android
  #41  
Old 12-26-2008, 12:31 PM
gdawg304 gdawg304 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7
Default

Felt a need to register just to pipe up here, out of frustration...

after months of speculation, and avoiding getting another iPod (after i spilled water on my Classic) due to being largely unimpressed with its mediocre sound quality even compared to my 3 year old Sony (which supported Gapless provided you ripped in ATRAC format)...I finally got an S9 for Christmas

fiddled around with the BBE, was blown away by the sound quality and the number of equaliser settings etc which can be changed...then by the unconverted version of Iron Man which I dragged and dropped onto the unit - it worked well and looked great on the AMOLED screen.

Then I tried to listen to a Global Underground mixed dance album to test it out...I listen to a lot of progressive house and electronic music (probably 50%+ of my music collection...and these are continuous mixes. There's not meant to be a gap and a pause, no matter how small, disrupts the flow of the music. I understand that not everyone is bothered but I fall into the camp that finds this annoying to the point where I cannot enjoy the music and I find myself sitting/walking/listening just waiting for the inevitable jump which will ruin my music. Maybe I have OCD levels of annoyance over this, but it's 2008, digital processing can't have taken a step backwards in the 3 years since I got my Sony, even my Applie iPoo could do it despite the flat sound quality...why is it so hard to include this feature? To me, the most important thing about a player is the ability to enjoy the music as the artist intended (or the DJ doing the mix!) with great sound quality...i don't care about Wi-Fi or document viewing or web browsing, or accelerometer based games - I have a PC and a WinMo Pocket PC...why has Cowon, which produces some of the best sounding players, not got its head around the idea that there are a lot of continuous albums out there, be it dance, classical, prog-rock or any other genre, and that plenty of people would like to hear these continuous albums in continuous form?

And call me stupid but not one review of the S9 which I've seen (including the one on this site, to all you Mods out there ;-) ) mentions the lack or inclusion of gapless.

I was lucky enough to get this player as a gift, and after being highly specific about what I wanted I'd be pretty disappointed to have to send it back. And for the actual audio quality it just blows my old iPod into the weeds. If only I had done more research or waited a little longer

Does anyone have contacts on the inside at Cowon who can push them to update firmware to include gapless? It seems like a relatively simple fix for a player with a "dual core processor".....

I would dearly love to enable gapless playback on this S9 because in every other way it suits me just fine. I guess because I don't read into these things except when buying a new product, I had assumed that all DAPs would be gapless by now...I guess I was wrong...

oops - sorry for length of post!

Advertisement [Remove Advertisement]

  #42  
Old 12-26-2008, 12:40 PM
crazycanuck332 crazycanuck332 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 126
Default

so is it possible for cowon to release a firmware to be able to have gapless such as the s9?

  #43  
Old 12-26-2008, 02:19 PM
gdawg304 gdawg304 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7
Default

well by the sounds of things if Cowon didn't fix gapless for any of their previous players it doesn't seem like they'll do it for this one.

Looks like this one might be winging its way back for a refund if they're not going to fix it...


Last edited by gdawg304; 12-26-2008 at 02:19 PM. Reason: typo

  #44  
Old 12-26-2008, 02:35 PM
schermvlieger schermvlieger is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1
Default

I don't understand why you don't simply rip the whole album into one single mp3 file to prevent gaps. If you're going to listen to the tracks in the original order all the time anyway, why rip the album into separate track files.

Anyway, I do this for those albums where it matters, and I am very happy that there is such a simple solution to this problem, so that I can enjoy all the music on my D2 instead of feeling the need to complain.

  #45  
Old 12-26-2008, 02:53 PM
gdawg304 gdawg304 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7
Default

why complain about other people complaining?

As for ripping a single track - the fact is for me, I ripped all my music when I had a gapless player, so it was all ripped at relatively high bitrate, and with all the tracks separate.
I don't really want to rerip 200+ CDs. Can I merge all the already ripped tracks seamlessly?

In addition, sometimes I will skip to, say, track 5 and listen from there (OK I could scan through, but not the point). The fact some DAPs on the market can handle gapless shows it is possible, so why can't all - especially a flagship product. Will it kill me not to have it? No. Would it be a really nice feature to have on a premium product? Yes.

I'd be happy enough if they said it would support gapless with eg OGG and I could convert all my music (although not sure if it'd lose anything in the process). I'm sure there are ways to get round it, but when it's a premium product that's being paid for, I'd like native support.

To some people gapless isn't an issue. For others, it is - which is why this thread, I suppose, because those of us that are bothered by it would like to discuss it and question why it's not included when DAPs from 2005 (or before) could manage it.

I see no point in WiFi myself, which for some is an essential feature, and I don't care about games, apps or whatever, just playing music and maybe video to a high standard - I have a WinMo pocket PC/phone if i feel a need to email, browse the web or whatever, on the move. But I haven't gone into any "I hate xxx because it has no WiFi" threads and told them to stop complaining because they're bothered about a missing feature that I see no point in. Just my two cents. (well - two pence, being from London)

Still I guess it's true...you can please all of the people some of the time, or you can please some of the people all of the time....we're a fickle bunch, consumers

  #46  
Old 12-26-2008, 03:47 PM
crazycanuck332 crazycanuck332 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 126
Default

but is it possible for a firmware to get gapless?

  #47  
Old 12-26-2008, 04:32 PM
gdawg304 gdawg304 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7
Default

don't see why not, if it's just a case of getting the player to process the tracks to play together..they make a point of saying it has a dual core processor on their blurb, I'm sure it could handle it

but i don't know a lot about file compression lol

  #48  
Old 12-26-2008, 04:53 PM
crazycanuck332 crazycanuck332 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 126
Default

i also heard that cowon doesnt really have a good firmware developer or something like samsung

  #49  
Old 12-27-2008, 02:49 PM
ZEROSKI ZEROSKI is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 23
Default

I suggest a zune gdawg, I seriously think the only way any cowon player is going to get gapless is rockbox, and that could be a while for the s9 due to the processor. The zune is the only dap that I know of that does gapless and sounds close to the s9. I have a touch 2g and although it sounds decent, it just doesn't have the separation and detail of the s9. Zune doesn't have and eq though and of course ipods eq sucks. Or a Japanese sony that still runs atrac is gapless and sounds really good, but sonic stage is a pain and the Japanese models are $$$$$.

  #50  
Old 12-27-2008, 03:02 PM
gdawg304 gdawg304 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7
Default

and if Microsoft ever decide to sell the Zune in the UK (since AFAIK it's N America only), it would be an option, lol

I guess I'll just have to restrict what music I put on the S9 and just not put any of my large number of DJ mix house/prog house albums on it, since the break really disrupts the music.

I just find the lack of gapless to be bizarre - it surely isn't that hard to implement, and unlike the lack of WiFi which some people bemoan, I don't see why it's so hard to fix - all it would take is a firmware update because I'm sure the hardware can handle it.

I tried a Touch 2G in the Apple store with bose earphones and it sounded very mediocre - as did my iPod classic on my Shure SE530s - the S9 sounds superb. It's a toughie, as the other thing in the Touch's favour is the 32GB model - I asked Cowon UK and they said it's now likely to be summer before a 32GB model arrives and it's not actually in the pipeline just yet - I trashed my ipod in August so I was itching for a replacement and Christmas was as good a time to ask for one! With gapless into the equation....well i'd be miffed either way...seamless but mediocre sounding music, or great sounding music with a disruptive blip

others have suggested ripping the albums as a single track...but it'd be nice to have all the individual track names available...not to mention I'm not sure how well it would work merging my already ripped mp3s together...

  #51  
Old 12-27-2008, 03:21 PM
ZEROSKI ZEROSKI is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 23
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gdawg304 View Post
and if Microsoft ever decide to sell the Zune in the UK (since AFAIK it's N America only), it would be an option, lol

I guess I'll just have to restrict what music I put on the S9 and just not put any of my large number of DJ mix house/prog house albums on it, since the break really disrupts the music.

I just find the lack of gapless to be bizarre - it surely isn't that hard to implement, and unlike the lack of WiFi which some people bemoan, I don't see why it's so hard to fix - all it would take is a firmware update because I'm sure the hardware can handle it.

I tried a Touch 2G in the Apple store with bose earphones and it sounded very mediocre - as did my iPod classic on my Shure SE530s - the S9 sounds superb. It's a toughie, as the other thing in the Touch's favour is the 32GB model - I asked Cowon UK and they said it's now likely to be summer before a 32GB model arrives and it's not actually in the pipeline just yet - I trashed my ipod in August so I was itching for a replacement and Christmas was as good a time to ask for one! With gapless into the equation....well i'd be miffed either way...seamless but mediocre sounding music, or great sounding music with a disruptive blip

others have suggested ripping the albums as a single track...but it'd be nice to have all the individual track names available...not to mention I'm not sure how well it would work merging my already ripped mp3s together...
Sorry mate, I assumed you were on my side of the pond Yes the s9 spoils with the sound and video. I could be wrong, maybe cowon will make the s9 gapless. But since all of their previous players weren't and most hardware can support it.... Well the chances don't look good But anyways, after watching tv shows, cartoons and movies on the s9 screen it's hard to go back to the touch's screen. So my touch isn't going to get much use at all (games/web). Might put it up for sale now that I think about it

  #52  
Old 12-28-2008, 12:21 AM
sprockkets sprockkets is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 23
Default

When Cowon gets gapless or when the ipod supports vorbis, hell will freeze over.

However, I find that Cowon fixing the low precision vorbis decoder to be of more importance than gapless/crossfade. At least they fixed that on the D2.

LOL, there was another music player that supported gapless by default, now that I think about it: Minidisc! I love that format. Still have my $280 Sharp MD-MS702 slot loading model, which made Sony's look oversized by comparison at the time it came out. My Sony MZ-N505 still sets the bar for recording quality. It now looks oversized compared to my Cowon D2. I liked the fact that those devices were considered high end enough to come with remotes with back-lit LCDs. I wish this was more commonplace today.

Oh well, the days of 80min music capacity and real time transfer are long gone. But for the time, it was nice to have.

  #53  
Old 12-28-2008, 12:51 AM
The DarkSide's Avatar
The DarkSide The DarkSide is offline
Ultra Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Qns Vlg, NYC
Posts: 16,032
Default

I said this in another thread. This may make Cowon give us the 1 feature most of us desire, gapless. The S9 is still better than 99% of all the players on the market, so don't think they're dead just yet. In a month or 2, we'll know for sure.

Last edited by The DarkSide; 12-29-2008 at 01:26 AM.

  #54  
Old 12-28-2008, 01:57 PM
ZEROSKI ZEROSKI is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 23
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The DarkSide View Post
I said this in another thread. This may make Cowon give us the 1 feature most of us desire, gapless. The S9 is still better than 99% of all the players on the market, so don't think they're dead just yet. In a month or 2, we'll know for sure.
True, it sure is nice for the SQ and video, I think it sounds better than the sony s639 which is one sweet sounding dap, as you know

Last edited by The DarkSide; 12-29-2008 at 01:27 AM. Reason: Heh, correcting the spelling in my quote!!!

  #55  
Old 12-29-2008, 11:37 AM
cjcox cjcox is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 8
Default

It's very true that Cowon has never been on to do the gapless thing... but you know, thinking about it, in most cases I'm not skipping around track to track on music that is broken apart... so the best solution (at least for me) would be to rip it as one big single track instead of multiples. I know that's not going to work for all... but in my case, I'm always going to play the whole selection. I think Cowon's bookmarks might suffice if you just have to put jump point into the large shmooshed together track. But I don't know how bookmarks work on the S9, might not be possible.

  #56  
Old 12-30-2008, 12:36 AM
Beorn Beorn is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 27
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gdawg304 View Post
Felt a need to register just to pipe up here, out of frustration...

after months of speculation, and avoiding getting another iPod (after i spilled water on my Classic) due to being largely unimpressed with its mediocre sound quality even compared to my 3 year old Sony (which supported Gapless provided you ripped in ATRAC format)...I finally got an S9 for Christmas

fiddled around with the BBE, was blown away by the sound quality and the number of equaliser settings etc which can be changed...then by the unconverted version of Iron Man which I dragged and dropped onto the unit - it worked well and looked great on the AMOLED screen.

Then I tried to listen to a Global Underground mixed dance album to test it out...I listen to a lot of progressive house and electronic music (probably 50%+ of my music collection...and these are continuous mixes. There's not meant to be a gap and a pause, no matter how small, disrupts the flow of the music. I understand that not everyone is bothered but I fall into the camp that finds this annoying to the point where I cannot enjoy the music and I find myself sitting/walking/listening just waiting for the inevitable jump which will ruin my music. Maybe I have OCD levels of annoyance over this, but it's 2008, digital processing can't have taken a step backwards in the 3 years since I got my Sony, even my Applie iPoo could do it despite the flat sound quality...why is it so hard to include this feature? To me, the most important thing about a player is the ability to enjoy the music as the artist intended (or the DJ doing the mix!) with great sound quality...i don't care about Wi-Fi or document viewing or web browsing, or accelerometer based games - I have a PC and a WinMo Pocket PC...why has Cowon, which produces some of the best sounding players, not got its head around the idea that there are a lot of continuous albums out there, be it dance, classical, prog-rock or any other genre, and that plenty of people would like to hear these continuous albums in continuous form?

And call me stupid but not one review of the S9 which I've seen (including the one on this site, to all you Mods out there ;-) ) mentions the lack or inclusion of gapless.

I was lucky enough to get this player as a gift, and after being highly specific about what I wanted I'd be pretty disappointed to have to send it back. And for the actual audio quality it just blows my old iPod into the weeds. If only I had done more research or waited a little longer

Does anyone have contacts on the inside at Cowon who can push them to update firmware to include gapless? It seems like a relatively simple fix for a player with a "dual core processor".....

I would dearly love to enable gapless playback on this S9 because in every other way it suits me just fine. I guess because I don't read into these things except when buying a new product, I had assumed that all DAPs would be gapless by now...I guess I was wrong...

oops - sorry for length of post!
Hi there, I'm just like you. I've recently found this Japan only player from JVC that had great SQ and supports gapless playback as a function on the player (no need to mess about with specialised s/w like iTunes/SonicStage) but waited because the S9 was just released in Korea (I travel there often too).

One of the things that seems a bit hard to find are reviews that actually state Gapless support as part of their review process, as the present situation is such that gapless support is not as common as I was led to assume. Only in forums do I get this comment and for me, it is a deal breaker. Even the Toshiba Gigabeat that had great SQ also left me feeling a bit cheated because 80% of my playlists have this annoying skip pause when it switches tracks.

Manufacturers don't do it, but then I do know that some of them do pay attention to and maybe even read online reviews etc.. And as most reviewers don't make gapless support as a review criteria, I don't expect things to change. Forums aren't as well trawled.

JVC it is then for me. Gonna grab it when I head back to Tokyo in Jan.

  #57  
Old 01-04-2009, 11:56 AM
h1a8 h1a8 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 479
Default

Cowon could at least look at the gapless source code of Rockbox showing how to easily do it. I think even the author of foobar has sources on it. If battery life is an issue then just offer the option to turn it off.

If Apple gets any decent sq with decent user eq then I would erase cowon from my mind forever. It will say to me on that day, "Lord, lord, didn't I please you with good sound quality, good battery life, and good video quality." And then will I profess to them, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye player that work iniquity."

  #58  
Old 03-30-2009, 01:39 PM
mf0u3021 mf0u3021 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 10
Default

Excuse my ignorance if I'm wrong...

Isn't gapless playback only supported on hard-drive players?

Because of the way the data is read by the player, ie a spinning disc, it can read the data from the next track instantaneously without a need for a pause, where as flash based drives don't work like this because there are no moving parts?!

I thought that's why there wasn't any flash-based gapless playback devices.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that seems like the most obvious explanation.

  #59  
Old 03-30-2009, 01:46 PM
dfkt's Avatar
dfkt dfkt is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 15,330
Default

You're very wrong indeed... flash memory Zunes, iPods, and any Rockboxed flash player support gapless just fine. There just is no excuse for not having gapless on any player in 2009.
__________________
Please don't PM me with questions that can be answered in a forum thread. Don't be an idiot.
My Gear and Reviews | My RMAA Tests | IRC: #anythingbutipod on Freenode | Last.fm | Album Art Exchange | Rockbox | Replaygain

  #60  
Old 03-30-2009, 01:52 PM
mf0u3021 mf0u3021 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 10
Default

My bad. And yeah, there is no excuse! How can there only be one mp3 player that supports gapless playback, has EQ and has massive storage to take real advantage of lossless codecs? It's mind boggling!

Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:36 AM.