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  #101  
Old 04-13-2008, 12:45 PM
emmarc233 emmarc233 is offline
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How does it react if you turn it on and then plug it into the computer? Have you tried plugging it into another computer to see if it reacts the same way? When you do plug it into a computer, make sure there are no other USB devices plugged into it as well and use the ports on the back of the computer. How did you have the battery tested?
i've tried both the laptop and the main computer. i can use it on them both if i have the mains plugged in aswell as the usb connection. the player just wont run from the battery. my dad tested the battery and the battery is shown 3.8 volts. the zen helpdesk told me it will work agin if i re install the firmware but ive tried it so many times and its not changing anything.

elizabeth
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  #102  
Old 04-13-2008, 01:55 PM
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i've tried both the laptop and the main computer. i can use it on them both if i have the mains plugged in aswell as the usb connection. the player just wont run from the battery. my dad tested the battery and the battery is shown 3.8 volts. the zen helpdesk told me it will work agin if i re install the firmware but ive tried it so many times and its not changing anything.

elizabeth
Sounds like a bad charging circuit. You may want to look into replacing the battery.
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  #103  
Old 04-13-2008, 07:11 PM
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That's a good possibility.

This sounds just like the charging bug that version 1.40.xx had. If you've already tried updating the firmware and it's still doing this, then it may require reloading the firmware via Recovery Mode.

The devil is in how to press and hold the reset button while the dongle is plugged in if the thing won't power up at all on battery power.
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  #104  
Old 04-13-2008, 07:38 PM
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I'm not that familiar with the ZVM bug that causes this but if it were a bug in the firmware, wouldn’t it have done this from the time it was first loaded on the ZVM?

The fact that his battery no longer charges, shows a good charge, and doesn't power on at all without AC power, makes me think that maybe the charging circuit no longer works or perhaps during the last charge, the high voltage protection circuit engaged, cutting all bus power; not releasing or allowing charge and preventing it from utilizing the battery at all. (fhewww long sentence ) Either way, I think he may need to be looking for a new battery.<O</O
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  #105  
Old 04-13-2008, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by BobbyRS View Post
I'm not that familiar with the ZVM bug that causes this but if it were a bug in the firmware, wouldn’t it have done this from the time it was first loaded on the ZVM?
It was an insidious bug that generally only showed itself when the battery was below a certain point - and even then, it didn't show up consistently nor in every player.
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  #106  
Old 04-14-2008, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ZenChick View Post
It was an insidious bug that generally only showed itself when the battery was below a certain point - and even then, it didn't show up consistently nor in every player.
Oh, an intermittent bug......nice. Did it show up in batteries that we practicly half charge? 3.8v on a lith-ion battery is about a 50% charge.
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  #107  
Old 04-14-2008, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by emmarc233 View Post
the zen helpdesk told me it will work agin if i re install the firmware...
Hi. I simply *had* to comment on this.

I've contacted Creative's Tech Support on numerous occasions, and trust me whatever your problem is -- with *any* Creative product -- the nice people at CTS have a stock of vague standard-issue responses. "Update the firmware" plus a guide on how to do it is a popular standard-issue response for the ZVM and ZVW series... regardless of what the problem is.

Frankly it makes me laugh. My last problem was I had a brand new ZVM60 that kept failing to charge (it would charge to about 10%, then "decharge" all of a sudden). I actually did manage to update the firmware in the few moments it would be alive for before "decharging" the battery again (this was before contacting CTS) and tried a number of standard things. I actually explained the problem in detail and told them everything I had tried so far. Yes, I told them I had updated the firmware (among other things) and none of it helped. Guess what their advice was... update the firmware.

What happened to the ZVM60? I came to the conclusion the battery was faulty. Sent it back. Bought a replacement, but they were out of stock and offered me a more expensive ZVW60. Thanks very much, I said.

My advice to you, Elizabeth, is take your advice from some knowledgeable people on this forum and don't bother contacting CTS for anything. It's a totally fruitless excersise in providing Creative an opportunity to sound hilariously ignorant/stupid. By "hilariously", I mean it actually made me laugh when they made it *so* obvious that they hadn't even *read* what my problem was at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenChick
The devil is in how to press and hold the reset button while the dongle is plugged in
Yeah, it's a puzzler.

#1 Cut a needle/thorn off a pinapple. Not too much of it. Alternatively use anything firm-but-maleable. You need it easily bendable but strong enough to push into the reset hole.
#2 FULLY unfold a fairly thick-ish paperclip. Or something.
#3 Check you can push the dongle in properly with the paperclip going across the base of the ZVM (so the paperclip is squashed lengthways between the ZVM and the dongle).
#4 Remove the dongle, but keep it to hand.
#5 Stick the pinapple-needle in the reset hole. Put the paperclip lengthways along the base, touching the pinappple-needle.
#6 Cut the excess from the pinapple needle and get it out of the hole before you lose it in there.
#7 Glue the pinapple needle to the paperclip at a right-angle to the paperclip along its length (preferably not exactly in the center, but more to one end). Don't use too much glue. I guess you could fold some tape around it as an alternative. But remember you've gotta get the dongle into its slot without being obstructed too much by the thickness of what's sandwiched between the dongle and the ZVM base.
#8 Put the paperclip lengthways along the ZVM's base (again). Get the pinapple-needle in the hole. Put the dongle (just the dongle) in its slot.
#9 Now you can *rapidly* yank the paperclip and it should pull the pinapple-needle out the hole (or most of the way out, enough that it's not pushing reset). You may have to get someone to help you hold the dongle in firm so it doesn't get pushed out when you yank the paperclip.

Here's a messy diagram. This diagram shows everything before it's all pushed together. Kind of.

Code:
   .                .
   .                .
   |                |
   |    ZEN VM      |
   |                |
   | xx    .     xx |
   | xx   | |    xx |
   |      | |       |
   | xx   | |    xx |
   | xx    *     xx |
   |________________|
     o  =======

     |   < pineapple needle/thorn glued to paper clip
    =x=====================   < paper clip
        |::::::|
     \************/
      \__________/  < dongle
I don't guarantee this will work, btw. But it should. It's all about getting a paperclip thick enough to glue a pineapple-needle to it, but thin enough not to obstruct the dongle from going in far enough for connection. Infact, if you had the paperclip going the opposite way than it is in the diagram (going out to the left) you'd have a better shot.

Anyway...
#10 Plug in your charger or the USB lead... whatever. Hopefully nothing will happen because the reset button is held down.
#11 Now push the power switch across and hold it there.
#12 Wait a second. Then yank the paperclip. Hopefully the pineapple needle isn't pushing the reset button in anymore.
#13 Keep hold of the power switch until a few seconds after the CREATIVE logo disappears.
#14 If all that worked, you're now in Recovery Mode. Use it wisely... after all that effort.

Good luck.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyRS
perhaps during the last charge, the high voltage protection circuit engaged


This seems the most likely scenario. It's actually quite common for LI batteries to "die" because of the safety circuit. Happens a lot with phones, too.

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  #108  
Old 04-14-2008, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthrax_Mouthwash View Post
#1 Cut a needle/thorn off a pinapple. Not too much of it. Alternatively use anything firm-but-maleable. You need it easily bendable but strong enough to push into the reset hole.
#2 FULLY unfold a fairly thick-ish paperclip. Or something.
#3 Check you can push the dongle in properly with the paperclip going across the base of the ZVM (so the paperclip is squashed lengthways between the ZVM and the dongle).
#4 Remove the dongle, but keep it to hand.
#5 Stick the pinapple-needle in the reset hole. Put the paperclip lengthways along the base, touching the pinappple-needle.
#6 Cut the excess from the pinapple needle and get it out of the hole before you lose it in there.
#7 Glue the pinapple needle to the paperclip at a right-angle to the paperclip along its length (preferably not exactly in the center, but more to one end). Don't use too much glue. I guess you could fold some tape around it as an alternative. But remember you've gotta get the dongle into its slot without being obstructed too much by the thickness of what's sandwiched between the dongle and the ZVM base.
#8 Put the paperclip lengthways along the ZVM's base (again). Get the pinapple-needle in the hole. Put the dongle (just the dongle) in its slot.
#9 Now you can *rapidly* yank the paperclip and it should pull the pinapple-needle out the hole (or most of the way out, enough that it's not pushing reset). You may have to get someone to help you hold the dongle in firm so it doesn't get pushed out when you yank the paperclip.

Here's a messy diagram. This diagram shows everything before it's all pushed together. Kind of.

Code:
   .                .
   .                .
   |                |
   |    ZEN VM      |
   |                |
   | xx    .     xx |
   | xx   | |    xx |
   |      | |       |
   | xx   | |    xx |
   | xx    *     xx |
   |________________|
     o  =======
 
     |   < pineapple needle/thorn glued to paper clip
    =x=====================   < paper clip
        |::::::|
     \************/
      \__________/  < dongle
I don't guarantee this will work, btw. But it should. It's all about getting a paperclip thick enough to glue a pineapple-needle to it, but thin enough not to obstruct the dongle from going in far enough for connection. Infact, if you had the paperclip going the opposite way than it is in the diagram (going out to the left) you'd have a better shot.
Wow, your skill with pineapple is simply amazing! I would never imagine (never) that pineapple would ever come into to play here! Hey ZC, I like the way this guys thinks! Welcome to ABI Anthrax_Mouthwash!

Quote:
This seems the most likely scenario. It's actually quite common for LI batteries to "die" because of the safety circuit. Happens a lot with phones, too.


Yes, it is much more common then most people realize. It is the most common return issue related to battery problems.<O</O
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  #109  
Old 04-14-2008, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by BobbyRS View Post
Wow, your skill with pineapple is simply amazing! I would never imagine (never) that pineapple would ever come into to play here!


It could be anything thin, strong and maleable enough to be pulled out at an awkward angle (ie bent) without damaging anything*. A pineapple needle was the first thing that came to mind... but we could go with anything, really.

* I am so tempted to write "that's what she said" there.


Quote:
Yes, it is much more common then most people realize. It is the most common return issue related to battery problems.<o></o>
Precisely.
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  #110  
Old 04-14-2008, 03:54 PM
emmarc233 emmarc233 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyRS View Post
Sounds like a bad charging circuit. You may want to look into replacing the battery.
cheers. i'm going to call the zen helpline again tomorrow and see if there is any other options. i'll keep youz posted

thanks again

elizabeth
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  #111  
Old 04-15-2008, 01:05 AM
adaml315 adaml315 is offline
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Default Flashing blue light, but won't turn on without AC power

Creative Zen Vision: M 30 GB

I have been using this since September 2006, and haven't had a problem with it until a few weeks ago. The firmware is completely up to date. I have been charging it the same way as normal, not doing complete discharges though as that's obviously bad for it. So randomly, it stopped charging one day. It wouldn't charge while being connected to an AC Adapter (bought of eBay that I've been using for a year --no problems there) or USB connection to the computer (yes even the back ports connected to the motherboard.) All it shows is this black battery icon when connected to AC power, & then switches back to the normal one (but NEVER flashes blue when connected to AC power). However, it DOES flash blue when connected with the adapter by USB to the computer (but doesn't charge).

So...the problem is that it will not charge, but does everything else perfectly (besides docking without AC power.) It didn't charge with the original battery, so I ordered a battery from eBay from a seller that sold batteries to other people that worked, but didn't work for me, so I tried another seller's battery & that didn't work either. So the new batteries had the same symptoms & nothing changed.

So now I'm thinking that it may not be the battery that's the problem. I think it COULD be the player's recharging function.

Things I have tried:
-Connecting it to AC power for (at least) 12 hours straight (no blue flashing light) once I put each battery in, then unplugged it, tried turning it on, says battery is low & shuts off (but it WILL turn on & operate like normal if I keep it connected to AC power)
-Connecting it to my computer through USB for 24 hours, same thing except I get a flashing blue light, & battery low once I disconnect it, & it never docked UNLESS supplied with AC power at the same time
-tried all of the rebuilding functions, etc, everything in that "hidden" menu

*a little update* I just charged it for a bit (on a brand new battery), still the same problems, but now after charging it a bit...when I unplug it from everything, if I hold the power button on, it flashes blue 5 times & then stops (never actually turns on & works.)

I have no idea what to do now. I tried everything & have been searching these forums like crazy. I did nothing to fry it, overheat it, or damage it in any way whatsoever. It has been undergoing the same use as it has been for a year & a half now, & has been charged at least twice or so each week. I'm not worried about the warranty since I don't have the receipt or anything anymore (it was a gift), & it was way past the warranty period anyway I guess, too late now anyway. So...who feels like helping me out? (good luck to ya lol...)
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  #112  
Old 04-15-2008, 07:59 AM
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cheers. i'm going to call the zen helpline again tomorrow and see if there is any other options. i'll keep youz posted

thanks again

elizabeth
zen have decided to repair my zen i have to post it to them today thankfully i was just about round the bend. thanks for all the advice

elizabeth
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  #113  
Old 04-15-2008, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by emmarc233 View Post
zen have decided to repair my zen i have to post it to them today thankfully i was just about round the bend. thanks for all the advice

elizabeth
Good to hear! Good luck. Oh, and the company is called Creative, not Zen. Zen is the name used for the MP3 players.
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  #114  
Old 04-15-2008, 11:51 AM
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I would start by purchasing a new adapter or using one from someone you may know first.
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  #115  
Old 04-16-2008, 09:59 AM
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Yeah you did a good job. I think you pretty much got it figured out. It looks like some charging circuit or Micro-Controller on the ZVM's motherboard is bad. Maybe try buying a bad ZVM off EBay and try to do a motherboard swap. Just make sure it uses the same hard drive connector as the one you have now. Good luck!
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  #116  
Old 04-16-2008, 10:03 AM
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You should never try to mess with firmware issues when you have power problems. It sounds like you need a new battery. Once you get it, you may need to do a reformat as well now and then try reloading the firmware. Good luck!
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  #117  
Old 04-17-2008, 02:52 AM
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The cable is removable, so that shouldn't be an issue. At worst, he could just swap out cables.
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  #118  
Old 04-17-2008, 03:17 AM
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I'm sorry to hear about this, hon. I agree, it sounds like the battery is shot. Creative can repair this at a pretty reasonable cost, or you can try to locate a replacement battery and fix it yourself. Personally, I'd go the Creative route, just in case there's something else also failed.
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  #119  
Old 04-17-2008, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ZenChick View Post
The cable is removable, so that shouldn't be an issue. At worst, he could just swap out cables.
Adaml315: Ok, there you go.... forget what I said about the cable/connector.
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  #120  
Old 04-18-2008, 11:18 PM
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Thanks guys. I was thinking about sending it in to AerozBooks' repair center or whatever... but $125 (Canadian price) is way too steep if it is indeed just a cable that needs to be replaced.

Maybe they'll charge me a much smaller cost... but I don't know about that considering their website says it's a fixed fee.
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