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  #1  
Old 06-07-2010, 06:29 AM
jiamenguk jiamenguk is offline
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Default New Phonak Models with "Perfect Bass" up for pre-orders!

http://www.hifiheadphones.co.uk/aude...odid-2234.html

Woohoo! The day has come as new models of the Phonaks has come, just like dfkt has prophecised. Seems like they're using the same drivers but with more bass ("perfected" as well). But the kicker is, they're going up for sale for only £80 (The original PFE's were £120).

While it's not updated on the Audeo site (which I suspect is slow in terms of updates), but the hifi-headphones should be pretty reliable, since they sell them. Should be well worth looking into...

Excited? I am.
Buying it? Need to think about what I should do with my own PFE's first .

Plus, plus the head-fi forum post:
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/...s#post_6688337

EDIT:
Just to summarise the information throughout the thread so far (for new comers and the like):
The Perfect Bass PFE's are the same earphones as the normal PFE's but with a different colour scheme and green filters. The packaging contains a smaller amount of accessories, containing only the 3 differently sized silicon tips.

Green filters seems to boost the bass frequencies and reduce the higher frequencies, sort of like the more exaggerated black filter black filter.

Green filters are also sold seperately and is compatible with the original PFE's and the original filters work with the Perfect Bass models.

Released in UK, Germany, US and Switzerland. For generally $99/£79/79€

Last edited by jiamenguk; 08-20-2010 at 05:46 PM.
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  #2  
Old 06-07-2010, 07:43 AM
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They look very nice in black, /me likes
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  #3  
Old 06-07-2010, 09:03 AM
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Agree the all-black certainly looks good.

Re. the price … is it possible this is just the 112 with a third filter for more pronounced bass and no foam tips (text suggests just silicones for this one) and maybe a couple of other accessories left out to drive price down as a quick "update" on the 112 before releasing the actual new model?

The text that comes with the ad does seem to suggest the "perfect bass" is a filter improvement rather than a whole new driver inside. The model number 012 suggests less rather than more!

Maybe there is a 212 around the corner?


EDIT:

I'm thinking so…

Quote:
Package includes:
Phonak Audéo PFE 012 Perfect Bass In-Ear Sound Isolating Earphones in Black
Silicone ear tips - 3 pairs (1 pair S, 1 pair M, 1 pair L)
Whereas 112 Package includes the silicones as well as one specially made comply tip set, three sets each of two filter types, cleaning tool and filter changing tool and fabric carry case - hence the higher price. Wouldn't be surprised if 012 packaging wasn't more humble too.

I reckon this is the 112 with a filter designed for use with their silicone rather than the expensive comply tips, designed for increased bass and packaged without excess accessories for a cheaper price.

This will allow them to discontinue to 112 and bring out the 212 as their "premium phone" with all the trimmings and leave the 012 as a budget version, which can be upgraded to 112 by buying the filter/filter changing pack/comply tips.

Hey! Just speculating here so feel free to shoot me down, but it makes sense to me.
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Last edited by EddieE; 06-07-2010 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 06-07-2010, 09:16 AM
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Now, I am wondering if they are able to come out with dual or triple BA drivers phones
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Old 06-07-2010, 09:16 AM
jiamenguk jiamenguk is offline
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Oh wow, I didn't even think of it like that, it's actually such a good idea, maybe us original owners can just buy the new filters or something, very interesting indeed.

And I really need to find my silicon tips (where the fudge did they go!?)
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Old 06-07-2010, 09:55 AM
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I'm definitely going to order one when they show up in the USA - unless it's just a filter!

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieE View Post
Re. the price … is it possible this is just the 112 with a third filter for more pronounced bass and no foam tips (text suggests just silicones for this one) and maybe a couple of other accessories left out to drive price down as a quick "update" on the 112 before releasing the actual new model?
Note that the sensitivity of the 112 is 107db/mw and the 012 is 100 db/mw. This is a strong indication that the drivers are different.

This lowered sensitivity ticks me off quite a bit. It's probably done to address the concerns of the EU countries that have loudness laws. I'm already at the point where I have to crank up my Nokia 5800 to max for some classical music. This means I'll now absolutely need an amp for this same music.

The sensitivity is even lower than many full sized headphones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xinz View Post
Now, I am wondering if they are able to come out with dual or triple BA drivers phones
I hope Phonak continues to make good single driver models. IME they have clearly demonstrated that a lot of this "You need multiple drivers to sound good stuff" is BS and all the costs associated with multiple drivers are not necessary.

Having listened to many Multi-Driver IEMS, I think many of them are just another way to extract more money from the consumer.
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Old 06-07-2010, 10:30 AM
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odigg,
Well spotted.

I hadn't noticed the sensitivity change. You're right this is probably to do with EU volume limitation.

Well as I readily admitted, this is just speculation. But I still say this looks like a slightly tweaked PFE 112 rather than an entirely new model.
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Old 06-07-2010, 10:39 AM
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I was waiting to pickup a set of PFE glad i waited! These should prove to be a lot better for me
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Old 06-07-2010, 11:11 AM
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Oh great....Another IEM I am now interested in trying and possibly purchasing...

Damm, this place is such a money-suck on my wallet...
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Old 06-07-2010, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieE View Post

Well as I readily admitted, this is just speculation. But I still say this looks like a slightly tweaked PFE 112 rather than an entirely new model.
Well here is some news - apparently it is just a filter. Happy news for all current PFE owners!

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/...s#post_6695218

I've got to say - my respect for Phonak went up by quite a lot with the announcement of this IEM and the price. I think Phonak could have easily have put it in a "premium" (e.g. metal) housing, labeled it an "Audiophile" product and sold it at $300.

I think the PFE 111/112 is not considered a premium IEM simply because it's not priced like a premium IEM. It's just the same bias of "It's cheaper for a reason."

To quote the post from the vendor who posted on Head-Fi - "At 80 GBP they are really pushing the boundaries of what can be expected at this price point."

IMO the PFE could be sold for a lot more and would still be considered a best buy.
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Old 06-07-2010, 12:18 PM
jiamenguk jiamenguk is offline
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They were a best buy at 3 halves that price, it's quite unreal how a company can sell it's earphones so cheaply, though I do suspect that they're making the money back through accessories. £12 for only 3 pairs of tips, or 4 pairs of filters, and £8 for the ear guides (thin molded plastic)...

By the way, £12 pound is like 36 KFC hot wings, an 10 piece bargain bucket, three 2 piece variety meals, an large Pizza hut pizza, or, if you use the £10 off voucher, about two large Hawaiian Pizza plus a side! Or if you're American or reads in American currency, about $18
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Old 06-08-2010, 03:30 AM
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Wow. Check out my wise predictions. I really am that good!

Sorry.

This is great news, means I can get the perfect bass filter and keep my non-volume limited PFE112s! Woohoo!

Now here's waiting in anticipation for 212!
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Old 06-08-2010, 03:51 AM
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EddieE: Good call man...Can you help me pick the next winning Powerball lottery numbers? :-)
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Old 06-08-2010, 04:50 AM
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Sounds good, although I've gotten used to the PFE's current bass. It reacts well to EQing.
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Old 06-08-2010, 05:17 AM
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lestata,
If could do that I'd be sunning it in Hawaii right now rather than in rainy London!
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Old 06-08-2010, 12:53 PM
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EddieE:
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Old 06-14-2010, 09:05 AM
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A bit late to this thread, but here's the facts directly from Phonak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by odigg View Post
I'm definitely going to order one when they show up in the USA - unless it's just a filter!

Note that the sensitivity of the 112 is 107db/mw and the 012 is 100 db/mw. This is a strong indication that the drivers are different.
It's just the filter. To achieve more perceived bass response it removes some midrange and treble, and thus lowers the sensitivity by 7dB/mW. Gotta appreciate their honesty at least, adjusting the specs accordingly.

I have some prototypes of those filters, and I was told the final ones sound the same as the ones I got. For my taste they could use a bit of EQing around ~100-300Hz, to get rid of a slight midbass hump. But with a passive filter mesh you can only fine-tune a frequency response so far. Of course this has to be seen in relation to the clarity one achieves with the other PFE filters, so calling it a "midbass hump" is kind of an exaggeration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by odigg View Post
I hope Phonak continues to make good single driver models. IME they have clearly demonstrated that a lot of this "You need multiple drivers to sound good stuff" is BS and all the costs associated with multiple drivers are not necessary.

Having listened to many Multi-Driver IEMS, I think many of them are just another way to extract more money from the consumer.
Well, these "new" PFE are exactly the same as the old PFE. They are cheaper because they cut down on accessories (no case, no Complys, no additional filters, etc). Of course one can buy the filters separately and can make these "basshead" PFE into "high-end" PFE. (I would do that, since IMO the all-black housing of the 012 looks way better than the cheesy fake metal plate on the 112.)

As for a really new PFE, I should get some prototypes soon-ish, but I think I can't say anything specific yet.
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Old 06-14-2010, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfkt View Post
It's just the filter. To achieve more perceived bass response it removes some midrange and treble, and thus lowers the sensitivity by 7dB/mW. Gotta appreciate their honesty at least, adjusting the specs accordingly.
I know I am fine with the black filter and tad EQ and no AMP. Do you think the green filters would benefit more from an AMP than the Black or Grey filters?
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Old 06-15-2010, 03:37 AM
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I honestly couldn't hear any difference in SPL between them. The PFE are rather quiet in any way, and the 7dB/mW less might translate to maybe realistically 0.1-0.5dB SPL less (guesstimate).
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  #20  
Old 06-16-2010, 03:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfkt View Post

It's just the filter. To achieve more perceived bass response it removes some midrange and treble, and thus lowers the sensitivity by 7dB/mW. Gotta appreciate their honesty at least, adjusting the specs accordingly.
on.
That explains a lot, including why you didn't detect a big difference in SPL. Sensitivity is typically measured at 1khz, so it's really 7db/mw at 1khz. Since they've decreased the mids and kept the rest the same, the sensitivity measurement is sightly misleading if you assume it's over the whole FR. It really just represents the particular EQ of the green filter, a reduction of the mids.

Actually, if you looked at the current graph for the PFE grey and black filters, the black filter would have slightly less sensitivity at 1khz as well. It's probably just 1db or so - not worth reporting.

Either way, it's still sensitive enough to put holes in your ears straight out of decently powered PMP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfkt View Post
As for a really new PFE, I should get some prototypes soon-ish, but I think I can't say anything specific yet.
Leave it to you to just drop these little nuggets
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