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  #41  
Old 07-01-2008, 09:22 PM
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According to Samsung's website (I just moved, I have no idea where any of my manuals are), it's a PFS device. No mention of MTP
PlaysForSure is Microsoft's certification for MTP devices which means that by default, the device is an MTP device.

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Thanks for the research, both of you! I really appreciate it, it makes this a lot easier for me.
No problem Chili.
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  #42  
Old 07-01-2008, 10:52 PM
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PlaysForSure is Microsoft's certification for MTP devices which means that by default, the device is an MTP device.
Aha! I knew there was a reason it would not work in Linux!
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  #43  
Old 07-01-2008, 11:36 PM
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Aha! I knew there was a reason it would not work in Linux!
What are you using in Linux? Specifically:

Which distro and kernel version (# uname -r)?

Do you have libmtp and mtptools installed?

What are you using as a library manager?

I use Exaile (for Gnome), and my ZVM works wonderfully with it. It's not quite as intuitive as, say WMP11, but file transfers work, as does playing from the device within Exaile.
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  #44  
Old 07-02-2008, 12:52 AM
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The Zen Touch works great in my Linux (Ubuntu 8.something... I don't have it up and running right now, so don't have more detail than that). The Samsung player doesn't work at all, it's not even recognized when plugged in, but since I hardly ever use it, that's not a big deal.

And just for the sake of it, I have both libmtp and mtprools installed, and use Amarok to manage my music on the Linux computer.
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Old 07-02-2008, 02:48 PM
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Hmmm... I wonder why the Samsung won't work with that setup... *shrugs*

I used to use Amarok, and I still like how it looks; but after repeated failed attempts at getting it to properly and consistently recognize my Gnome key bindings, I gave up and used Rhythmbox for a while - then I discovered Exaile.
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  #46  
Old 07-02-2008, 08:04 PM
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According to the Ubuntu forum community, and some other google hits, Samsung DAPs just will not work on non-Windows systems. Mine will not even be recognized as a USB device... for all the computer does, the port may as well be empty.
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Old 07-02-2008, 09:14 PM
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I knew there was a reason why I didn't want to buy a Samsung. Having a piece of hardware that simply refuses to work on Linux would just drive me nuts!
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  #48  
Old 07-03-2008, 12:06 AM
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In hindsight, it wasn't a good purchase... except that it does belong to my husband, who has no interest in Linux at all.
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Old 07-03-2008, 01:49 AM
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In hindsight, it wasn't a good purchase... except that it does belong to my husband, who has no interest in Linux at all.
Sounds like a good time to educate the man!

And, on that note, I think I need to quit taking this thread so far off topic.
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  #50  
Old 08-02-2008, 11:15 AM
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hi,
ive recently decided i wanted to brush the dust off my zen and use it again as ive started running, though to my dismay the exact thing happen as previously mentioned by the OP, on my side however even with the (ZenTouchP4S_PCFW_LB_2_11_01.exe) download i cannot get it to work as it does not regognise my player is plugged in ( even on my old xp computer were it was originally used and worked fine) even tho my laptop seems to regognise it as " creative Zen" in the device manager dropdown and asks me for the driver location and the cd when i plug it in. i have been round and round in infinite circles ont eh creative website and was delighted to find a forum post with the exact same problem. also even the set up cd doesnt want to work on my laptop it just gets to the start menu then freezes.

any help greatlyey appriciated
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  #51  
Old 08-05-2008, 03:18 PM
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Hello mattd3. Welcome. Yeah, disregard the Creative CD especially if you are using Vista. You don't need any of the software if you have the PlaysForSure firmware installed on your Zen when using Vista. Which Zen do you have exactly; the Touch?

Try booting the Touch into Recovery Mode and doing a Cleanup to ensure its database is in good working order:

Detach the player from the PC and ensure that it is turned off.
Connect the power supply to the player.
Hold down the Play/Pause
button while inserting a paper clip into the Reset hole on your player.
Wait for about 4 seconds and remove the paper clip.
Keep holding the Play/Pause button until the Rescue Mode screen appears.
After the recovery mode has started, release the Play/Pause button.

Then connec to the computer and double check that the driver is loading correctly within Device Manager. It shouldn't prompt you for a driver since Vista natively support the Touch when using the P4S firmware. If it does, try some the techniques below on how to get the driver loaded correctly:

How to re-install the Zen's driver:

1. Click Start, (Settings), Control Panel, System, Hardware, and then Device Manager.
2. Highlight the MTP player listing, and press the Delete key on your keyboard, which will uninstall the MTP device.
3. Click Actions and then click Scan for hardware changes. Windows will install the necessary drivers.

To change the driver or install the driver in case of error:

1. In Device Manager, double left click on the Creative Zen listing under Portable Devices.
2. Select the Driver Tab and then select the Update Driver box.
3. Select the "Let me pick from a list of device drivers on my computer".
4. Select MTP Device within the Model box and select the Next button.
5. Windows will then install the MTP driver for the Zen.
6. Select Close on the next two screens and Device Manager should show the Zen under Portable Devices as Creative Zen with no errors.

To re-install the Zen's MTP driver if not being recognized correctly:

1. With the Zen connected, in Device Manager, expand the Potable Device category.
2. Right click on the Creative Zen listing and slect the Uninstall from the menu.
3. Once it is uninstalled, disconnect the Zen from the USB port.
4. Wait a minute, then plug it back in and take note in Device Manager that it refreshes and reloads the driver properly.
5. Once it reloads the driver properly, open My Computer and see if it shows correctly.

To force the Zen to use the MTP driver when connected and asked for drivers:

1. With the Zen connected, uninstall the Zen listing within Device Manager.

2. Using Windows Explorer, navigate into your windows/inf folder and "Copy" (not Cut) the wpdmtp.inf to your desktop.

3. Now connect your device and when it detects it as a new device, don't "automatically install driver. Select " click to specify the location..." and choose not to search for the driver. Click the option to specify what driver you want to use. Click next.

4. The next window should ask you what driver to use and the top of the list should say "show all devices." Click next.

5. The next window select "have disk" and point the path of the driver to the desktop where you put wpdmtp.inf and select OK.

It should then force the MTP driver to load for that device. You have now reinstalled all USB and USB host controller drivers and forced the Zen to use the correct MTP driver it is supposed to use. Again, try to see if your problem still exists.

If you can't install the driver when it is first detected or update it in device manager without an error code, try it this way:

1. With the Zen connected, right clicking on the driver when it shows in Device Manager and select Uninstall.
2. Then try and add the Zen as a MTP device using Add New Hardware Wizard in Control Manager.
3. Manually select the MTP Device and it will load the MTP driver for the Zen.
4. If you ever get prompted with anything saying that the device may not work properly or the driver isn't for that device, go through with it anyway.

Good luck!
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  #52  
Old 08-06-2008, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mattd3 View Post
hi,
ive recently decided i wanted to brush the dust off my zen and use it again as ive started running, though to my dismay the exact thing happen as previously mentioned by the OP, on my side however even with the (ZenTouchP4S_PCFW_LB_2_11_01.exe) download i cannot get it to work as it does not regognise my player is plugged in ( even on my old xp computer were it was originally used and worked fine) even tho my laptop seems to regognise it as " creative Zen" in the device manager dropdown and asks me for the driver location and the cd when i plug it in. i have been round and round in infinite circles ont eh creative website and was delighted to find a forum post with the exact same problem. also even the set up cd doesnt want to work on my laptop it just gets to the start menu then freezes.
This is exactly the same as my problem! I have tried several different solutions, but in the interest of helping other forum members in the same situation, I'm going to go through Bobby's list and report on the outcome. I will try to be a neatly organized as he is.
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  #53  
Old 08-06-2008, 10:00 PM
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Default Results.

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Originally Posted by BobbyRS View Post
Try booting the Touch into Recovery Mode and doing a Cleanup to ensure its database is in good working order:
I elected to not do this part, since that has been known to remove files from my Touch, and I refuse to do that until I know I can put them back on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyRS View Post
How to re-install the Zen's driver:

1. Click Start, (Settings), Control Panel, System, Hardware, and then Device Manager.
2. Highlight the MTP player listing, and press the Delete key on your keyboard, which will uninstall the MTP device.
3. Click Actions and then click Scan for hardware changes. Windows will install the necessary drivers.
Driver not found, install failed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyRS View Post
To change the driver or install the driver in case of error:

1. In Device Manager, double left click on the Creative Zen listing under Portable Devices.
2. Select the Driver Tab and then select the Update Driver box.
3. Select the "Let me pick from a list of device drivers on my computer".
4. Select MTP Device within the Model box and select the Next button.
5. Windows will then install the MTP driver for the Zen.
6. Select Close on the next two screens and Device Manager should show the Zen under Portable Devices as Creative Zen with no errors.
The Creative Zen is not under portable Devices, but is listed under Other Devices, with a yellow exclamation point next to it. Followed above procedure and received this error: "Windows found driver software for your device but encountered an error while attempting to install it."

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyRS View Post
To re-install the Zen's MTP driver if not being recognized correctly:

1. With the Zen connected, in Device Manager, expand the Potable Device category.
2. Right click on the Creative Zen listing and slect the Uninstall from the menu.
3. Once it is uninstalled, disconnect the Zen from the USB port.
4. Wait a minute, then plug it back in and take note in Device Manager that it refreshes and reloads the driver properly.
5. Once it reloads the driver properly, open My Computer and see if it shows correctly.
The Touch is once again under Other Devices. Made sure to wait several minutes before reconnect; reconnecting made no difference, Touch is still in Other Devices, and marked as incorrectly installed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyRS View Post
To force the Zen to use the MTP driver when connected and asked for drivers:

1. With the Zen connected, uninstall the Zen listing within Device Manager.

2. Using Windows Explorer, navigate into your windows/inf folder and "Copy" (not Cut) the wpdmtp.inf to your desktop.

3. Now connect your device and when it detects it as a new device, don't "automatically install driver. Select " click to specify the location..." and choose not to search for the driver. Click the option to specify what driver you want to use. Click next.

4. The next window should ask you what driver to use and the top of the list should say "show all devices." Click next.

5. The next window select "have disk" and point the path of the driver to the desktop where you put wpdmtp.inf and select OK.

It should then force the MTP driver to load for that device. You have now reinstalled all USB and USB host controller drivers and forced the Zen to use the correct MTP driver it is supposed to use. Again, try to see if your problem still exists.
No wwpdmt.inf in that folder, instead there is one wpdmtphw.inf and one wpdmtphw.PNF. Copied wpdmtphw.inf to desktop and then started installation attempt again. Pointed installer to desktop, and got the error "could not find driver software".

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyRS View Post
If you can't install the driver when it is first detected or update it in device manager without an error code, try it this way:

1. With the Zen connected, right clicking on the driver when it shows in Device Manager and select Uninstall.
2. Then try and add the Zen as a MTP device using Add New Hardware Wizard in Control Manager.
3. Manually select the MTP Device and it will load the MTP driver for the Zen.
4. If you ever get prompted with anything saying that the device may not work properly or the driver isn't for that device, go through with it anyway.
Once again, Windows is unable to find a driver.

I have done some thinking, and FWIW, I believe the problems started after I installed SP1.

Will do more research on the driver thingy.
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Last edited by Chili; 08-06-2008 at 10:00 PM. Reason: added info
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  #54  
Old 08-06-2008, 11:30 PM
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Default I am on to something

I have done my research now. I was going to make an edit to my previous post, but this became long enough, and seems important enough, that it deserves its own post. Basically, I did some testing.

I used one old 256MB USB drive, a far newer 4GB USB drive, a 1GB SD card in a multi-slot card reader, the Samsung DAP, and a 1st generation iPod Nano (the "stick of gum"-design). All of these were tested on the Windows XP computer in the next room, and worked fine there. The SD card was also tested in a digital camera without any problems.

256MB USB drive: Vista did the entire "searched for driver and failed" routine, however, drive can be accessed and used.

4GB USB drive: Vista did the entire "searched for driver and failed" routine, however, drive can be accessed and used.

1GB SD card in multi-slot reader: Vista did the entire "searched for driver and failed" routine. The reader is listed as "mass storage device" in Device Manager, and has a yellow exclamation point next to it. However, the SD card can be accessed and used, and I had no difficulties saving a file to it, or accessing that file again.

1st gen iPod Nano: Vista made the annoying weird "new USB device!"-sound, then did nothing that I could see. However, the iPod Nano shows up in the list of removable drives, and I can browse the contents and play the songs by simply double-clicking on them.

Samsung DAP: Showed the exact same behavior as the Zen Touch, right down to being listed under Other Devices and having the exclamation point.

Conclusion: This is not a Creative Zen Touch problem.

It seems to me that Vista Home Premium 64-bit has serious difficulties with generic MTP devices (and some minor issues with USB drives as well) if you have SP1 installed.

I am not amused. In fact, this is seriously ticking me off.
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  #55  
Old 08-07-2008, 10:01 AM
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I'm going to go through Bobby's list and report on the outcome. I will try to be a neatly organized as he is.


Quote:
I elected to not do this part, since that has been known to remove files from my Touch, and I refuse to do that until I know I can put them back on.
Creative claims that a Cleanup is not supposed to remove any files. A Cleanup should only remove invalid or corrupt links in its database (not the files themselves) in effort to correct the errors so the database can run optimally. So, when the links are removed from the database, the file system no longer sees them as existing, which in turn looks like the files have been removed and are no longer accessible.

Quote:
Driver not found, install failed.
Quote:
The Creative Zen is not under portable Devices, but is listed under Other Devices, with a yellow exclamation point next to it. Followed above procedure and received this error: "Windows found driver software for your device but encountered an error while attempting to install it."
This process will only work if the OS has the correct driver and MTP/Framwork to install. If it doesn't, then it won't install like before.

Quote:
The Touch is once again under Other Devices. Made sure to wait several minutes before reconnect; reconnecting made no difference, Touch is still in Other Devices, and marked as incorrectly installed.
Obviously this won't work since the Touch isn't being detected and loading the driver correctly to begin with.

Quote:
No wwpdmt.inf in that folder, instead there is one wpdmtphw.inf and one wpdmtphw.PNF. Copied wpdmtphw.inf to desktop and then started installation attempt again. Pointed installer to desktop, and got the error "could not find driver software".
If there is no wpdmtp.inf file, then most likely either MTP is not installed (shouldn't be in this case since you are using Vista) or has become corrupted or is simply just missing files in order for it to work correctly.

Quote:
used one old 256MB USB drive, a far newer 4GB USB drive, a 1GB SD card in a multi-slot card reader
Since these devices are not MTP supported devices, they won't help in proving anything within MTP. However, they may help in determining if USB support is working correctly which can in turn effect MTP. Even though the devices are working, the issue with the OS reporting they have failed when searching for the driver concerns me.

Quote:
Conclusion: This is not a Creative Zen Touch problem.
No, I agree. It seems to clearly be a Computer issue.

Maybe give this hotfix from Microsoft a try. It looks as though it restores MTP to the OS in Vista. There is even one for Vista 64-bit.
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  #56  
Old 08-07-2008, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by BobbyRS View Post
If there is no wpdmtp.inf file, then most likely either MTP is not installed (shouldn't be in this case since you are using Vista) or has become corrupted or is simply just missing files in order for it to work correctly.
In my head this immediately prompts the question: What's different in the wpdmtphw.inf file that makes it not work properly and what does the "hw" stand for? Off to google!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyRS View Post
Since these devices are not MTP supported devices, they won't help in proving anything within MTP. However, they may help in determining if USB support is working correctly which can in turn effect MTP. Even though the devices are working, the issue with the OS reporting they have failed when searching for the driver concerns me.
That's exactly what I was trying to determine. I work in tech support for a company that, among other things, sell USB drives, and since SP1 I have had a lot of phone calls from customers whose USB drive suddenly stopped working properly in Vista. I wanted to check if that was what had happened to me.

And yes, the error message about failing drivers concerns me too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyRS View Post
No, I agree. It seems to clearly be a Computer issue.
I blame Vista.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyRS View Post
Maybe give this hotfix from Microsoft a try. It looks as though it restores MTP to the OS in Vista. There is even one for Vista 64-bit.
Awesomeness! I was trying to find an article from them last night, that addressed this issue. Obviously I should have searched for "MTP problem", and not for "USB driver problem".

I will try that when I get home tonight and report back.
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  #57  
Old 08-07-2008, 10:33 AM
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In my head this immediately prompts the question: What's different in the wpdmtphw.inf file that makes it not work properly and what does the "hw" stand for? Off to google!
I believe it is the ini file for hardware (hw) configuration and ID pointer settings of MTP devices and their corresponding MTP files (CoInstallers, Services, Driver). This ini files is used in conjunction with the other wpdmtp.inf (and others) for MTP to work correctly.

Quote:
I blame Vista.
I blame SP1 for Vista..... or some other software/app that may have "broke" MTP.

Quote:
I will try that when I get home tonight and report back.
Yes, please do.
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  #58  
Old 08-07-2008, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyRS View Post
I believe it is the ini file for hardware (hw) configuration and ID pointer settings of MTP devices and their corresponding MTP files (CoInstallers, Services, Driver). This ini files is used in conjunction with the other wpdmtp.inf (and others) for MTP to work correctly.
hw = hardware... That was embarrassing.

But that certainly seems to explain a part of my problem... my Vista install has no files to use in conjunction with it! Hm... I wonder if that file is on my Vista disc?

Quote:
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I blame SP1 for Vista..... or some other software/app that may have "broke" MTP.
So does everyone else who has this problem apparently. According to Google this is a common situation for MTP devices, and general consensus seems to be that Microsoft has messed up the driver support a little bit.

Now I just need to find a solution to the USB issue.
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Old 08-07-2008, 02:20 PM
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hw = hardware... That was embarrassing.
That's ok. Nothing to get embarrassed about.

Quote:
I wonder if that file is on my Vista disc?
Most likely, but I wonder since SP1 is installed there may be a version conflict.... Have you tried uninstalling SP1 to see what happens?

Quote:
Now I just need to find a solution to the USB issue.
It's possible that it too is also related to the same issue.... SP1. Do you recall having the USB problem when SP1 wasn't installed?
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  #60  
Old 08-07-2008, 02:49 PM
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No to both SP1 questions. I did have problems, but they were related to a severely malfunctioning CPU cooler, and resulted in sending in the system for warranty repair. (Which by the way was both quick and well done--props to CyberPower for good warranty service)

I would prefer not to permanently uninstall SP1, as my games no longer are unstable since I installed it. It is certainly on my list of troubleshooting steps though.
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