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  #1  
Old 12-24-2007, 09:31 AM
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Default RockBox build comparision - pro / cons

Hello all,

I am curious to find a comparision of the different builds (cpchan, chrisjs, digibuild, kugel).

I have a Sansa e250 and have not yet decided to flash and have Rockbox.
I wish to understand the differences of the builds first. I am trying to find a thread that would list the differences of all 4 builds, instead of researching all individually. Perhaps if someone would mind taking a moment to state the facts . . . I did a search and could not find such thread. If there is one, then could you post the link please.

Of course, I understand it all goes down to details and user preferences. My goal is to find the subtle differences between the builds and make a decision. What is it that you like for the particular build that is not on any of the others.


Thanks for you help.
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  #2  
Old 12-24-2007, 03:26 PM
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Well, I'll try to be unbiased since one of the builds is mine.

cpchan: This build is generally the most complete. It has almost any useful patch out there, and a lot of people use it.

chrisjs: chrisjs uses an automation script so that his build is always up-to-date with the latest official SVN code. This means frequent updates. He includes a lot of patches too - almost as much as cpchan. The downside to auto-updates is that SVN changes aren't reviewed before they go into the build.

digibuild: This is my build. I update it less frequently than most others, but (here comes my bias) I think this makes it more stable than other builds too. I update it when there are important changes in SVN. It doesn't have as many patches, which I think keeps it simple and stable. I also include a lot of extras with my build such as themes, fonts, and configuration files, so you don't have to go download them all yourself from all over the place.

kugel: This is the newest custom build out there, but it's becoming quite popular. I haven't tried it or researched it that much, so I can't comment on it too much, but from what I've heard it seems like a mix of my build and cpchan's build.

Hope I was fair to everyone and didn't make any mistakes. That's pretty much the way I understand things. Hope it helps. It's a matter of personal preference really; choose whichever one works for you.
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  #3  
Old 12-24-2007, 04:03 PM
Llorean Llorean is offline
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What about

official - This build has the least optional patches (specifically none). This means that you're unlikely to find your WPSes unable to work, or features disappear because patches go out of sync and people are unable to sync them. This build is also the only officially supported, meaning if you wish to ask for help in the Rockbox forums, you MUST be using this one.

Because it's the official build, features almost never disappear from it, and the introduction of new features will rarely or ever necessitate the removal of something else that conflicts with it. Any WPS that works with this build, should be safe to expect to work for fairly long term.
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Old 12-26-2007, 09:23 AM
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Thanks digi for the quick & dirty.

Llorean, help me out 'WPS'? What does the acronym stand for? Seems official isn't really that great. While it is the Rockbox officially supported build, (IMHO) the further tweaking flavors of the 4 aforementioned builds seems to have taken it to another step with more applications/functions.

THANKS AGAIN ALL. I think I will begin with digi's build first . . . only because you responded first and gave me your unbiased info. =) I'll then move to cpchan and finally kugel.

In regards to the chrisjs build, the auto SVN updates are nice but as stated there is no testing prior to build.
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  #5  
Old 12-26-2007, 11:28 AM
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WPS is while playing screen. It has all your song info, and album art now that that was committed.

You won't be able to use more WPSes on the official build though. Now that album art was committed many more will work, but to resize it correctly so it looks good you need a custom build with the bmpresize patch.
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  #6  
Old 12-26-2007, 02:00 PM
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Note that you can't display all the wps and themes available on www.rockbox-themes.org with digerati's build, since it's lacking of most patches needed for those themes.

Those themes will work fine on cpchan's, chrisjs and my build.
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  #7  
Old 12-26-2007, 04:39 PM
Llorean Llorean is offline
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Most of the custom builds don't really add much (or often anything) in the way of music functionality. The vast majority of patches tend toward either Plugins, or "WPS features that have been rejected by the official build because they aren't implemented in the right way, so any WPS currently using them will never be compatible, and when the official build implements its way of doing it, it'll break all the custom builds too"

The problem with these custom builds is that they encourage people to develop WPSes that _will_ be broken, rather than encouraging people to work on implementing features a way that's more flexible and/or more efficient. Often the unofficial builds are buggier, or show degraded battery life as well, due to the implementations of these patches, and the focus on "making it work" rather than "making it work the right way."
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  #8  
Old 12-26-2007, 05:37 PM
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They encourage people to make themes looking more beatiful. I also hate how you reject anything just because in "some" (obvously far far away) future so called ViewPorts will come. I just didn't see anything directed to viewports yet.
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Old 12-26-2007, 07:35 PM
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Do you volunteer, here and now, to do 100% of the work to remove and undo all changes made by all patches that will be replaced by viewports, as well as maintaining a parallel codebase so that viewports can be implemented and applied in place of these patches?

Unless the answer is "Yes", I really don't see why we should add patches that simply mean MORE work when doing things the right way later.

Beautiful themes that won't work in 3 or 6 or 12 months are still beautiful themes that at the time won't work.

One can make quite beautiful themes for the official build. Yes, they're a little more restricted, but honestly, all you do is maintain a forked build that you know, already, will one day be in direct conflict with the official build.

So, at the point that viewports go in, are you going to revert the changes from viewports and maintain a build with all the patches instead and viewports removed, or volunteer to adapt the hundreds of WPSes you've encouraged by not telling people, absolutely clearly, that these WPS tags will never be compatible with SVN Rockbox? Or do you intend to just abandon all your current users and tell them "You chose to use this build, deal with it, your WPSes won't work any more."
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Old 12-26-2007, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kugel View Post
They encourage people to make themes looking more beatiful. I also hate how you reject anything just because in "some" (obvously far far away) future so called ViewPorts will come. I just didn't see anything directed to viewports yet.

The Beauty of the WPS is not based on what patches they use but on the skill of the graphics artist. It's how the creator uses colors that blend and the position of elements.

EDIT: Oh and to the guy above: OUCH!!!
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  #11  
Old 12-27-2007, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kugel View Post
I just didn't see anything directed to viewports yet.
http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/vie...iewPortsDesign
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  #12  
Old 12-27-2007, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Llorean View Post
So, at the point that viewports go in, are you going to revert the changes from viewports and maintain a build with all the patches instead and viewports removed, or volunteer to adapt the hundreds of WPSes you've encouraged by not telling people, absolutely clearly, that these WPS tags will never be compatible with SVN Rockbox? Or do you intend to just abandon all your current users and tell them "You chose to use this build, deal with it, your WPSes won't work any more."
At the time ViewPorts gets in, I'll totally support it, dropping all patches that conflict etc. However, until that happens, I don't want to miss some themes that require certain patches.

Please note, that the build is mainly made for me. If it's needed to abandon my users because of ViewPorts I'll do that.

Just look at the e200 keymap change. I was asked many times to keep the old one, but since I don't want to go too far away from the SVN in that aspect, I choosed to use the new keymap. I'm fine with this one, and if my users aren't, they either have to live with it or choose another build.
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  #13  
Old 12-29-2007, 11:35 AM
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Will Viewports give rockbox the ability to simulate rolling menus like the Sansa does? OF uses a different image for each menu item, allowing you to make it look like a rolling menu? I would love to be able to do something like that in RockBox. Then we would see some really neat themes made.
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  #14  
Old 12-29-2007, 11:53 AM
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The idea has been discussed, but it was turned down because it would be a waste of processing power and memory. Having a separate image for each menu item is extremely ineffecient.
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Old 12-29-2007, 02:08 PM
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So will Rockbox's menu structure continue to be so strict and rigid, as it is now? IMHO this is RockBox's only major drawback. I find myself going back to the OF more often just because of how it looks and feels.
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  #16  
Old 12-29-2007, 03:45 PM
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Rockbox isn't targeted at people who favour form over function, frankly.
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  #17  
Old 12-29-2007, 04:23 PM
ViriiGuy ViriiGuy is offline
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well gee pardon me.

Form and Functionality go hand in hand.
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  #18  
Old 12-29-2007, 04:48 PM
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You can have one without the other just fine. Rockbox will not sacrifices functionality for form, though. One has to take a priority, and you're asking for "Form" to be added at the cost of functionality and we prefer "Functionality" at the cost of form.
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Old 12-29-2007, 06:35 PM
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amen
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  #20  
Old 12-29-2007, 07:12 PM
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You can do so much more in rockbox than you can in the OF anyway. Get a good theme. You can customize icons, you can totally change the look of the WPS, you can use albumart, and so much more.
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