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  #1  
Old 10-31-2008, 12:45 AM
m.rehorst m.rehorst is offline
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Default Is there a "kid's" version of rockbox out there?

I bought my 11 YO son an e260 and put rockbox on it so he could watch cartoons and play flacs from my vast collection, but the user interface is a little too complex for him. Is there a version that has had a lot of the extras stripped out?

I'd like a main menu that lists music, video, and radio and that's about it. Maybe a bass and treble control or preset EQ. I'm talking about a grossly simplified version of rockbox here...

Who's idea was it to put the music under a menu selection called "database"?

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 10-31-2008, 01:48 AM
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mtascavage mtascavage is offline
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yep - any iPod
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  #3  
Old 10-31-2008, 01:55 AM
Llorean Llorean is offline
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The music isn't under a menu called "database." A database of all the tags in your music is under a menu called "database." The music is wherever you put it on disk, accessible via the associated tags through the database, or by directly browsing to it on the disk.

If you think the database is better named "music" for your personal use, you're more than welcome to edit the language file to this purpose.

Meanwhile, we'd rather people see items named after what they really do than oversimplified names such as "music" that provide the user next to no clue what is really going to happen when they select the option. I'm sure you can imagine how many people would expect "Music" to just show them a listing of what's in their music folder, for example.
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Old 10-31-2008, 09:33 PM
m.rehorst m.rehorst is offline
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I don't know what anyone would expect to see in a folder labeled "Database", but I think most "normal" people would expect to see a listing of their music or the music selection criteria that the database menu shows in a folder labeled "Music".

You're a programmer and I am a general all-around geek, so we understand this sort of weird labeling, but Joe the Plumber (and my 11 YO son) won't have any idea what a database is.

MR
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  #5  
Old 10-31-2008, 10:10 PM
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kugel kugel is offline
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Then tell him what it is about...

Database isn't a abnormal geek term though. It's a common word, and normal people should be able to know what it means (i.e. more than just a simple listing of a folder).

The question is: If your son isn't capable of using rockbox because it's too complex, why don't you just go with the OF? With converting your flacs to wma or mp3 upon syncing of course. The OF seems to be ideal for your son's need..
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  #6  
Old 11-01-2008, 02:02 AM
Llorean Llorean is offline
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Most non-geeks aren't expected to be installing alternate firmware on MP3 players. And most people who do, normal or geeky alike, are expected to have the intelligence to read the manual if they see an option they don't know.

Frankly, it's not designed for kids. It's designed for people who want to get more out of their MP3 player, and options are named after what they actually do.

Among other things, many people don't just store music on their player. "Database" includes podcasts and audiobooks. All indexable audio files. One day it'll probably include video as well, if we add support for formats with metadata. In fact, currently it should index WMV files, which you can listen to the audio tracks of.

Naming it "Music" or even "Audio files" would be incorrect already, and it's just going to get more incorrect with time.
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  #7  
Old 11-01-2008, 12:58 PM
saratoga saratoga is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m.rehorst View Post
I don't know what anyone would expect to see in a folder labeled "Database", but I think most "normal" people would expect to see a listing of their music or the music selection criteria that the database menu shows in a folder labeled "Music".
Yes, but since we have both a file based and database method of viewing music, this is obviously not a useful suggestion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m.rehorst View Post
You're a programmer and I am a general all-around geek, so we understand this sort of weird labeling, but Joe the Plumber (and my 11 YO son) won't have any idea what a database is.
Maybe he should be using the retail firmware then.
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  #8  
Old 11-01-2008, 03:27 PM
recrapit recrapit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m.rehorst View Post
I'd like a main menu that lists music, video, and radio and that's about it. Maybe a bass and treble control or preset EQ...
Just a few ideas that may or may not be helpful:

You could set "Show Files" to "Supported" to limit the amount of things he could accidentally select in the file browser.

If you use a build with cpchan's Custom/Quick Menu patch (such as kugel's build) you could use the quick menu for easy access to settings like bass, treble, eq enable, etc. (For more quick menu settings see the txt attachment here: http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum...&postcount=685. Not all of them work, however.)

The Shortcuts plugin could be used to set shortcuts for video & music folders, an EQ cfg file (to load a preferred EQ setting), and a radio preset fmr file (to lauch radio w/preferred preset list). If you set the "Start Screen" to "Files" he could then just select "shortcuts".

You'd still have to explain how to access the Custom Menu (for kugel's build: press & hold Play button) and/or Shortcuts, but it may simplify things a bit by having everything in one place.
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  #9  
Old 11-02-2008, 02:13 PM
mattb123 mattb123 is offline
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I like Rockbox as-is (running Kugel's build) but I think the OP's requests aren't unreasonable. Rockbox adds so much great functionality that it would be nice for less technical people if you could have a simplified interface with all that good stuff (themes, eq, files compatibility, cross fading, high capacity MicroSD, etc) still under the hood.
I've thought about putting Rockbox on my wife's player to increase capacity, but I think all that text wouldn't appeal to her.

Is there a plug-in to make an icon-based menu like the original firmware? It might be useful for a lot of people.
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  #10  
Old 11-02-2008, 02:46 PM
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kugel kugel is offline
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As Llorean said. Rockbox is for people who want to get more out of their DAPs, not for people which do fine with the OFs. So, if you want it greatly simple, use the damn OF.
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  #11  
Old 11-03-2008, 06:48 PM
m.rehorst m.rehorst is offline
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I use an e280 and my son has an e260. One unit running rockbox and the other running OF would mean we have to keep the silly media converter on a computer to convert only some videos to play on the OF. I'd also have to convert perfectly good flac files to crappy mp3 to play on my son's player. You see, there IS reason to use rockbox besides being able to cycle through 400 menus and adjust the size of the dots over the "i"s and "j"s (not that there's anything wrong with adjusting the size of dots over "i"s and "j"s...).

Silly me, I thought rockbox would be great for everyone with a few adjustments to the user interface, sort of like being able to change the nearly microscopic default fonts to more readable ones. Whoever the dope was who came up with the idea of making readable fonts for rockbox should have just stuck with the OF. What an idiot!

Now that I understand that the intention is to reserve rockbox for geeks, I'll trouble you no further.
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  #12  
Old 11-03-2008, 07:23 PM
matthewbishop matthewbishop is offline
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kugel,

Why is it you get so defensive when someone has an idea that treads upon the geekdom of rockbox. You have modded the snot out of it, changed it, shaped it. done things to it that others would not. What is so different with what the OP wants to do??? He would like to see it made more user friendly, so that LESS TECHNICALLY INCLINED people can still make use OF THE FEATURES AND BENEFITS, that the rockbox OS has to offer (HCSD, EQ, ETC, ETC). You remind me of the old IT tech from the IBM commercials a few years ago who was surrounded by all the old complicated servers and could not grasp that a single simple managed machine could take their place. This persons desire has absolutly no bearing on your branch or how YOU use your player. Stop talking down to the Junior members, it is actions and words like that that will keep new people from joining and contributing to this community. I think you of all people will understand that all ideas have merrit and if they want to discuss them here, then by all means let them, don't discourage them. Sorry, I know I don't know you from a hole in the wall, but geeze, give them some salck. Maybe even throw in some advice...
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  #13  
Old 11-03-2008, 09:06 PM
Llorean Llorean is offline
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It's frustrating too that I was used as a "justification" for Kugel's comments. I think I was pretty clearly explaining why it's named "Database" in the official version of Rockbox, and why it's not as crazy a name as the original poster seemed to think it was.

I never suggested it couldn't be simplified in a custom build, or that the original poster should go back to the OF, just that "Database" is the best overall name for what the feature actually does, and that it needs to remain in use as the name for it so that it's not misnamed in the main-line version of Rockbox. In fact, I even offered a suggestion for how he could rename it for his own use easily, but thanks to the words of other users I'm probably now associated in his head with this sort of "get our of our clubhouse" mentality.
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  #14  
Old 11-03-2008, 10:08 PM
saratoga saratoga is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m.rehorst View Post
Silly me, I thought rockbox would be great for everyone with a few adjustments to the user interface,
You can adjust the user interface however you want, but your suggestion is not going to happen by default because it is unworkable for the reasons above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m.rehorst View Post
sort of like being able to change the nearly microscopic default fonts to more readable ones. Whoever the dope was who came up with the idea of making readable fonts for rockbox should have just stuck with the OF. What an idiot!
I programmed the default font. Looking at the themes users have developed on this site, few chose a larger font for menus, so I think we arrived at a very good compromise.

You can be as sarcastic as you like, but your request is unworkable, so I'm not sure what exactly you think its going to accomplish.
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  #15  
Old 11-03-2008, 11:49 PM
m.rehorst m.rehorst is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Llorean View Post
It's frustrating too that I was used as a "justification" for Kugel's comments. I think I was pretty clearly explaining why it's named "Database" in the official version of Rockbox, and why it's not as crazy a name as the original poster seemed to think it was.
Your explanation was fine. Again, I think it is fine for geeks but everyday folk won't understand it. It isn't especially difficult to use or get used to, it just isn't intuitive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saratoga View Post
You can adjust the user interface however you want, but your suggestion is not going to happen by default because it is unworkable for the reasons above.
I didn't ask for anyone to change rockbox defaults. I simply asked if any of the various builds out there have a simplified user interface suitable for kids and other non-geek users who may benefit from the wide codec support available in rockbox. A simple "no" would have sufficed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saratoga View Post
I programmed the default font. Looking at the themes users have developed on this site, few chose a larger font for menus, so I think we arrived at a very good compromise.

You can be as sarcastic as you like, but your request is unworkable, so I'm not sure what exactly you think its going to accomplish.
My sarcasm was aimed at Herr Kugel's "premenstrual" response to my inquiries/comments.

Thanks,

MR
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  #16  
Old 11-03-2008, 11:58 PM
saratoga saratoga is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m.rehorst View Post
I didn't ask for anyone to change rockbox defaults.
Yes you did:

"Who's idea was it to put the music under a menu selection called "database""

"illy me, I thought rockbox would be great for everyone with a few adjustments to the user interface,"

"Whoever the dope was who came up with the idea of making readable fonts for rockbox should have just stuck with the OF. What an idiot!"

These are the default settings, and you are telling us they should be changed so that rockbox is better suited to your specific purpose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m.rehorst View Post
My sarcasm was aimed at Herr Kugel's "premenstrual" response to my inquiries/comments.
Except for the parts where you talked about things I did (e.g. fonts). In which case, I'd say you're talking about me.
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  #17  
Old 11-04-2008, 05:11 AM
Llorean Llorean is offline
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For the original poster: Database can be renamed to "Music" by editing the language file. This isn't even a programming task, though I believe it does require you to get the tool to convert the text .lang files to the binary .lng files (the tool is part of the Rockbox project and can be compiled from SVN, which again doesn't require any programming skills just the ability to follow directions). But you'd have to replace the new .lng file every time you updated the version of Rockbox on the player.

It seems like it'd be a simpler task to teach him to use the few basic functions he needs, as nobody's shown a real interest in maintaining a "simple" version of Rockbox. For example, I see you're looking for one already done for you, rather than saying "How do I do this to share with others who might like a simplified one."
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  #18  
Old 11-09-2008, 02:18 AM
sputtertoo sputtertoo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m.rehorst View Post
I bought my 11 YO son an e260 and put rockbox on it so he could watch cartoons and play flacs from my vast collection, but the user interface is a little too complex for him. Is there a version that has had a lot of the extras stripped out?
My 5 year old can use her rockboxed Sansa to listen to her music with little difficulty. She can get into trouble and get lost at times, but for the most part she is able to get to her music and listen to what she wants too. This was because I explained where she needed to go to do the simple tasks she wants. I don't think it's a huge stretch for an 11 year old to follow instructions and internalize those instructions for using Rockbox. That being said, if this is truely a problem just use the OF, nothing wrong with keeping it simple. We don't use the OF here in the house as we have Macs and Linux, installing the converter would be silly.

I just saw, that you use FLAC, so installing Rockbox is the way to go, but as I said it shouldn't be too difficult to teach your kiddo to use the simple functions. Perhaps, rather than complaining about what you see as Rockbox shortfalls you should look into crating a a "user friendly" build. The reason it is "so complicated" is because the "geeks" you are harping on want that level of control and will allow th ui to be built in what is a pretty straight forward way. I have more problems using my wife's iPod than I like to admit, lemme tell ya.

Last edited by sputtertoo; 11-09-2008 at 02:27 AM. Reason: Saw a reply and wanted to expound
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  #19  
Old 11-09-2008, 06:59 AM
Photoguy Photoguy is offline
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I agree with Sputtertoo, if a 5 year old can use it, than certainly a 11 year old could!
Just try it out, it's not to hard for him, unless he's brain dead.
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  #20  
Old 11-09-2008, 07:07 AM
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@ sputtertoo Well said, I agree.

@ Photoguy, I wonder what they called you at 11? No need to insult another members 11 YO son.
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