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  #41  
Old 03-06-2008, 08:19 PM
shampoo shampoo is offline
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I don't know about all those technical details, but I at first also thought the quality of the P2s sound quality wasn't up to par with some other players I had, had in the past, like my Samsung T9 4GB and my old Sony (forgot the model, the tiny one with a switch to change songs).

Anyways, I of course hadn't set any DNSe settings or anything at all.

I looked around and changed the Clarity level up one notch, and that did it. Sounded very similar to the T9 if not better.

I like the DNSe better on the T9. I could just set it to Rock and be done with it, but the P2 is overly "exaggerated" in its equalizer settings, but I'm glad there's a master Equalizer and the user DNSe setting as well.

I just keep it to Normal and Clarity level 1. That's all.

Edit:: Oh yeah I'm currently using a set of AKG K81DJs for home listening and sometimes on the road, but mainly my "TO GO" phones are the Sony MDR-EX51 in-ears.
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  #42  
Old 04-01-2008, 09:11 PM
cdvma cdvma is offline
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I know I'm late to this game but I thought I would chime in about how systems with the same DAC can sound different.

The first stage is taking the digital audio (mp3) and decoding it to uncompressed digital audio (PCM). The quality of the decoder is important as its a large stage in the process. I've had my Creative Zen Vision:M mishandle high bitrate MP3s and produce audio artifacts....bad!!

Once you have the audio in digital format you must send it to the DAC for conversion to analog. This is presumed to be lossless since the digital traces on the PCB should not undergo noise...if they do the system is in bad shape anyway.

The bitpool used to represent the digital audio is also VERY important. Imagine the bitpool size equal to the number of slices of pie you can have. If you can slice the pie into more pieces then you can control more finely the portion you want. Same goes for audio. If you slice a frequency band into more pieces, you can pick which frequency you want to represent more accurately. 24 bits is common, 16 is as well. 24 is better and it all depends on what the processor can handle. If the DAC takes in 32 bit PCM then any bits not used are just zeros and you lose the fidelity. Its why you don't need a 32 bit DAC for a 16 bit signal...

The transmission to the DAC is done via a serial protocol that involves various system clocks to create oversampling of the digital stream and creating the analog output. A DAC usually can run at many different sampling frequencies so one system might run at 512x and another at 384x, ect, ect. Oversampling can help increase SNR (hence reduce noise). Also any clock jitter can damage the analog reconstruction so a system otherwise identical to another can have worse analog output if it has more clock jitter.

Analog power supplies are also important. You need good, stable power supplies. If your audio common ground has noise it can affect the output greatly. Your DAC can't reproduce good audio with noisy power supplies.

Any output filters hanging off the DAC? Any amplifiers? Filters can introduce phase/linear issues and noisy amps can increase or introduce bad stuff.

So sorry for the long read but you can see that the DAC is a small portion of the equation. Not all DACs are created equal...but not all implementations of the same DAC are either.
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  #43  
Old 04-02-2008, 01:52 PM
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Well, I'm the OP on this thread and thought I'd let you guys know that I'm pretty pleased with the SQ afterall.

I picked up some V-Moda Vibes (Red Roxx Version) IEM's yesterday and they sound fantastic with the P2!

Now if there was some way to change the P2's GUI from blue to red to match those headphones, I'd have one incredibly tricked out DAP setup that looks as good as it sounds!
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  #44  
Old 04-02-2008, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogBalrog View Post
Well, I'm the OP on this thread and thought I'd let you guys know that I'm pretty pleased with the SQ afterall.

I picked up some V-Moda Vibes (Red Roxx Version) IEM's yesterday and they sound fantastic with the P2!

Now if there was some way to change the P2's GUI from blue to red to match those headphones, I'd have one incredibly tricked out DAP setup that looks as good as it sounds!
The newest Blue Wave has a red theme.
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  #45  
Old 04-02-2008, 06:05 PM
doomlordis doomlordis is offline
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I have now tried a LOT of different cans with my P2 - grado sr60, KSC75 , JVC air cushions , igrados , e888lp but the winner for pure enjoyment is.....

Yuin PK3 , they sound quite similar to the KSC75 but are smaller and the bass is slightly less obtrusive, gals/guys get a pair of these they are simply amazing.

I will be getting some PK2s very soon (PK1s really need an amp)
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  #46  
Old 04-02-2008, 06:07 PM
doomlordis doomlordis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdvma View Post
I know I'm late to this game but I thought I would chime in about how systems with the same DAC can sound different.

The first stage is taking the digital audio (mp3) and decoding it to uncompressed digital audio (PCM). The quality of the decoder is important as its a large stage in the process. I've had my Creative Zen Vision:M mishandle high bitrate MP3s and produce audio artifacts....bad!!

Once you have the audio in digital format you must send it to the DAC for conversion to analog. This is presumed to be lossless since the digital traces on the PCB should not undergo noise...if they do the system is in bad shape anyway.

The bitpool used to represent the digital audio is also VERY important. Imagine the bitpool size equal to the number of slices of pie you can have. If you can slice the pie into more pieces then you can control more finely the portion you want. Same goes for audio. If you slice a frequency band into more pieces, you can pick which frequency you want to represent more accurately. 24 bits is common, 16 is as well. 24 is better and it all depends on what the processor can handle. If the DAC takes in 32 bit PCM then any bits not used are just zeros and you lose the fidelity. Its why you don't need a 32 bit DAC for a 16 bit signal...

The transmission to the DAC is done via a serial protocol that involves various system clocks to create oversampling of the digital stream and creating the analog output. A DAC usually can run at many different sampling frequencies so one system might run at 512x and another at 384x, ect, ect. Oversampling can help increase SNR (hence reduce noise). Also any clock jitter can damage the analog reconstruction so a system otherwise identical to another can have worse analog output if it has more clock jitter.

Analog power supplies are also important. You need good, stable power supplies. If your audio common ground has noise it can affect the output greatly. Your DAC can't reproduce good audio with noisy power supplies.

Any output filters hanging off the DAC? Any amplifiers? Filters can introduce phase/linear issues and noisy amps can increase or introduce bad stuff.

So sorry for the long read but you can see that the DAC is a small portion of the equation. Not all DACs are created equal...but not all implementations of the same DAC are either.
You can make a good DAC sound bad but you cant make a bad DAC sound good.
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  #47  
Old 04-02-2008, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doomlordis View Post
I will be getting some PK2s very soon (PK1s really need an amp)
General consensus seems to be that the PK2 are very lean on bass, compared to the PK3 and PK1. The new OK1 semi-IEMs seem to be interesting.
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  #48  
Old 04-06-2008, 06:52 PM
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Well my bass is quite good...now my mp3's with the exception of a few are excellent and the sound comming out of my headphones are great...
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  #49  
Old 04-08-2008, 08:28 PM
cdvma cdvma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doomlordis View Post
You can make a good DAC sound bad but you cant make a bad DAC sound good.
And its EASY to make a good DAC sound bad
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  #50  
Old 04-08-2008, 10:24 PM
PeeZy PeeZy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lebellium View Post
According to sound quality:




I rather trust our generationmp3 team
Nike_T is probably right!

just wondering... where would the Sansa e200 series fit into all this? a few of my friends and I did a blindfold test and figured it to be better than the iPod Touch in sound quality... is this confirmed?
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  #51  
Old 04-09-2008, 09:43 AM
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Probably. The touch has reputed to be the worst sound quality of all the iPods to date.
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  #52  
Old 04-09-2008, 01:00 PM
Syrish Syrish is offline
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I have a p2 and love the dnse, i have custom eq and im glad that theres controls for 3d and bass and 2 extra bars on the eq. Still i have tested the Srs in iriver clix 2 quite a time ago. And hey i remember it was better than this one, my mom have an iriver dont actually remember the name, its the small one in white and black colors quite easy to use. Still i love my p2 and considering the price for it my friends are ashamed of their ipod nanos. Because this one's is as cheap as the ipod nano.

as for the headphones i have a pair of akg k414, or sometimes called k16p(i think) i've just bought them and i love the sound, for this price i couldnt get better. I LOVE THE BASS in them.
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  #53  
Old 04-09-2008, 02:36 PM
PeeZy PeeZy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
Probably. The touch has reputed to be the worst sound quality of all the iPods to date.
yeah that's what i heard, but do you happen to know close to where the e200 would approximately go on that chart? I think it may be close to the ipod classic, but i'm not sure.
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  #54  
Old 04-09-2008, 09:44 PM
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checked out the ipod touch properly for the first time... i mean i have seen it and checked it out but never went deep enough to change EQ and go around the interface and stufff.... i must say that the ipod touch's interface is wayyyy better than P2 but
when i tried to change the EQ 'coz the sound for the song sucked, it pretty much sounded the same even after changing the EQ setttings... i mean i went from dance to rock and tried every single choice and the sound didn't change drastically... it still sounded as if i'm listening to some device which is 5 years old... Even P2's normal setting can kick the touch's arse anyday...

*it was my frnd's touch
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  #55  
Old 04-11-2008, 08:01 PM
arbalest21 arbalest21 is offline
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I'm kinda disappointed at the P2 also. I used to own the iRiver H120 and I LOVED the sound and deep bass levels with my Shure 210's//Sony MDR's, and to this day... it's the player I use to as my benchmark. I was kinda expecting more of a punch from the P2 since it does have customizable eq's and everything. From my experience, the vocals from my songs are nice and rich, but the bass is lacking. My H120 has died a while back after a good 6 years of use... and till this day I still haven't found a player that can match, or beat, its sound quality.
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  #56  
Old 04-11-2008, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arbalest21 View Post
I'm kinda disappointed at the P2 also. I used to own the iRiver H120 and I LOVED the sound and deep bass levels with my Shure 210's//Sony MDR's, and to this day... that's the player I use to as my benchmark. I was kinda expecting more of a punch since it does have customizable eq's and everything. My H120 has died a while back after a good 6 years of use... and till this day I haven't found a player that can match, or beat, its sound quality.
Have you tried a cowon?
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  #57  
Old 04-11-2008, 08:09 PM
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I'll give them a shot whenever I can, unfortunately none of my friends have them.
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  #58  
Old 04-11-2008, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arbalest21 View Post
I'll give them a shot whenever I can, unfortunately none of my friends have them.
see if any of your friends have it here.
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  #59  
Old 04-11-2008, 11:16 PM
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sassafras That chart -
Quote:
Originally Posted by lebellium View Post
According to sound quality:




I rather trust our generationmp3 team
Nike_T is probably right!
Whats the audio format and the bitate in this graph?
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  #60  
Old 04-12-2008, 08:47 AM
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wma 56kbps
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