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  #1  
Old 08-22-2013, 12:01 PM
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XTR95 XTR95 is offline
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Question Clear Bass issues with LOD?

Before I got my FiiO L5 LOD, I used to put Clear Bass +3. After getting LOD, if I put it at +3, the mids are forcefully sort of getting "lowered", I mean, they get recessed when the music gets loud (i.e. chorus in Rock/Metal songs). It sounds like it's being capped, forcefully. When Clear Bass is set at +2, the problem completely goes away.

My E470 is not EU volume capped, nor has any other enhancements turned on. E06 is on default (No EQ). I've narrowed it down to Clear Bass as it only occurs when it is set at +3.

Is this a common Sony LOD issue? If anyone else has the L5, could you test this out? I tried IEMs as well, same issue prevails at +3.
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  #2  
Old 08-22-2013, 01:00 PM
musichound musichound is offline
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I could be wrong but it seems like the amp is doing this as a measure to prevent clipping. I don't think it's your player.
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  #3  
Old 08-22-2013, 08:58 PM
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Well, if I use a 3.5mm to 3.5mm interconnect instead of the LOD, the problem goes away. Although, I can't set the volume at max then, it will keep it start "capping forcefully" when it's around 28-30 (which I think all Sony's do, I may be mistaken though), regardless of using an amp or not.

If I use the LOD, isn't the player's volume automatically set at max? You could be right but I don't think its the amp that's doing this, maybe my player is doing this to prevent clipping...

I was googling and found this at head-fi (http://www.head-fi.org/t/486171/sony...od-seller-pics). It's an old thread I know (the L5 wasn't available back then) but in Post #7, what the poster is saying is true in my case as well.

I'd like a fellow Sony user to test this for me if possible.
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  #4  
Old 09-02-2013, 03:15 PM
MattMc3 MattMc3 is offline
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Edit: My setup for this post: Sony S545 --> Sony NWU3 Cradle --> Line Out --> Home Stereo Integrated Amp --> Headphones

@XTR95: I tried to duplicate your "Clear Bass +3" problem with my NWZ-S545 (US version) and a BCR-NWU3 Cradle that has a 3.5mm line-out jack connected to my home-stereo's integrated amp and headphones. I tried all of the Clear Bass settings (0, +1, +2, +3) and even though the deep bass increased as expected, I didn't notice anything wrong or different with the mid bass at any setting. Your description sounds like the mid bass problem is very obvious when it is occurring. I definitely didn't hear anything obviously wrong.

FYI, when my S545 is inserted into the cradle/line-out dock, the volume buttons on the S545 don't have any effect - the Walkman doesn't even acknowledge that the buttons were pressed (no on-screen indication of a volume change) and the line-level volume output remains fixed. If the volume controls on your E470 still work when your line-out dock is connected, I'd question whether that "dock" is a true line-out dock. Hope that helps.

Matt

Last edited by MattMc3; 09-03-2013 at 09:25 AM.
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  #5  
Old 09-03-2013, 02:42 AM
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Thanks for replying. My LOD is okay, obviously when using the LOD the device volume cannot be changed (Same no on-screen indication like yours, doesn't acknowledge if buttons pressed). My last post was about a 3.5-3.5 interconnect via Headphone Out.

Actually I think I've figured out my issue. I experimented a bit yesterday like this

1. E470 --> L5 LOD --> mic in/line in of my PC sound card.
2. E470 --> 3.5-3.5 via HO --> mic in/line in

I recorded the Walkman output via Audacity and came across massive Clipping on #1, obviously this has happened due to the device giving out max volume (line-level output). If I max out the Clear Bass at +3, it clips even more.

In #2 though, I had the volume set at 15/30, there's no clipping then unless I put it at around 28-30.

So basically I've come to the conclusion that when using LOD and Clear Bass maxed at +3, the sound clips and that is why the Walkman caps in down to prevent distortion. I should add that Clear Bass and EQ settings do get a crisper response when using the LOD.

Thank you again for trying it out from your dock. Matt. Appreciate the help. As from you too, musichound.

And oh I made a mistake on the first post, it's not the mids specifically, its the overall loudness that seems to be capped. Sorry about that. I'm getting a FiiO E07k next week, I'll try it out to see whether it's the amp or the Walkman.

edit : Hey The DarkSide, dunno if you're gonna see this post but I recall you have the L5 too. Can you try it out? Thanks in advance!
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Last edited by XTR95; 09-03-2013 at 02:55 AM.
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  #6  
Old 09-03-2013, 09:23 AM
MattMc3 MattMc3 is offline
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Okay, I tried what you suggested in post #5 above. This is how I connected my setup:

1) S545 Walkman --> Sony NWU3 Cradle --> Line Output --> Home Stereo Integrated Amp --> Headphones
2) S545 Walkman --> 3.5mm Headphone Output --> Home Stereo Integrated Amp --> Headphones

In setup #1, I don't hear anything wrong at all with any Clear Bass setting. Obviously the volume setting can't be adjusted on the Walkman because it is putting out a line-out signal in this setup.

In setup #2, I definitely hear the problem that you are describing in your previous posts. Initially I could not test this with just the Walkman and headphones because I can't listen to the Walkman turned up to 28-30. It's too loud and is painful to listen to. Once I connected the headphone output to my Integrated Amp, I was able to adjust the Walkman's volume up to 28-30 and then control the headphone volume with the Integrated Amp's volume control. With a volume settings of 27 or below, everything sounds normal with any of the Clear Bass settings. With a volume setting of 28-30 and a Clear Bass setting of +1 or +2, everything sounds normal. With a volume setting of 28-30 and a Clear Bass setting of +3, the equalization of the music is definitely being adjusted by the Walkman, probably to prevent clipping as you suggested. It's not just the bass that is affected (as you would expect), but the mids and highs also. In general, the sound just sounds very muffled. When I move the Clear Bass setting back to +1 or +2, the bass instantly decreases (as expected), but the muffled mids and highs seem to take about 3-5 seconds before they gradually return to normal. Weird. Another thing I noticed is that this only occurs on bass-heavy music or music that is recorded really loud. I tried it on some piano-with-female-vocals (very little bass), and I did not notice any difference at all even at Vol 30 and CB +3.

@XTR95: I'm confused whether you had this problem with your LOD or without it. In your first two posts you indicated that it happens with your LOD. In your third post it sounds like it only happens when using your 3.5mm output. I'm 99% sure we are talking about the same thing, but...?

Matt
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  #7  
Old 09-03-2013, 11:19 AM
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Thank you again, yes finally we've both experienced the same thing. I'm sorry if I couldn't making myself clear, I'm not a native English speaker and I tend mix things up, my bad.

First up, to put you out of confusion, I experience that in both cases. Exactly how you described in your setup #2, it happens to me whether I use LOD or maxed 3.5mm Output, when Clear Bass is set at +3 (it doesn't happen if its at 0, +1 or +2, in both cases as well). And yes, you're right at this part - "Another thing I noticed is that this only occurs on bass-heavy music or music that is recorded really loud". I can notice it in choruses of rock/metal tracks, acoustic tracks don't get muffled.

Now, in your Setup #1 is where we differ. If your cradle is putting out a true line-out, then obviously my LOD doesn't seem to put out the same line-out. It feels like after all these experiments that it's just setting the volume at max (which it should do) but at the same time, it's acting like the maxed out 3.5mm Output (the muffling when CB is at +3, which is non-existant at 0,+1 and +2, as mentioned before).

Seems like it's a LOD issue. I don't have any other LODs to try out I'm afraid.
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  #8  
Old 09-03-2013, 11:59 AM
MattMc3 MattMc3 is offline
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No need to apologize for your English. You speak better English than most "English" speakers do

Okay, so I went back and listened to my dock output again and guess what? Now I can hear it through my line-out too. It really depends on the music though. I can only hear it on songs that are probably near clipping already, and that extra boost of equalization (from the Clear Bass) pushes the music into clipping and the Walkman kicks in some negative equalization to counteract it. That's my theory anyway.

I don't think it's a problem with either my Sony cradle/dock or your L5 LOD. The Walkman's appear to be programmed to do this under certain conditions.

So the way I see it, this only occurs under the following situations:
1) Using the headphone output with the volume set to 28-30 and Clear Bass set to +3 and only with certain music.
2) Using a Line-Out adapter with Clear Bass set to +3 and only with certain music.

Matt
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  #9  
Old 09-03-2013, 10:38 PM
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Finally! I was worried I might have done something wrong to the Walkman lol. Yeah I do agree with you on the Walkman being programmed like this. My suspicions were right, it can't be the Amplifier.

I think we can draw the same conclusion you posted above. Thank you again for experimenting. Appreciate it heaps!
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