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  #1  
Old 11-04-2007, 09:21 AM
htguy htguy is offline
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Default How low can the volume be?

I am considering the clip as a replacement for my Muvo N200. Attracting factors are: tacticle buttons, sleep timer, msc mode. But since I often listen to books at night I need to know the following.

a)How low is the lowest volume setting with in-ear phones like the CX300?
b)If you play a audiobook with multiple files (in a playlist) and use sleep shutdown, do the player resume the playlist when you power back on?

What I really like with my Creative is the play-one track and then idle-shutdown mode and that I can skip folder without looking at the display.
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  #2  
Old 11-04-2007, 09:47 PM
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The Clip's lowest volume stetting, before absolute inaudibility, is still rather clear - but this 'clarity' is highly dependent on the quality or your earspeakers....

Though admittedly, I'm not exactly sure what you're asking here.
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  #3  
Old 11-05-2007, 02:32 AM
htguy htguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post
The Clip's lowest volume stetting, before absolute inaudibility, is still rather clear - but this 'clarity' is highly dependent on the quality or your earspeakers....

Though admittedly, I'm not exactly sure what you're asking here.
What I wonder is how low the volume is on the lowest settings, i.e. when going from 0 -> 1 (if its a numerical setting) does the volume go from absolute silence to barely audible or is it quite loud from the get go. I have had many players that are too loud on the lowest settings (like the Sansa M250, Creative Zen Nano) when driving sensitive in-ear canalphones like the Sennheiser CX300 or Sony MDR-NX1.
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  #4  
Old 11-05-2007, 06:12 PM
jagfan jagfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htguy View Post
What I wonder is how low the volume is on the lowest settings, i.e. when going from 0 -> 1 (if its a numerical setting) does the volume go from absolute silence to barely audible or is it quite loud from the get go. I have had many players that are too loud on the lowest settings (like the Sansa M250, Creative Zen Nano) when driving sensitive in-ear canalphones like the Sennheiser CX300 or Sony MDR-NX1.
It has bars rather than a numerical setting. But for my sensitive ears, the volume level is an irritation for me. Sometimes I can't get the volume low enough. Just when I think I'm getting there, it goes to no sound. I don't know if the problem lies with the side control lever or something a firmware upgrade could fix.
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  #5  
Old 11-06-2007, 01:37 AM
neptune neptune is offline
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No, unfortunately the volume does not gently fade to mute. When I listen to mine at work I use the very first setting and it's slightly too loud, but it's either that or mute. It does resume at at the same place after you power off.
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  #6  
Old 11-06-2007, 01:44 AM
neptune neptune is offline
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No, unfortunately the volume does not gently fade to mute. When I listen to mine at work I use the very first setting and it's slightly too loud, but it's either that or mute. It does resume the same place after you power off though.
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  #7  
Old 11-06-2007, 01:58 AM
htguy htguy is offline
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Thanks it looks like I will have to give this one a pass as well.
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  #8  
Old 11-06-2007, 05:59 AM
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You could try setting all EQ bands to their lowest setting - that should give you a few dB less.

I do that on my Cowon D2 when listening to audio books at night. Volume level 3 is too low, level 4 is too high... EQing down works fine.
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  #9  
Old 11-06-2007, 08:14 AM
htguy htguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfkt View Post
You could try setting all EQ bands to their lowest setting - that should give you a few dB less.

I do that on my Cowon D2 when listening to audio books at night. Volume level 3 is too low, level 4 is too high... EQing down works fine.
I will wait and see if they can fix it with a firmware update. I have too many mp3 players laying around that fall short on some factor.
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  #10  
Old 11-06-2007, 08:56 AM
groovingalong groovingalong is offline
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Volume levels on European Sansa players in general is said to be lower, so theoretically those of you with a problem could switch to European firmware?
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  #11  
Old 11-07-2007, 09:10 AM
johnnyz86 johnnyz86 is offline
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i'm sure it can be fixed in firmware, just look at rockbox (it has many many more steps for each player it is on).

http://forums.sandisk.com/sansa/boar...&thread.id=155

here is my post on the sandisk official forums that they read for feature requests (note the voice quality post).

i have 2 workarounds for the volume, one lowers it a little bit, using the custom eq and changing one just a little, and using mp3gain to lower song volumes which i use anyway for clipping, but theres another issue with that in my thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfkt View Post
You could try setting all EQ bands to their lowest setting - that should give you a few dB less.

I do that on my Cowon D2 when listening to audio books at night. Volume level 3 is too low, level 4 is too high... EQing down works fine.
a not so great solution. the eq is a series of peaks at certain frequencies with different width values. putting them all at -10 will not preserve a flat frequency response and there will be noticible peaks as a result, coloring the sound in an unintended way. if you don't mind the sound, then i guess this works, but it will negatively affect battery noticibly as well.
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  #12  
Old 11-07-2007, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyz86 View Post
a not so great solution. the eq is a series of peaks at certain frequencies with different width values. putting them all at -10 will not preserve a flat frequency response and there will be noticible peaks as a result, coloring the sound in an unintended way. if you don't mind the sound, then i guess this works, but it will negatively affect battery noticibly as well.
I'm the first one to complain about bad audio quality.... but in this case it's good enough for me, listening to audio books in bed (same thing the OP intends to use these low volume settings for). Sure, it's certainly no good solution for listening to music, but works for my LAME -V8 -mm encoded audio books.

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Originally Posted by johnnyz86 View Post
i'm sending you a PM because abi isn't letting me post because it never sent me a activation email, i pm'd the mod but havn't gotten a response yet. resetting my pw works fine but doesnt 'activate' me.
You appear as a normal, registered user to me - since you could post the message above.
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  #13  
Old 11-07-2007, 09:32 AM
johnnyz86 johnnyz86 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfkt View Post
I'm the first one to complain about bad audio quality.... but in this case it's good enough for me, listening to audio books in bed (same thing the OP intends to use these low volume settings for). Sure, it's certainly no good solution for listening to music, but works for my LAME -V8 -mm encoded audio books.



You appear as a normal, registered user to me - since you could post the message above.
well that's good that it works for you guys, but i'm still unhappy because my sensitive headphones are too loud for normal listening. MP3gain and variants will work for me for now but i have too much ungain'd unorganized music, so unless they fix the msc file display, i'm doubly unhappy. so i think you guys should post in my sandisk thread to help them notice it!

regardless, using the custom eq and adjust one band by 1 preserves the flat and quite good sound the clip is becoming known for. adjusting the eq results in a it seems like -5ish preamp cut to prevent clipping.


and oops, it wouldnt me post 3 days ago when i first made my reply, i PM'd it to the OP but he never posted it. finally enzo re-sent my activation link today so i just cut and pasted it without reading over it - i just woke up
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  #14  
Old 11-07-2007, 09:39 AM
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You could try an impedance adapter for your phones, it'll increase the impedance and lower the overall sound volume. Ultimate Ears, Shure, and other companies sell those. Or build one yourself with two resistors in the signal path. It's easy to do.
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  #15  
Old 11-07-2007, 09:57 AM
htguy htguy is offline
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How difficult can it be to make a DAP that caters to our needs? We can fly missions to outer space, but still audiobook listeners have very limited options.

I'm really not interested in utilizing work-arounds since I have two old players that work better (albeit in varying degrees).

All I ever wanted was smallish form factor, intelligent bookmarking and the ability to listen to audiobooks (both converted cd-books and audible books) at a low volume with a sleep timer. With the clip I was willing to forgo my wishes for AAA-battery operation.
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  #16  
Old 11-07-2007, 12:05 PM
johnnyz86 johnnyz86 is offline
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well, they did listen to the request about voice quality and it has been confirmed they are making the change, so if we go onto their official forums and complain, there is quite a possibility it will be addressed.

sandisk seems reasonable about these things, i mean they did go to rockbox for their other plays and support them.
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  #17  
Old 11-07-2007, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htguy View Post
How difficult can it be to make a DAP that caters to our needs? We can fly missions to outer space, but still audiobook listeners have very limited options.

I'm really not interested in utilizing work-arounds since I have two old players that work better (albeit in varying degrees).

All I ever wanted was smallish form factor, intelligent bookmarking and the ability to listen to audiobooks (both converted cd-books and audible books) at a low volume with a sleep timer. With the clip I was willing to forgo my wishes for AAA-battery operation.
To be quite honest...

This 'volume not being low enough' matter is (admittedly) rather obscure, and probably concerns such a small percentage of DAP buyers as to almost render it a non-issue.

Rather than bash manufacturers about engineering solutions for such arcane affairs, why not just buy less sensitive earspeakers/headphones for listening to audio-books and the like?

The fact is, the Sansa Clip is a brilliant piece of DAP work, with class-leading sound quality, at an outstanding price point.
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  #18  
Old 11-08-2007, 02:49 AM
htguy htguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post
To be quite honest...
This 'volume not being low enough' matter is (admittedly) rather obscure, and probably concerns such a small percentage of DAP buyers as to almost render it a non-issue.
.
The fact that this thread has garnered quite an interest shows that this isn't a non-issue. The fact that the volume is poorly regulated is a flawed design, there's no getting around that fact. Also take a look at all the posts over at Creatives forum regarding the volume issue with the N200 and Zen Nano (when they changed from a volume scale ranging from 0 - 40 to 0 - 25), I assure you that this isn't a non issue. Using an third party attenuator has a detrimental affect on battery life and is a cumbersome and ineffective workaround.

Quote:
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To be quite honest...
Rather than bash manufacturers about engineering solutions for such arcane affairs, why not just buy less sensitive earspeakers/headphones for listening to audio-books and the like?
What makes listening to audiobooks an arcane affair? Maybe you have missed it, but audiobook sales is ever increasing. I also fail to see how protecting ones hearing can be considered an arcane affair.

I don't see where I have bashed the manufacturers, I have simply asked a question regarding an important aspect for me (and many others). One can be critical without deserving to be called a basher, and I don't appreciate your tone.

Listening comfort always takes precedence for me since I only have one pair of ears to last me a life time, but my DAPs will come and go and are easily replaceable.
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  #19  
Old 11-09-2007, 11:30 PM
neptune neptune is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post
To be quite honest...

This 'volume not being low enough' matter is (admittedly) rather obscure, and probably concerns such a small percentage of DAP buyers as to almost render it a non-issue.
Admittedly? The only admission of any kind in this thread was your own:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post
Though admittedly, I'm not exactly sure what you're asking here.
Maybe you should have left it at that (instead of rambling pontification).

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfkt View Post
You could try setting all EQ bands to their lowest setting - that should give you a few dB less.

I do that on my Cowon D2 when listening to audio books at night. Volume level 3 is too low, level 4 is too high... EQing down works fine.
Thanks for the nice tip, that pretty well solves the problem for mp3 files, especially audio books @ night, it's easy to set the custom eq to as low as you want to go and then switch back to another setting for music or other times of the day. Unfortunately it doesn't work for FM, but we can't have everything can we?
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  #20  
Old 01-20-2008, 10:43 AM
htguy htguy is offline
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Any updates regarding this issue?
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