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  #1  
Old 03-01-2008, 08:15 AM
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AnalogBalrog AnalogBalrog is offline
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Default Disappointed with P2 Sound Quality

Hey everyone,

I just bought a P2, brought it home, tested it out with 3 different sets of headphones/earbuds including the P2 Earbuds, Beyer 770/80's and some Philips jogging headphones, and whoa... the sound quality of this unit just isn't good.

I tried tweaking the user DNSe and also tried tweaking the master EQ too. I spent quite a few hours and was never able to get the SQ to be that great.

I played my brother's Zune 30 (1G) alongside the P2, going thru the 770/80's on the same song, same file, and the Zune killed it!? I would have never thought the Zune would sound better than the P2 after all the reading I've done on these forums. The Zune seemingly had better output (played louder), better mid-bass, and I was just shocked.

Am I missing something here? What am I doing wrong?

I'm thinking about taking it back, but thought I'd chime in here first.
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Old 03-01-2008, 09:53 AM
death__machine death__machine is offline
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I dont know any other people who have compared the quality of these two devices. But EnzoTen might be able to help you here. He's the lead reviewer and I'm sure he will give you a perfect answer regarding the quality of the devices.
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Old 03-01-2008, 10:10 AM
Nike T Nike T is offline
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I'm pretty sure with the Beyer 770's you need to amp it, because the impedance is high. the zune probably just has a more powerful amp. maybe you should try getting some IEM's and then compare
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Old 03-01-2008, 10:29 AM
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According to sound quality:




I rather trust our generationmp3 team
Nike_T is probably right!
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  #5  
Old 03-01-2008, 10:38 AM
death__machine death__machine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lebellium View Post
According to sound quality:




I rather trust our generationmp3 team
Nike_T is probably right!

Pictures can say a thousand words ..
Lol look at the touch..
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  #6  
Old 03-01-2008, 10:39 AM
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How can they rate the Cowon D2 that high and the iAudio 7 that low? They use the same Wolfson DAC/CODEC/HW-EQ and the same BBE enhancements - like most Cowon players they should be more or less the same.

The P2 has also more or less the same innards as the D2 (Telechips SOC, Wolfson CODEC), but of course it's more than those parts that define the sound quality (amp power, capacitors used, etc).

I don't trust that graph overly much - Sony A810 and S610 are also the same players in a different housing with slightly different features - how could they sound this different? And seeing a Creative player near the top is curious (I don't know how the new Zen sounds, but it has to be way better than older Creative players to earn that place in this graph).
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Old 03-01-2008, 10:52 AM
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Because the sound quality does not come only from the chipset.
There are explainations for every player but it's hard for me to translate into english:
  • iriver clix 2 (notre test) : Sortie très propre, son extrêmement dynamique, EQ perso disponible
  • Sony NWZ-A810 (notre test) : Très léger souffle, son bien équilibré, 2 EQ perso disponibles
  • Cowon D2 (notre test) : Léger souffle, son dynamique, bonne séparation des instruments, EQ perso disponible
  • Samsung P2 (notre test) : Sortie assez propre, pratiquement pas de souffle, son dynamique, EQ perso disponible
  • Creative Zen (notre test) : Léger souffle, son équilibré et dynamique, EQ perso disponible
  • Microsoft Zune 1 & 2 (notre test) : Quelques interférence durant la navigation, peu de souffle, son bien équilibré, pas d'EQ perso
  • Sony NWZ-S610 (notre test) : Léger souffle pouvant être gênant parfois, bon rendu global, 2 EQ perso disponibles
  • Cowon iAudio 7 (notre test) : Souffle, sifflement et interférences à cause de l'écran, EQ perso disponible
  • Apple iPod classic (notre test) : Léger souffle, quelques interférences en pause, son pas très dynamique, pas d'EQ perso
  • Apple iPod nano (notre test) : Souffle modéré, sortie peu puissante, aigue moyennement précis et grave pataud, pas d'EQ perso
  • Apple iPod touch (notre test) : Plus de souffle que sur l'iPod classic mais pas d'interférences, manque de séparation des instruments, aigu pas précis et grave pataud, son peu dynamique, pas d'EQ
  • Archos 105 (notre test) : Souffle, interférences et grésillements, son très moyen, EQ perso disponible
edit: I try to translate with a good dictionnary lol
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Old 03-01-2008, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lebellium View Post
Because the sound quality does not come only from the chipset.
Yeah, that's what I meant above... however, I did not hear that extreme of a difference between the 6-7 Cowon players I know, as the graph suggests for the D2 and i7. Furthermore, the A810 and S610 are exactly the same hardware and functionality - except the radio chip, screen, and housing: http://www.pocketables.net/2007/10/review-sony-a81.html - so I doubt the A810 can sound that much better than the S610. Were these tests made with the stock earbuds or with proper phones? RMAA results would be very nice as well.
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  #9  
Old 03-01-2008, 11:20 AM
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Of course the test has been made with high quality intras-earphones such as Earsonics EM2 IFI, UE Triple.FI 10 Pro, Westone UM2 and so and so forth
  • iriver clix 2 (notre test) : very clean output, extremely dynamic sound, perso EQ available <o></o>
  • Sony NWZ-A810 (notre test) : A little bit background noise, well balanced sound, 2 EQ perso available<o></o>
  • Cowon D2 (notre test) : A bit background noise, dynamic sound, clear dividing line between musical instruments, EQ perso available<o></o>
  • Samsung P2 (notre test) : quite clear output, almost no background noise, dynamic sound, EQ perso available<o></o>
  • Creative Zen (notre test) : A bit background noise, well-balanced and dynamic sound, EQ perso available<o></o>
  • Microsoft Zune 1 & 2 (HDD) (notre test) : some interferences during navigation, little background noise, well-balanced sound, no perso EQ<o></o>
  • Sony NWZ-S610 (notre test) : Little background noise which can be a nuisance sometimes, good global rendering, 2 EQ perso available<o></o>
  • Cowon iAudio 7 (notre test) : Background noise, whistling noises and interferences due to the screen, EQ perso available<o></o>
  • Apple iPod classic (notre test) : little background noise, some interferences on « pause » , not very dynamic sound, no perso EQ <o></o>
  • Apple iPod nano (notre test) : moderate background noise, not powerful output, not accurate high notes and lumpish low notes, no perso EQ<o></o>
  • Apple iPod touch (notre test) : more background noise than iPod classic but no interferences, lack of dividing line between instruments, not accurate high notes and lumpish low notes, no dynamic sound, no EQ <o></o>
  • Archos 105 (notre test) : background noise, interferences and crackling, bad sound, perso EQ available<o></o>
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  #10  
Old 03-01-2008, 05:53 PM
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AnalogBalrog AnalogBalrog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lebellium View Post
According to sound quality:




I rather trust our generationmp3 team
Nike_T is probably right!
Wow. That's quite the graph!

Thanks everyone for your input. Looks like I need to think about the Clix2. Anybody want to buy a P2 4GB?
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  #11  
Old 03-01-2008, 07:59 PM
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I think perhaps the fairest test to prove the sound quality of any device is to listen to it with a decent headphone amp. You were comparing songs on Beyer headphones which are high impedance and rather hard to drive unamped? The difference in sound quality you perceived is possibly due to the strength of the amplifier onboard the device and not the actual capabilities of the device itself.
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Old 03-01-2008, 08:57 PM
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I disagree with that graph as well, I have a Zen Vision:M, which is usually better rated than Creative Zen, sound-quality wise, and the ZV:M just doesn't sound nearly as good as my D2 (same headphones, same amp).
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Old 03-01-2008, 10:31 PM
musichound musichound is offline
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I say throw all the tests out the window and purchase/keep what sounds best for you. If you are unhappy with the P2, exchange it for a Zune.
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  #14  
Old 03-02-2008, 03:47 AM
iLLuSionS iLLuSionS is offline
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yeah, swap it for another zune if u want.

i found the p2 sq pretty decent. but hey, this is from their headphone jack out... just wait till someone starts making custom LOD cables... thats when p2 will start to shine (probably)

and btw, that chart isnt even the LOWEST, ipod nano, w/e else isnt even there, and a lot of other players arent, so i mean, those are rough estimates.
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  #15  
Old 03-02-2008, 04:08 AM
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There are only the players the stuff had when they did the test.
Generationmp3 is not a company and does not have money to buy all players available on the market to test them together...
They could have added other players they tested before but it would have been difficult to remember how the player sounded! (and it would'nt have been credible)

And it depends on your material.
It is normal if you use default earphones that you don't hear differences between players.
But with high sensitive intra-earphones you can hear background noise, you can notice all the outputs are not the same ...
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  #16  
Old 03-02-2008, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sassafras View Post
I think perhaps the fairest test to prove the sound quality of any device is to listen to it with a decent headphone amp. You were comparing songs on Beyer headphones which are high impedance and rather hard to drive unamped? The difference in sound quality you perceived is possibly due to the strength of the amplifier onboard the device and not the actual capabilities of the device itself.
Any recommendations on an amp that pairs well with the P2? I'd love to keep the P2 and your comments about ampage makes perfect sense.
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  #17  
Old 03-02-2008, 10:04 AM
death__machine death__machine is offline
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off-topic but if the chipset in the p2 and d2 is same then why does the quality differ?
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  #18  
Old 03-02-2008, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lebellium View Post
According to sound quality:




I rather trust our generationmp3 team
Nike_T is probably right!
I have a problem with this graph/rating. I own a Clix2 and gave it to my sister when i got the P2. I used the same earphones (Mylar XB) listening to the same file. The PS2 sounds better than the Clix2 when using Samsung's DNSe. It has more dynamic range than the Clix2 for sure. I love the DNSe sounds enhancement! That has been my personal observation.
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  #19  
Old 03-02-2008, 12:42 PM
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iriver cares for their sound a lot... i know this cus i had a iriver H320 (came out before the first ipod vids) which i think still beats the p2 in terms of SQ
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Old 03-02-2008, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tripleT View Post
I have a problem with this graph/rating. I own a Clix2 and gave it to my sister when i got the P2. I used the same earphones (Mylar XB) listening to the same file. The PS2 sounds better than the Clix2 when using Samsung's DNSe. It has more dynamic range than the Clix2 for sure. I love the DNSe sounds enhancement! That has been my personal observation.
You didn't read the commentary.
  • iriver clix 2 (notre test) : very clean output, extremely dynamic sound, perso EQ available <o></o>
  • Samsung P2 (notre test) : quite clear output, almost no background noise, dynamic sound, EQ perso available
I think there is a problem with the "sound quality" definition for most people here.

There is no big difference between chipsets.
An Iriver clix 2 is not 3 times better than an ipod because of the chipstet!
The quality depends on the quality of the output, if there is a background noise, if the sound is dynamic...
The Iriver Clix 2 is the only mp3-player currently on the market which has a PERFECT OUTPUT. You can use any earphones, as sensible as you want, there is NO background noise.

And the quality does not come from DNSe effects
Ask a purist what he thinks of your DNSe effects lol

To affirm that the sound quality of the YP-P2 is better than the Clix 2 because of DNSe is very .... hmmm.... daring?
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