

sorry if i'm a bit off topic
Beta versions are floating around the net, and some here are beta testers (official).
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Old 01-09-2009, 07:54 PM
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Win7 was released today as a public beta. So now everyone can have an official version, up to the first 2.5 million i think. Just in case there are bugs that blow up some machines they are limited the initial public beta until some of the first reports come back...
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Old 01-12-2009, 10:58 AM
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http://www.microsoft.com/windows/win...-download.aspx

Register, download, install (to a decent computer you aren't using primarily, or a separate HD)
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