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  #1  
Old 02-22-2008, 01:57 AM
FestinaXL FestinaXL is offline
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Default Image of Zen Touch Harddisk

Another day, another try....
1. I've got one Zen Touch with the well known firmware problem. I wasn't able to fixed it because my own PC runs with Win2000 an so the Firmware-Update fails. Benath I haven't luck with tryng on a Win XP notebook of a friend.
2. I've bought a (used) second Zen Touch with the actual firmware 2.xxx.

My idea to get the first Zen Touch running:
Put the HD of the second Zen into an USB-Enclosure and create a HD-Image. Of course Win2000 cannot recognized the partition, but with some Software does the Job and creates an 19 GB Raw copy of drive 2.

My problem is to write the image back to the first harddrive (also within an enclosure), because the software doesn't support writing images to HD.

Does somebody knows a raw-copy-software...copying HDs block by block or writing raw images ????
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  #2  
Old 07-08-2008, 09:11 PM
faileas faileas is offline
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before you go any further, note the DD is a VERY VERY powerful tool, which could TOTALLY mess up a hard drive if used improperly. be VERY SURE to know what you're doing before you use DD on anything irreplaceable.

Now after the requisite warnings have been given, abd i don't need to worry about my concience DD will do the job. Personally i tend to favour the version with the GUI on the helix live CD (while its a bootable linux disk. it has some very good windows tools.) though any linux live cd would have it, and there are ports for windows. once again, use with caution, but it does exactly what you want
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  #3  
Old 07-09-2008, 12:14 PM
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faileas: First, welcome to ABI. Second, you may want to watch posting in some older threads. The OP hasn't been back to ABI since the day they posted this thread.

Now with that said. Since we are talking about the Xtra here, this may be of some use. Besides just being able to image the drive or partitions, the hard part really comes into play when trying to be able to read or extract the data needed. Since the user portion of the data seems to reside on Creative's proprietary filesystem (CFS) partition (not the first volume: minifs), this would be the partition you would focus on.

In relation to DD and imaging..... It was reported in one of the links below that someone was able to use Roadkil's DiskImg software to successfully obtain an image. I'm not sure if that will still work or not.

More info here, here, here, and here.

Quote:
Harddisk partitions:
--------------------

This info comes from quetacoatl at the Nomadness.net forum.
The Creative devcies have a hard disk which is divided into
tow separate volumes.

At sector 0 of the disk is a master boot record, then on
sector 1, a filesystem called "minifs" begins. This has
clusters of 8 sectors and clusterchains, cluster allocation
bitmaps, root directory etc. "minifs" has a root directory
that can hold up to 255 entries. No file in this file system
can be larger than 6 MB. The "minifs" filesystem has a
hierarchical directory structure.

Right after the "minifs" volume comes a "CFS" volume (We
assume this is "Creative File System".) which has clusters
of 16 sectors and its own clusterchains, root directory and
cluster allocation bitmaps.

It is suspected that CFS is modeled similarly to the Linux
Ext2 filesystem (though different).
Taken from here.
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Old 07-09-2008, 12:22 PM
musichound musichound is offline
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Holy long lost threads, Batman.
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  #5  
Old 07-09-2008, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
It is suspected that CFS is modeled similarly to the Linux
Ext2 filesystem (though different).
That actually makes a lot of sense, since the EXT filesystems don't require defragging or any other user maintenance. I'm sure this is universal across all of Creative's MTP players.
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  #6  
Old 07-09-2008, 04:57 PM
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Yeah, it helps with minimizing the seek time especially when reading large data files like videos. Ext2's block data structure would make sense too with how the OS handles its databasing.

Quote:
I'm sure this is universal across all of Creative's MTP players.
Yeah maybe...... I wonder if the newer flash based Zen's are still using it. Hopefully it doesn't use the Ext3 with journaling since that would seem like a bad way to go for using with flash memory since it requires the use of writing to the journal all the time.
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  #7  
Old 07-09-2008, 10:50 PM
faileas faileas is offline
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oops. i guess i'm used to more active forums, pardon the thread necromancy ;p. I'd joined up to check up on some other stuff, and felt the need to be helpful ^^
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  #8  
Old 07-10-2008, 12:26 PM
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No problem. The Creative's forum's are plenty active. The Xrta, being a discontinued player and over 5 years old.... not as much.
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  #9  
Old 09-24-2008, 06:08 PM
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sergioska sergioska is offline
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Default Filesystem problem!!!!!!!!!!Help me please

Hi, I have the same problem! The hard disk of My Zen Touch 20G don' t have the original filesystem now, and for this i can't fix the firmware.
Please, someone know how can i resolve fix the filesystem or how can resolve the problem?
Thank you in advance.
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  #10  
Old 09-24-2008, 06:28 PM
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Hello sergioska. Welcome. What exactly is the problem you are having? The only way to create the file system on the Touch is to reinstall the drive back into the Touch and do a format from within Recovery Mode.
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Old 09-25-2008, 03:36 AM
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sergioska sergioska is offline
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Thank you for the reply. The hard drive of my zen touch has been formatted with partition magic (i did not know that the filesystem was different: no fat32, no ntfs, etc ...) and now, when i connect the hard drive in zen touch, in recovery mode, if i try to format all from recovery mený, i get a message "formatting ...", but nothing.
Moreover if i connect the zen touch to my pc, it did not recognize.
Instead, I try to connect another hard disk (formatted in fat32) on zen touch, and the pc recognize it.
In this case, if i try to format form recovery mený, i get a message "harddisk problem".
What could be the problem? Is there a solution?
Help me please!.
Bye

Maybe i have the solution ...
Please, there is someone that can put online the first 50M of the raw image of own zen touch disk drive?
Please help me!!! Thanks

Hey ... Nobody help me?
It could be a solution for more people that have this problem, and i will post my progress here.
Thanks

Last edited by BobbyRS; 09-27-2008 at 12:19 PM.
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  #12  
Old 09-27-2008, 12:35 PM
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I would try deleting the partition, then recreate a primary partition, but do not format at all. Then install it in the Touch and try Formatting from within Recovery Mode.

The Touch should be recognized by the OS properly while booted into Recovery Mode. If it is not, I would take a closer look as to why it isn't. Did you last have the PlaysForSure firmware installed or were you still using the regular firmware versions?

The firmware is installed on the hard drive. The 50MB partition you are seeing is the partition set aside on the hard drive for the firmware to be loaded. When it shows as just a 50MB partition, it is due to not having any firmware loaded. Once the firmware is loaded, the 50MB partition will no longer show due to the Touch having an Operating System.
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  #13  
Old 09-28-2008, 07:38 AM
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sergioska sergioska is offline
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Thank you for the answer BobbyRS.
The drive of my zen touch at now is without filesystem and without partition.
In a original and working drive, there is a first partition of 20M, where run the OS of zen touch, and a second partition where there are the datas.
My idea is write byte-to-byte the first 40/50M (raw image) of an original drive to my drive. After i'll can try to recover the drive with "recovery all" from recovery mený. But for this i need of the 40/50M raw image of a working drive with the right filesystem and the right partitions. You know?
Sorry for my english, maybe I can not explain well ...
Bye.
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  #14  
Old 09-28-2008, 09:38 AM
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No problem. Maybe check out this site for some information on alternative ways to get the firmware loaded on the Zen.
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  #15  
Old 09-28-2008, 10:45 AM
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Thank you. I' ll see on this site.
Bye
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  #16  
Old 09-28-2008, 11:43 AM
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No problem. Good luck!
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