android
  #1  
Old 05-06-2008, 08:26 AM
HipHopScribe's Avatar
HipHopScribe HipHopScribe is offline
Ultra Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,000
Default How Well Does Zune Gapless Work?

Has anyone been able to get gapless to work? I've tried with no sucess, but I suspect there may be a hidden caveat, that it's for WMA files, and I don't have any to test that suspicion. All I know is I haven't gotten it to work for MP3s.
Reply With Quote

Advertisement [Remove Advertisement]

  #2  
Old 05-06-2008, 10:04 AM
EnzoTen's Avatar
EnzoTen EnzoTen is offline
ABI Founder
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: US
Posts: 2,384
Default

Gapless is working for me for ALL zune market place stuff and nearly all of my ripped MP3s. Occasionally, there is a slight anomaly in between songs, more of a mis-sync than a gap. Happens more so on older rips. I wonder if it has anything to do with the rips. I will have to test on new rips.
Reply With Quote

  #3  
Old 05-06-2008, 10:53 AM
sumx4182's Avatar
sumx4182 sumx4182 is offline
Ultra Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Medina, Ohio
Posts: 2,194
Default

Seems to be working for me...i hear some hiccups but it could be the media...sometimes live albums aren't truly seamless jumping from one track to another, and i don't have many live albums to begin with...i guess a true test would be to take a track, split it somewhere in the middle with an editing program and play them back to back and see how that transition is, rather than assuming the live albums have a true track transition...
__________________
Very cool ABi threads that you should enjoy: Demographic|Useless Knowledge|Guess That Movie|Currently Listening to...|Post Your Pic|What is it? game|More difficult What is it? game|
If you feel your thread is worthy...PM me!
Reply With Quote

  #4  
Old 05-06-2008, 11:25 AM
HipHopScribe's Avatar
HipHopScribe HipHopScribe is offline
Ultra Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,000
Default

Must be a rip issue with some of my albums, I don't have many albums that are supposed to be gapless in the first place, but I have confirmed gapless works with MP3s.
Reply With Quote

  #5  
Old 05-06-2008, 11:25 AM
musichound musichound is offline
Off-Topic Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Staten Island, NYC
Posts: 2,058
Default

True gapless playback is when an album plays back exactly the way an artist intended. A true test would be Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon. Splitting a track in half and playing it back successfully with no noticeable gaps is more like skip free playback, IMO.
Reply With Quote

  #6  
Old 05-06-2008, 11:26 AM
sumx4182's Avatar
sumx4182 sumx4182 is offline
Ultra Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Medina, Ohio
Posts: 2,194
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by musichound View Post
True gapless playback is when an album plays back exactly the way an artist intended. A true test would be Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon. Splitting a track in half and playing it back is more like skip free playback, IMO.
and you are supposed to know how the artist intended?
__________________
Very cool ABi threads that you should enjoy: Demographic|Useless Knowledge|Guess That Movie|Currently Listening to...|Post Your Pic|What is it? game|More difficult What is it? game|
If you feel your thread is worthy...PM me!
Reply With Quote

  #7  
Old 05-06-2008, 11:33 AM
musichound musichound is offline
Off-Topic Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Staten Island, NYC
Posts: 2,058
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumx4182 View Post
and you are supposed to know how the artist intended?
Absolutely!
Basically I listen to an album from its source and then again after I encode it. If the playback is identical I know for sure gapless is working.

Better definition: When there is no pause in playback between the end of one audio file and the beginning of the next audio file.
LINK
Reply With Quote

  #8  
Old 05-06-2008, 11:39 AM
sumx4182's Avatar
sumx4182 sumx4182 is offline
Ultra Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Medina, Ohio
Posts: 2,194
Default

well, if you don't have a Zune, get one and let us know how that goes for ya! lol
__________________
Very cool ABi threads that you should enjoy: Demographic|Useless Knowledge|Guess That Movie|Currently Listening to...|Post Your Pic|What is it? game|More difficult What is it? game|
If you feel your thread is worthy...PM me!
Reply With Quote

  #9  
Old 05-06-2008, 11:47 AM
musichound musichound is offline
Off-Topic Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Staten Island, NYC
Posts: 2,058
Default

Now that gapless playback is available I am definitely thinking of getting one. That is one of the main reasons why I went the iPod route.
Reply With Quote

  #10  
Old 05-06-2008, 11:55 AM
sumx4182's Avatar
sumx4182 sumx4182 is offline
Ultra Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Medina, Ohio
Posts: 2,194
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by musichound View Post
Absolutely!
Basically I listen to an album from its source and then again after I encode it. If the playback is identical I know for sure gapless is working.

Better definition: When there is no pause in playback between the end of one audio file and the beginning of the next audio file.
LINK
and with that definition, how does my method not suffice in determining if the playback is gapless? When you play a live CD, sometimes there's a jitter that you can't tell if it's the player or if thats how the CD actually is...if you take a file, cut it in half, and play them back to back and it plays as though it's 1 file with no jump in the audio, then the gapless is working...
__________________
Very cool ABi threads that you should enjoy: Demographic|Useless Knowledge|Guess That Movie|Currently Listening to...|Post Your Pic|What is it? game|More difficult What is it? game|
If you feel your thread is worthy...PM me!
Reply With Quote

  #11  
Old 05-06-2008, 12:03 PM
musichound musichound is offline
Off-Topic Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Staten Island, NYC
Posts: 2,058
Default

Well, as long as the playback is seamless that is true gapless playback. I seriously doubt if if this can be accomplished by cutting a file in half and playing it back, especially if using MP3 encoding. I believe when a CD or album is interpreted as gapless playback it is determined between the song tracks themselves. I am not qualified to answer if cutting a song in half would be interpreted the same way. I guess this would be a good test, however.
Reply With Quote

  #12  
Old 05-06-2008, 12:25 PM
sumx4182's Avatar
sumx4182 sumx4182 is offline
Ultra Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Medina, Ohio
Posts: 2,194
Default

lol, i know it's between the tracks...my point is that if you take one track, cut it at a point mid song, thus making two separate tracks, they should play back to back as though they were one if the playback was truly gapless..
__________________
Very cool ABi threads that you should enjoy: Demographic|Useless Knowledge|Guess That Movie|Currently Listening to...|Post Your Pic|What is it? game|More difficult What is it? game|
If you feel your thread is worthy...PM me!
Reply With Quote

  #13  
Old 05-06-2008, 12:35 PM
dfkt's Avatar
dfkt dfkt is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 15,330
Default

MP3 files cannot be "gapless" by default, there's trailing data at the beginning and end of an MP3 file, leading to these dreaded gaps. The MP3 specs are from the 1980ies, and someone obviously forgot about that rather important issue back then. So every player that plays MP3s gapless uses some trick or other to achieve that.

And yes, if you cut an MP3 file properly in the middle (considering MP3s are structured with frames, not single bits or bytes), it should be the same as a consecutive files - either gapless works or it doesn't.

Ogg Vorbis, WMA, AAC, etc, are much younger and more versatile codecs and containers, and gapless is much less hassle with those.
__________________
Please don't PM me with questions that can be answered in a forum thread. Don't be an idiot.
My Gear and Reviews | My RMAA Tests | IRC: #anythingbutipod on Freenode | Last.fm | Album Art Exchange | Rockbox | Replaygain
Reply With Quote

  #14  
Old 05-06-2008, 06:17 PM
rubennyc's Avatar
rubennyc rubennyc is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 166
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfkt View Post
MP3 files cannot be "gapless" by default, there's trailing data at the beginning and end of an MP3 file, leading to these dreaded gaps. The MP3 specs are from the 1980ies, and someone obviously forgot about that rather important issue back then. So every player that plays MP3s gapless uses some trick or other to achieve that.

And yes, if you cut an MP3 file properly in the middle (considering MP3s are structured with frames, not single bits or bytes), it should be the same as a consecutive files - either gapless works or it doesn't.

Ogg Vorbis, WMA, AAC, etc, are much younger and more versatile codecs and containers, and gapless is much less hassle with those.
Might want to mention how LAME encoded MP3's get around this problem for players that support it.

Speaking of LAME, I'd venture a guess that an mp3 file split in two may not playback gaplessly if the exact track length information isn't updated accordingly.

__________________
TrekStor vibez + Grado SR-60 = Pure bliss
TrekStor vibez + Sennheiser PX100 = Portable happines.
Reply With Quote

  #15  
Old 05-06-2008, 06:27 PM
dfkt's Avatar
dfkt dfkt is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 15,330
Default

Well, the LAME --nogap flag is not supported by anything except Rockbox, as far as I know about DAPs. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I never use --nogap anyways (since it messes up more than it fixes, at least for unsupported apps), and both my Trekstor Vibez and Rockboxed Cowon X5 play regular LAME -v0 quite fine without gaps.

If you cut an MP3 track properly with apps like MP3DirectCut, the header info gets updated, so you should be fine... the emphasis is on "properly"...
__________________
Please don't PM me with questions that can be answered in a forum thread. Don't be an idiot.
My Gear and Reviews | My RMAA Tests | IRC: #anythingbutipod on Freenode | Last.fm | Album Art Exchange | Rockbox | Replaygain
Reply With Quote

  #16  
Old 05-06-2008, 06:38 PM
rubennyc's Avatar
rubennyc rubennyc is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 166
Default

MP3DirectCut? Cool. Learn some new every day.

--nogap is an old flag. With newer versions of LAME it's assumed you don't want gaps.

-V0 is what I use, too. Just watch out for tracks with mp3 ID3v1 tag info. I find this can break gaplessness on the vibez (causes the second track to start a fraction of a second too soon). Since I use WMP and WMP wants to add ID3V1 tag info every chance it gets, I've reverted to Ogg Vorbis to avoid this problem for now.
__________________
TrekStor vibez + Grado SR-60 = Pure bliss
TrekStor vibez + Sennheiser PX100 = Portable happines.
Reply With Quote

  #17  
Old 05-06-2008, 06:44 PM
dfkt's Avatar
dfkt dfkt is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 15,330
Default

Sweet, didn't know that --nogap is deprecated... good riddance.

I use Tag&Rename for tagging, and I only use ID3v2.3, so I didn't notice any misbehaving... good to know about ID3v1.
__________________
Please don't PM me with questions that can be answered in a forum thread. Don't be an idiot.
My Gear and Reviews | My RMAA Tests | IRC: #anythingbutipod on Freenode | Last.fm | Album Art Exchange | Rockbox | Replaygain
Reply With Quote

  #18  
Old 05-13-2008, 08:56 PM
zivan56 zivan56 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 461
Default

Works fine on 320 kbps MP3's with no silence (or lower volume) between the songs.
__________________
Sandisk Sansa e200 v1 w/Rockbox
Microsoft Zune 30 GB v2.3 Firmware
Reply With Quote

Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:26 AM.