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  #21  
Old 03-02-2008, 01:00 PM
mirajjj mirajjj is offline
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SAMSUNG P2 DNSe FTW!
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  #22  
Old 03-02-2008, 02:34 PM
iLLuSionS iLLuSionS is offline
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EQ / DNSe FTL
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  #23  
Old 03-02-2008, 05:22 PM
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Before I start talking about P2's sound quality here:

First: every pair of ears is different (concerning the ears anatomy)
Second: every brain "translates" sound-information into final perceived sound in its own way - how you hear sound/music is "learned" throughout your whole life - just like everything else - therefore you can train yourself to hear "more" than others
Third: every headphone-model sounds different (very important!!!)
Fourth: some DAP's wont sound good with some headphone-models and vice versa

So, what might sound fantastic for one ear could sound horrible for another. This "sound-quality" discussion has been discussed for ages now and there wont be an end, unfortunately, because of the 4 points I've already mentioned before!

However, FOR ME the P2's sound-quality is far beyond average - it smashes my Zen Vision:M in almost every aspect - especially concerning bass. Soundstage is also better on the P2 - ZV:M sounds "narrow/closed" compared to the P2 side by side.

Some time ago I owned a COWON X5 30GB which I compared side by side with my first Zen Vision:M (30GB) back then. I prefered the output (no EQ) of my ZV:M (very crisp and detailed) although the X5 offered a lot more bass after sound-customization (MACH3BASS!!!). Nevertheless I sold my X5 since I fell in love with the ZV:M display/video/GUI.

Now, since I've bought my FUTURE SONICS ATRIO M5's (review on Abi), I was searching for a slim (max 10mm) 8GB flash-based DAP with good SQ and lots of bass (while I'm talking about bass-heavy DAP's: I don't like the COWON D2 and it is anything but slim)

Well, I've bought a SAMSUNG P2 8GB (great ebay-bargain - iRiver Clix2 8Gb would cost nearly 100 bucks more) and I'm very pleased with the P2's SQ so far.
Since I liked the ZV:M's sound more than the X5's back then, although the ZV:M was lacking bass (talking about useless Bass Boost) I'm now a very happy camper with the P2's thumping bass combined with its clear midrange and treble at the same time.

However, I have to admit that my ancient iRiver T30 256MB is a tad better in terms of bass clarity with applied TRUBASS - the T30's bass is VERY well defined and goes deeper on the frequency-spectrum than the P2. But the rest of the frequency-spectrum sounds muddy then on the iRiver T30 which is a very unpleasant trade-off.

Well, at the end I can truly say that the P2 is a very good sounding DAP indeed - at least FOR MY EARS!
But do yourself a favour and keep "Street Mode", "Clarity" (tweak the EQ instead) and "3D" switched off and don't set "BASS" on "1" (decreases bass!!!) or "4" (too muddy IMHO). Tweak the EQ to your liking and your P2 will rock!
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  #24  
Old 03-02-2008, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoComp View Post
Before I start talking about P2's sound quality here:

First: every pair of ears is different (concerning the ears anatomy)
Second: every brain "translates" sound-information into final perceived sound in its own way - how you hear sound/music is "learned" throughout your whole life - just like everything else - therefore you can train yourself to hear "more" than others
Third: every headphone-model sounds different (very important!!!)
Fourth: some DAP's wont sound good with some headphone-models and vice versa

So, what might sound fantastic for one ear could sound horrible for another. This "sound-quality" discussion has been discussed for ages now and there wont be an end, unfortunately, because of the 4 points I've already mentioned before!

However, FOR ME the P2's sound-quality is far beyond average - it smashes my Zen Vision:M in almost every aspect - especially concerning bass. Soundstage is also better on the P2 - ZV:M sounds "narrow/closed" compared to the P2 side by side.

Some time ago I owned a COWON X5 30GB which I compared side by side with my first Zen Vision:M (30GB) back then. I prefered the output (no EQ) of my ZV:M (very crisp and detailed) although the X5 offered a lot more bass after sound-customization (MACH3BASS!!!). Nevertheless I sold my X5 since I fell in love with the ZV:M display/video/GUI.

Now, since I've bought my FUTURE SONICS ATRIO M5's (review on Abi), I was searching for a slim (max 10mm) 8GB flash-based DAP with good SQ and lots of bass (while I'm talking about bass-heavy DAP's: I don't like the COWON D2 and it is anything but slim)

Well, I've bought a SAMSUNG P2 8GB (great ebay-bargain - iRiver Clix2 8Gb would cost nearly 100 bucks more) and I'm very pleased with the P2's SQ so far.
Since I liked the ZV:M's sound more than the X5's back then, although the ZV:M was lacking bass (talking about useless Bass Boost) I'm now a very happy camper with the P2's thumping bass combined with its clear midrange and treble at the same time.

However, I have to admit that my ancient iRiver T30 256MB is a tad better in terms of bass clarity with applied TRUBASS - the T30's bass is VERY well defined and goes deeper on the frequency-spectrum than the P2. But the rest of the frequency-spectrum sounds muddy then on the iRiver T30 which is a very unpleasant trade-off.

Well, at the end I can truly say that the P2 is a very good sounding DAP indeed - at least FOR MY EARS!
But do yourself a favour and keep "Street Mode", "Clarity" (tweak the EQ instead) and "3D" switched off and don't set "BASS" on "1" (decreases bass!!!) or "4" (too muddy IMHO). Tweak the EQ to your liking and your P2 will rock!
This is great advice. Thanks for the post!

I have decided to keep the P2. After a shaky start, the little guy is growing on me. There's really no hope of it properly driving my 770/80's, so maybe that was a tad unfair of me to hope for. But it surely isn't bad. It's just under powered.

That said, I've been able to squeek out some decent sound quality with it.

I'm going to take a look at the FUTURE SONICS ATRIO M5's, and see what they can do.

Thanks for the posts everyone!
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  #25  
Old 03-02-2008, 08:47 PM
iLLuSionS iLLuSionS is offline
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Originally Posted by AnalogBalrog View Post
This is great advice. Thanks for the post!

I have decided to keep the P2. After a shaky start, the little guy is growing on me. There's really no hope of it properly driving my 770/80's, so maybe that was a tad unfair of me to hope for. But it surely isn't bad. It's just under powered.

That said, I've been able to squeek out some decent sound quality with it.

I'm going to take a look at the FUTURE SONICS ATRIO M5's, and see what they can do.

Thanks for the posts everyone!
get a dedicated amp and then get an LOD cables =D then ur 770/80s will shine with portability! =D
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  #26  
Old 03-02-2008, 11:12 PM
emptystreets130 emptystreets130 is offline
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Just found this forum. I don't think the hardware is lacking, It's just the choice of headphones. It may sound good on a different brand unit and bad on the other brands but no one really makes a perfect headphone unless you want to spend $$$.

I have several different headphones for the P2. The main ones I've used is a mid-priced Logitech headphone (dont remember the model number) and a mid-priced Sony headphone. To my amazement, the Logitech has the the low end bass that the Sony was lack, while the Sony has those really crisp highs, the Logitech has decent highs (still enough to tell them apart from the lows and mids.) Like the the person who said that headphone makes a differences, It does.
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  #27  
Old 03-02-2008, 11:27 PM
willT07 willT07 is offline
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who ever had the samsung k5 would know that is the mp3 with the best sound quality
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  #28  
Old 03-02-2008, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Like the the person who said that headphone makes a differences, It does.
Has anyone tried the Cardo S2 stereo bluetooth headphones with a P2?
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  #29  
Old 03-03-2008, 01:06 AM
iLLuSionS iLLuSionS is offline
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Has anyone tried the Cardo S2 stereo bluetooth headphones with a P2?
if u really want sq, u should go wired.
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  #30  
Old 03-03-2008, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogBalrog View Post
This is great advice. Thanks for the post!
I have decided to keep the P2. After a shaky start, the little guy is growing on me. There's really no hope of it properly driving my 770/80's, so maybe that was a tad unfair of me to hope for. But it surely isn't bad. It's just under powered.
That said, I've been able to squeek out some decent sound quality with it.
I'm going to take a look at the FUTURE SONICS ATRIO M5's, and see what they can do.
Thanks for the posts everyone!
You're welcome.
However, nearly every DAP out there is underpowered if you try to push some full sized headphones with it - COWON D2 is one of the only devices that comes to my mind with its outstanding powerful built-in amp (2x37mW).

Samsung's P2 has something like 20-25mW per Channel which is anything but underpowered compared to other DAP's.

However, I wouldn't dare to drive any headphones with an impendance higher than 50 Ohms directly with any DAP. Anything above 50 Ohms will need a portable amp to drive the headphone to its full extent. Especially full sized cans!
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  #31  
Old 03-03-2008, 11:32 AM
Enigmatic Enigmatic is offline
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Whenever I read reviews or discussions of MP3 players and their sound quality is described, I wonder if these reviewers and users are actually hearing what they claim to be hearing. I think there are at least three possibilities:
1. The vendor designed a bad MP3 player.
2. The MP3 player is defective.
3. The reviewer or user is experiencing the audio equivalent of the placebo effect.
A good MP3 player should sound neutral, assuming, obviously, in the case of lossy data compression, a good encoder is used at a sufficiently high bit rate. Among audiophiles, many claims have been made for amplifiers, CD players, and wires all having different sound qualities. But when tested double blind to remove the placebo effect, no one has yet been able to reliably hear a difference. I suspect this may also be the case with MP3 players. Please see http://www.provide.net/~djcarlst/abx_plac.htm for a description of the placebo effect as it applies to audio.
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  #32  
Old 03-03-2008, 11:58 AM
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Are you saying that when tested ABX that all amplifiers, CD players, and cables should sound the same? That's ludicrous. Even among high end equipment, there will be distinct, noticable differences between devices. Don't try to say that they all sound neutral and it's just placebo effect. That's silly.
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  #33  
Old 03-03-2008, 12:05 PM
iLLuSionS iLLuSionS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
Are you saying that when tested ABX that all amplifiers, CD players, and cables should sound the same? That's ludicrous. Even among high end equipment, there will be distinct, noticable differences between devices. Don't try to say that they all sound neutral and it's just placebo effect. That's silly.
+2... im pretty sure i hear a difference between my "p2" and my "nano 2nd gen" and my "cheapo mp3 no name brand". and if u wanna go further, i can hear difference between my "laptop" to my "cd player" to my "computer".

maybe he was using ibuds, so no matter what, they sound the same =P
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  #34  
Old 03-03-2008, 12:26 PM
musichound musichound is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
Are you saying that when tested ABX that all amplifiers, CD players, and cables should sound the same? That's ludicrous. Even among high end equipment, there will be distinct, noticable differences between devices. Don't try to say that they all sound neutral and it's just placebo effect. That's silly.
I think the placebo effect applies only when a person thinks he/she hears a difference. ABX testing removes the placebo effect to expose how audio truly sounds.
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  #35  
Old 03-03-2008, 12:31 PM
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I think this placebo effect applies only when a person thinks he/she hears a difference. ABX testing removes the placebo effect to expose how audio truly sounds.
I know what the placebo effect is. ABX testing is double-blind to control the placebo effect. My point is that the poster implied that all decent/non-defective mp3 players should sound the same and that any deviation is due to placebo effect. That is most assuredly not true.
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  #36  
Old 03-03-2008, 12:46 PM
musichound musichound is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
I know what the placebo effect is. ABX testing is double-blind to control the placebo effect. My point is that the poster implied that all decent/non-defective mp3 players should sound the same and that any deviation is due to placebo effect. That is most assuredly not true.
And I definitely agree with you. How on earth can one say that a Pioneer setup sounds as good as a Mcintosh setup?
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  #37  
Old 03-03-2008, 10:28 PM
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How does the Samsung Z5 compare with the P2? Where would the Z5 appear on the graph?
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  #38  
Old 03-04-2008, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musichound View Post
And I definitely agree with you. How on earth can one say that a Pioneer setup sounds as good as a Mcintosh setup?
http://bruce.coppola.name/audio/Amp_Sound.pdf
http://www.theaudiocritic.com/
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  #39  
Old 03-04-2008, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
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One of my favorite magazines... debunking a lot of misconceptions about audio. Not without flaws, but better than the rest.
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  #40  
Old 03-05-2008, 01:19 AM
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I don't know about home amplifiers. Maybe they do all sound the same.

mp3 players are different. They are the alpha and the omega of sound (before the signal hits your headphones... but that's a different story) and there are most definitely audible and quantifiable differences between mp3 players. Just ask dfkt for some RMAA tests between different mp3 players. You will see noticeable differences in frequency response and noise. Then put them in your ears with some decent quality higher-end 'phones... You will then understand.
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