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  #1  
Old 01-05-2008, 09:11 AM
GoldenEar GoldenEar is offline
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Default Strange Noise with the P2

Hi everybody,
anybody out there to help me with this strange problem with the P2?

I tested the 8 GB version of the P2 (firmware 2.08) with Creative´s EP630s, the Samsung in ear phone delivered with the device and a Senheiser HD 590 headphone.

With all headphones I heared a kind of hissing or sizzling noise, especially when the music was not loud (like piano solo or guitar solo).
This noise appeared also when I pressed the return button of the menu in the left buttom corner. it lasted a little bit longer than the sound itself.

It was extremly loud with the Creative in ears and still rather loud with the Samsung in ears and the Sennheiser. In all cases it was too loud to listen to the MP3s without feeling disturbed.

I listened to the same MP3s with an iRiver U10 and there was no noise at all.

Is this only a problem of the combination of the headphones and the P2 (like posted in a thread below) and if yes, which headphones are the right ones for the P2 or is this a problem of the device?

Any help would be appreciated.

Regards
GoldenEar
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  #2  
Old 01-05-2008, 10:39 AM
Dinko Dinko is offline
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Unfortunately this seems to be a new feature with new Samsung players. The P2 and the T10 both have this characteristic. Previous Samsung gadgets and players from other manufacturers do not.
I'm not sure if it's Bluetooth circuitry interference, but the static noise is really annoying.

It's inaudible during most pop/rock songs, but the moment you listen to something with a greater dynamic range (classical for example) it's painfully obvious.

It also happens whether you listen to WMA, WMA-DRM, mp3, regardless of bit rate. Some earphones ampliphy it and make it unbeareable, but it's always there regardless of earphones.

I reported the issue to Samsung, and got an email back saying that the issue has been forwarded for consideration.
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  #3  
Old 01-05-2008, 11:03 AM
GoldenEar GoldenEar is offline
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Thanks Dinko for the fast reply.
If Samsung does not fix that problem somehow, it is a showstopper in my eyes (better: in my ears).

I tried some other songs like pure vocals or ballads with more or less instruments from my MP3 collection and I downloaded some similar songs from the Samsung media portal.
The noise is always present in this songs, in some cases you can not listen to the music due to the background hissing.

Don´t get me wrong, I really like the device, it is a real cool player, but it seems to have a real problem.

I am a little bit curious, that beside one other owner no one here in the forum noticed this problem, even in the review of the P2 there is no word about it.

Anyobdy else with or without this issue?

Regards
GoldenEar
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  #4  
Old 01-05-2008, 11:37 AM
MrGroover MrGroover is offline
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Quote:
Senheiser HD 590
Well, I have those head phones as well, but I don't hear any disturbing noise... At which level was the volume set? I tested both with 12-15 and 25, but there was no difference, except that 25 was louder. Oh, and I don't use any DNSe effects or have tuned the master EQ.

But there have been people that killed there P2 by just updating the FW -> hardware issue, but only on some devices. Maybe you got a bad P2 yourself?
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  #5  
Old 01-05-2008, 11:47 AM
GoldenEar GoldenEar is offline
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Hi MrGroover,

I tried also different volume levels and EQ/DNSe settings/efffects (also completely without one of them or without both) and the hissing was always there.

With the Sennheiser HD590 (apologizes to the missing "n" in my previous post ) the hiissing was not that loud compared to the EP630 and the Samsung.


Did you try in ears also?

Regards
GoldenEar
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  #6  
Old 01-05-2008, 01:37 PM
swy81 swy81 is offline
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Perhaps I'm deaf but, I've never heard any type of hissing with my P2. I've tried the stock phones, my JVC marshmallows, etc. No hissing at all whether the volume was low or high.

Had to be the bearer of bad news but, perhaps, a defective P2?
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  #7  
Old 01-05-2008, 03:09 PM
MrGroover MrGroover is offline
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@GoldenEar: Well, I mainly use the supplied Samsung in ear phones. I only have some pretty cheap Sony ones, and with both of them, I didn't notice anything. All the background noise I hear comes from the audio files... They aren't ripped CDs, mainly recoreded D'n'B sets, some taken in studios. But all of them are MP3, so thats where all the noise comes from...
Besides this noise, the sound of my P2 is clear. You probably should visit a store that has the P2 available and where you can play with it. Take your headphones/in-earphones with you and check the P2... This is what I have done, when I bought my P2. Of course, there are no headphones attached to the displayed devices, so I took my own (the cheap Sony ones) and tested with the preloaded videos and music files. So, I tested actually two devices and all of them were fine...
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  #8  
Old 01-05-2008, 03:36 PM
GoldenEar GoldenEar is offline
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Thanks MrGroover.

I took my P2 back to the dealer and will have a new one on monday.
In my case it was clear, that the noise came from the P2, because the same MP3s sounded very well on an other MP3 player - without any noise.

As far as I can see, there are four possible reasons for the background noise.

1. Defective device (we will know on monday).
2. Headphones with high sensitivity, as posted in a thread in this forum some days ago (in this case, I will return the P2)
3. Result of changes in the EQ/DNSe settings (would not be acceptable, because these effects should change the music and should not produce hissing).
4. Problems with firmware upgrade (not most likely. We will kniow on monday also, because I will have to upgrade the new device to 2.08 and so I can compare the sound before and after the firmware upgrade).

Somehow I have the feeling, that this is not the problem of only a few defective devices. I guess, this is a basic hardware problem which may be caused by electronical interferences or by special combinations of the P2 with some headphones.

We will know more soon.

Regards
GoldenEar
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  #9  
Old 01-05-2008, 05:55 PM
rsasp rsasp is offline
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mmm yeah i heard that sound when the song is not playing, other than that, no weird distorted sound.
btw I'm using the stock ear bud.
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  #10  
Old 01-06-2008, 12:31 AM
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sassafras sassafras is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenEar
2. Headphones with high sensitivity, as posted in a thread in this forum some days ago (in this case, I will return the P2)
Well, there is a difference between a loud static hissing and a constant background noise. I have come to expect some level of background noise (ie white noise) associated with the electronic circuitry of whatever device I am listening to. It's normal. I think you understand what I am talking about. Highly sensitive phones make it more obvious, but it shouldn't be obtrusive. If it happens on this player for you much more pronounced than on another player, it is probable that you either have a defective player or just a really picky ear.
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  #11  
Old 01-06-2008, 05:26 AM
MrGroover MrGroover is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenEar
Problems with firmware upgrade (not most likely. We will kniow on monday also, because I will have to upgrade the new device to 2.08 and so I can compare the sound before and after the firmware upgrade).
Well, in my case, I tried with 1.20 EU and KR, and with 2.08 KR but there was no difference. The sound has always been great... In another thread regarding BT problems, it helped to reset and/or format the device... You don't have a P2 until monday, right? If you still have your defective device, you could test that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenEar
Somehow I have the feeling, that this is not the problem of only a few defective devices. I guess, this is a basic hardware problem which may be caused by electronical interferences or by special combinations of the P2 with some headphones.
Well, from you posts I'd assume those noises were pretty loud with your device. In this case, there would have been much more people reporting this problem, if your assumption of this being a common problem...
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  #12  
Old 01-06-2008, 09:01 AM
Dinko Dinko is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGroover View Post
Well, from you posts I'd assume those noises were pretty loud with your device. In this case, there would have been much more people reporting this problem, if your assumption of this being a common problem...
Not necessarily. Depends on how much attention you pay to the music, your listening environment and, especially, the type of music you listen to.
I'd say that with 95% of pop/rock/alternative the sizzling static will not be obvious to the vast majority of listeners. Note though that GoldenEar mentioned "when the music was not loud (like piano solo or guitar solo)". Find a really quiet song, or something with a dynamic range that's pretty wide (Pink Floyd, Neverending White Lights, classical, film score...) and it's there.

The reason I would also claim that this is something that's more common than reported so far is that I also encountered it with Samsung's YP-T10 - so it's much harder to blame it on a defective P2 unit, unless by some freak accident I ended up with two defective units of two different players.
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  #13  
Old 01-06-2008, 10:32 AM
GoldenEar GoldenEar is offline
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Hi all,
Thanks for your posts.

Yes, McGroover, I do not have a device here, but tomorrow I have the new one and for sure I will keep you informed.

Sassafras did a good separation between "constant background noise" and "loud static hissing".
Now, usually I listen to Jazz, R&B, Soul and good quality music from all other genres.
As long as I listen to music with many instruments and permanent sound, I do hear nearly nothing from any background noise.
But I used a song of a gregorian choir also (just for testing...:-)) and some other songs which had some stillness between the verses and not so many instruments. And in this cases a permanent background noise was present. I could hear it during the music and for sure duriing the breaks. It was too loud, to enjoy the songs.
This permanent background noise was absolutely not present when I listened to the same songs with the U10 from Iriver.
So I am surre, taht it was no sound coming from the MP3 itself.

Additionally: When I pressed the "Return"-button of the menu, there is a sound like coming from a small bell. You all know it. During this sound and a short time after there was this noise again. When the sound was over, the backround nosie was away.

So the backround noise is only present, as long as music or sounds are played and - like Dinko said - it depends on the kind of music you are listening to.

Maybe you can test it for yourself using the "return"-button sound with different levels of loudness.
But this problem should not turn to Voodoo :-). The noise was really loud with my device at a normal loudness level - not only, when loudness was turned to maximum.

Regards
GoldenEar
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  #14  
Old 01-06-2008, 11:08 AM
MrGroover MrGroover is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinko
Find a really quiet song, or something with a dynamic range that's pretty wide (Pink Floyd, Neverending White Lights, classical, film score...) and it's there.
Would be nice if you could name a track that is free to download. Free music can be downloaded from jamendo.com. This way, people having the reported problems could name a track where the problem occurs pretty audible. This site also features some higher quality OGG files (their tags are partly working with the P2), so no dependence on MP3. Another thing is that no one has to do anything illegal...

Edit: to GoldenEar: Well, yes, I can hear a little noise when the back sound is played, but the noise is only audible with this file... Even the 'forward bell' sounds clear, so in my case, I'd blame that on the 'return bell' sound, since I only have it with this file...
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  #15  
Old 01-06-2008, 11:57 AM
GoldenEar GoldenEar is offline
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@ MrGroover

okay, so good to know, that my ears are still o.k. and you do hear the sound also, even if it is not as loud as I hear it.

I will test beside the Creative 630s the Sony MX90 tomorrow, to check, if there are bigger differences between different headphones.
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  #16  
Old 01-06-2008, 12:41 PM
abaez abaez is offline
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I have the same problem, the hissing is similar to the hissing you'd hear on a cassette tape way back when. I thought it was because of my headphones or the player as well, but I may try to exchange it to see. I just hate that I have to reload all my music again.
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  #17  
Old 01-06-2008, 02:42 PM
lazarus lazarus is offline
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I hadn't noticed any hissing or anything (either background white noise or whatever) on my player, with either the ear buds, or through bluetooth. I listen mainly to barbershop and rock, but there's some classical in there (James Gallway: awesome flutist). Incidentally, good barbershop is what I like using to test the response of players, amps, and speakers, as it often pushes the limits more than a lot of styles (a bit surprising from only four voices )

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  #18  
Old 01-07-2008, 01:02 PM
GoldenEar GoldenEar is offline
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Hi everybody,
As promised, here are the results of the second P2 testing in matters of background noise, tested with a new factory sealed P2, 4 GB.

Beside the Samsung in ear headphones, which came with the device, I tried the Creative EP 630 and the Sony MDR EX 90.

I compared the MP3s with and without the different sound effects of the P2 (which did not cause a major change regarding the problem discussed here) and compared the sound of the P2 to a iRiver U10.

I used different mp3s from different sources (i.e. exisiting songs from my mp3 collection and songs I downloaded from the Samsung mp3 web portal).

So here are the results:
All the menu sound effects of the P2 come along with a more or less loud crackling noise - at least on the two P2 devices I had in hands.
All MP3s have a constant background noise. The noise ends, when the song ends. So it seems, that it may come from the MP3s itself, but compared to the Iriver U10 it is very loud. Maybe this noise is filtered by other devices.

As described already above, I heard it extremely loud during some guitar or piano solos or during acapella songs without any instruments.
I could not hear it, when I played "normal" pop or rock music, except if there were silent parts in this songs.
Beside this there is also a kind of crackling during songs, when they fade in or out.

To check, where the noise comes from, I took some MP3s and did a noise cleaning with the wave studio from Creative Labs (though I am not a fan of audio cleaning). After that, the background noise was a little bit better, but still too loud.
The crackling was still there. So for now, I am not sure, that the recorded MP3 songs are the reason for this noise, because it appears independendly from where the songs come from.

The crackling and the constant background noise is very loud with the EP630 and not so loud with the both other ear phones. But loud enough to hear it.

The crackling sounds a little bit like a very small bag of chips, which is pushed for the moment when the menu sound stops or the music fades in or out. The background hissing remembers me somehow to the background noise of the good old compact cassette.

I am most concerend about the crackling effect. For now it is not clear to me, whether this is a problem of recorded menu sounds or a "feature" of the electronic which is working in the P2. If so, this may be a reason for the crackling effects during Mp3 play also.
The P2 is for sure one of the coolest MP3 players around - I really like this device and it sounds very good.
But the noise effects during the "silent" moments of songs are annoying.

Due to the fact, that it appears on the second P2, it is for sure not a problem of one defective device.So I will write to Samsung to see, what they have to tell about it.

I will keep you informed.

Regards
GoldenEar
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  #19  
Old 01-07-2008, 08:39 PM
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sassafras sassafras is offline
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It seems as if, after extensive research, you simply have too discerning of an ear. I like to call myself an audiophile (though in no way do I have perfect pitch or terribly high range hearing) and I have noticed the background noise on the P2. I would not describe it as a crunching sounds as much as the general background hiss associated with electronic instruments. The beep sounds definitely have a much louder static noise than the background during songs, but that's probably attributable to a bad source than anything to do with the hardware.

If it is bothersome to you, I would just recommend that you purchase a different player because it seems that the P2 will not work for you. By the way, have you ever had your hearing range mapped by an Audiologist?
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  #20  
Old 01-09-2008, 05:50 PM
GoldenEar GoldenEar is offline
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Hi sassafras,

thx for answering.
I guess my ears are very good and I may hear some very high frequencies better than some others, even if I did not had a hearing range mapping by an Audiologist.

But the noise I was talking about was also heard by some of my friends.

Some P2 owners found out, that there is a static noise coming from the display and psoted there experience in this forum. I guess, this may be the reason for the problem.
For sure it does not cause the permanent background hissing, but it may be the reason for the strange static effects, which I hear during the slient parts of the MP3s.

I will try to find that out.

Regards
GoldenEar
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