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  #1  
Old 02-17-2013, 02:52 PM
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Default Bass lowering software?

My problem is I have a handful (literally a handful) of songs that distort with bass with my settings (volume, eq, BBE, jet effect) in my 17gb collection on my C2.
All tracks have went through MP3Gain to 94db. 99% of tracks are fine with these settings, its just 4-5 tracks distort, and it doesn't feel like volume distortion but more like bass is too powerful for the actual recording (bad recording possibly i dunno).
Anyway before i get flamed for listening too loud etc, I just want to ask, is there a way to tweak the bass down for a track but keep the replaygain to 94db?
Currently i switch from User 1 in my cowon C2 to User 2 (a slightly different setup which has bass lowered) for that track. I usually forget to put back after the track has passed, and anyway its annoying.
Seeing as its only 4-5 tracks that need the bass tweaked down somewhat it would be great if i could put it through the mill in some program and then not having to navigate to C2 player and manually change custom EQ each time these problematic tracks come on.

Cheers,

Bruce

PS I have full AVS software license...
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:28 PM
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I don't think what you are looking for exists.
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Old 02-17-2013, 06:15 PM
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So it sounds good with your User 2 settings?
Then one way to do it would be to play it from your device to the line-in on your computer, record it using Audacity or similar software and re-save the song. It's a hassle and you might experience some loss in overall quality, but theoretically it would be possible. It could be worth a shot anyway, all you need is a 3.5mm MTM cable and good recording software.

Otherwise, if it's solvable with an EQ, shouldn't http://www.avs4you.com/AVS-Audio-Editor.aspx possibly have something to apply that to a file? Never tried it but it sounded in the description like it might be possible.
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:29 PM
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Searching around it seems a High-pass filter might help. Also what Habhome says about applying an EQ to lower the bass in your software then exporting them with that setting would also seem possible. I don't know if the software you have can do what you need but Audacity with the Plugins and additional libraries installed can.

TBH setting up Audacity can be somewhat of a pain. It's one of the few pieces of software I've run into that I took me several attempts to get it right. I glad I did because I got it in good working order it's been helpful both in working with my files and as a learning tool. I'd do it again if I had to but I wouldn't look forward to it.

You may be able to use the audio editor to apply an EQ setting that lowers the bass frequencies and gets rid of some of the distortions. Looking at the screen shots it seems to have a fair amount of effects available. Not knowing the software I can't say which might do the most good for you. Fortunately you say it's only a few of your files so experimenting shouldn't take too much time.

It's best if you have the original lossless file to work with because if you work with a copy you'll have to re-encode along with the inevitable loss in sound quality that brings. You can try with the lossy copy and see how it sounds. Transcoding hasn't always result in a objectionable differences for me, YMMV.
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:48 AM
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Thanx for the feedback guys, will let u know how i get on. Talking with a more knowledgeable friend it does appear the mixing/recording is actually bad itself (for these few tracks) and therefore definitely need tweaked.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceBanner View Post
My problem is I have a handful (literally a handful) of songs that distort with bass with my settings (volume, eq, BBE, jet effect) in my 17gb collection on my C2.
All tracks have went through MP3Gain to 94db. 99% of tracks are fine with these settings, its just 4-5 tracks distort, and it doesn't feel like volume distortion but more like bass is too powerful for the actual recording (bad recording possibly i dunno).
Anyway before i get flamed for listening too loud etc, I just want to ask, is there a way to tweak the bass down for a track but keep the replaygain to 94db?
Currently i switch from User 1 in my cowon C2 to User 2 (a slightly different setup which has bass lowered) for that track. I usually forget to put back after the track has passed, and anyway its annoying.
Seeing as its only 4-5 tracks that need the bass tweaked down somewhat it would be great if i could put it through the mill in some program and then not having to navigate to C2 player and manually change custom EQ each time these problematic tracks come on.

Cheers,

Bruce

PS I have full AVS software license...
You can re-encode these songs using foobar2000 with DSP Equalizer on. For example: while listening to song you turn on EQ in foobar and you adjust desired EQ setting that will make bass less powerful and than you use those EQ setting while converting from FLAC to MP3. If you have MP3 only, you could convert it like that MP3>FLAC>MP3 (with EQ)

EQ setting will be embedded within newly converted MP3 file, so to speak. And you don't have to change EQ setting in your Cowon each time.
It could work, but on the other hand it could be bad mastering, still it's worth a try.
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  #7  
Old 02-19-2013, 12:25 PM
saratoga saratoga is offline
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Quote:
All tracks have went through MP3Gain to 94db. 99% of tracks are fine with these settings, its just 4-5 tracks distort, and it doesn't feel like volume distortion but more like bass is too powerful for the actual recording (bad recording possibly i dunno).
Pumping up the volume digitally like that introduces distortion. Its not that the bass is too powerful, its that you're trying to drive the (digital) volume above max, so when a strong low frequency note hits, it gets cut off. Then when it gets converted to analog, you have a distorted sound.

You shouldn't push the volume up quite so high.
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saratoga View Post
Pumping up the volume digitally like that introduces distortion. Its not that the bass is too powerful, its that you're trying to drive the (digital) volume above max, so when a strong low frequency note hits, it gets cut off. Then when it gets converted to analog, you have a distorted sound.

You shouldn't push the volume up quite so high.
I thought that might be the case also, but it doesn't make a difference in this case. Each of the 5 tracks or so that distort are doing it at their original volumes as well. It even distorts in the itunes store lol.
But... i'm not agreeing that 94db is too high, more often than not with new albums I have obtained this is BRINGING volume down not raising it!
I know this as my collection on my sd card inside my c2 is mp3gained to 94db, the internal space on my c2 is left to 'new albums'. Occasionally i forget to mp3gain the new albums so when a track comes on it blasts away at my ears and i have to lower the volume :\
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habhome View Post
So it sounds good with your User 2 settings?
Then one way to do it would be to play it from your device to the line-in on your computer, record it using Audacity or similar software and re-save the song. It's a hassle and you might experience some loss in overall quality, but theoretically it would be possible. It could be worth a shot anyway, all you need is a 3.5mm MTM cable and good recording software.

Otherwise, if it's solvable with an EQ, shouldn't http://www.avs4you.com/AVS-Audio-Editor.aspx possibly have something to apply that to a file? Never tried it but it sounded in the description like it might be possible.
I like the idea of this. Ultimately i listen to my music the loudest on my C2 when at work, so it makes sense to try to fiddle with the eq settings of the C2 and feed it back into audacity and resave song. If it works out well I might do it for other tracks that have unusually strong bass.

You see for me I have quite an eclectic music taste, one minute listening to techno then to classical then to metal then to rap then to house and whilst one eq setting works well for one genre it doesnt lend well to another.
This is why we have presets like 'classical, jazz, rock' etc in the first place because i guess its wildly accepted that different eq settings (and even surroundings) make the music sound better (rather than just leaving things at neutral). Purisits gonna hate i guess.. lol

I have never understood why no DAP has allowed you to assign an EQ preset or custom setting to a specific genre, that is to bind it. So that when a track comes one that u have tagged 'Metal' it uses the eq preset of yer choice (or custom), and when another track of a different genre plays again the player automatically chooses another eq setting that u have configured.
This would save having to manually change all the time. Seems very basic option to me...
Or even just having a dedicated eq button on the player (like play/pause/skip etc) that simply rotates through custom eq settings or summin (without having to use screen controls).
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceBanner View Post

This is why we have presets like 'classical, jazz, rock' etc in the first place because i guess its wildly accepted that different eq settings (and even surroundings) make the music sound better (rather than just leaving things at neutral). Purisits gonna hate i guess.. lol

I have never understood why no DAP has allowed you to assign an EQ preset or custom setting to a specific genre, that is to bind it. So that when a track comes one that u have tagged 'Metal' it uses the eq preset of yer choice (or custom), and when another track of a different genre plays again the player automatically chooses another eq setting that u have configured.
This would save having to manually change all the time. Seems very basic option to me...
Or even just having a dedicated eq button on the player (like play/pause/skip etc) that simply rotates through custom eq settings or summin (without having to use screen controls).
I've never paid attention to those generic eq labels, and if I can't see through them to what they are actually doing, then it just turns me off to the product altogether.

I'd argue that the year tag would be more valuable then the genre tag as a 'metal' album (or any genre for that matter) from decade to decade would sound totally different.

But the appeal of what you describe would seem to have a limited audience.
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Old 02-19-2013, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kp-j3 View Post
I've never paid attention to those generic eq labels, and if I can't see through them to what they are actually doing, then it just turns me off to the product altogether.

I'd argue that the year tag would be more valuable then the genre tag as a 'metal' album (or any genre for that matter) from decade to decade would sound totally different.

But the appeal of what you describe would seem to have a limited audience.
True, i don't use rock eq for rock, or jazz for jazz either, but im guesisng they all share similar trends across different eq platforms. Year tag, genre tag whatever, my point is there is no automatic switch of eq to different styles/genres of music, yet we are given a gazillion presets and 4 custom eq in cowon players alone. Other players also have many presets as do software players like foobar, winamp etc.
I can't understand why what I suggest would be a limited audience appeal, its simple, they haven't thought of it.

I can't be the ONLY one who has eq set x and another song comes on and its the wrong eq for that track, everyone one of us (when that happens) has to dig our player out of our pocket and do some navigating to change eq, by now 1min of the song has passed :/
I can't be the only that that has this problem, has no one thought of having an intelligent player that switches eq on yer behalf (with consent and eq of yer choice of course)?
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  #12  
Old 02-19-2013, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceBanner View Post

I can't be the ONLY one who has eq set x and another song comes on and its the wrong eq for that track, everyone one of us (when that happens) has to dig our player out of our pocket and do some navigating to change eq, by now 1min of the song has passed :/
When I set an EQ, it is designed to compensate for any shortcomings of the headphone I am using....I never change it for individual songs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceBanner View Post
I can't be the only that that has this problem, has no one thought of having an intelligent player that switches eq on yer behalf (with consent and eq of yer choice of course)?
I think my Samsung Q2 had an auto setting available for the EQ, actually....but it's been so long since I had it that I can't be sure now.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:57 PM
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Well maybe i am just weird...
For me its like this;
C2 player neutral sounds good, using BBE and Jeteffect and certain eq settings makes most music sound better than neutral (to my ears). But every now and then i'll come across a track that doesn't favour those eq settings, perhaps a classical piece whereby it sounds too tinny, or perhaps a rap song with huge low bass and the eq settings distort it, so i need to change to adapt to those pieces. So i do, by using custom 2-4 that are variants of custom 1. All i'm saying is its a pain in the ass manually changing (and then u get distracted and forget to put back).
I thought lots of people would behave like this, I expect Cowon think people do this otherwise why give 4 custom presets and a gazillion other ones in the first place? Why have EQ at all?
I don't think im being odd, i genuinely think that if someone in the office at cowon hq had actually thought about it they might add it in. I believe very few devices (across all boards) actually get field tested properly so lots of helpful features like this just never happen.
Rockbox fills the gaps where many players fall short, created by a community, i for one would love a feature like this to be included.

Anyway... back to the issue at hand, I assure you that the recording is bad on these select tracks, it needs to go through a mix of some sort.
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceBanner View Post
Well maybe i am just weird...
For me its like this;
C2 player neutral sounds good, using BBE and Jeteffect and certain eq settings makes most music sound better than neutral (to my ears). But every now and then i'll come across a track that doesn't favour those eq settings, perhaps a classical piece whereby it sounds too tinny, or perhaps a rap song with huge low bass and the eq settings distort it, so i need to change to adapt to those pieces. So i do, by using custom 2-4 that are variants of custom 1. All i'm saying is its a pain in the ass manually changing (and then u get distracted and forget to put back).
I thought lots of people would behave like this, I expect Cowon think people do this otherwise why give 4 custom presets and a gazillion other ones in the first place? Why have EQ at all?
I don't think im being odd, i genuinely think that if someone in the office at cowon hq had actually thought about it they might add it in. I believe very few devices (across all boards) actually get field tested properly so lots of helpful features like this just never happen.
Rockbox fills the gaps where many players fall short, created by a community, i for one would love a feature like this to be included.

Anyway... back to the issue at hand, I assure you that the recording is bad on these select tracks, it needs to go through a mix of some sort.
With my previous Cowon players, I used the Custom settings for different headphones....like Custom 1 was for the PortaPro, Custom 2 for the JVC Flats, etc. I may end up doing the same with my X9 that arrived today(which I haven't heard yet because I am still filling it with tunes).
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:34 AM
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Oh X9! goody goody how exciting please do a review! lol
Using different eq for different heads makes sense also. But generally i use one pair all the time across the board until it breaks, then i use my standby pair and change eq accordingly.
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
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Oh X9! goody goody how exciting please do a review! lol
All I can tell you now is it is smaller than I thought it would be...lol.
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Old 02-20-2013, 02:38 AM
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PICS!! comparisons (preferably the lego dude scale )
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Old 02-20-2013, 08:35 AM
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Being you used MP3 gain, the audio increase can be reversed because the information is stored in the tags. I suggest to scale back two of the songs, including one with the distortion to 89db as a test for each one. I bet the one that distorts at 96db will have a louder bass even with the 89db setting.
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:44 AM
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My friend who put the song through audacity (as an attempt to try and reduce the distortion) said that the bass was distorting even in the itunes store where he had a quick listen.
I'll try it tho.
Basically the message im getting is there is no obvious easy method to run a song through software and have eq settings at 'x' and resave it.
I was hoping to simply scale back the bass a few notches, save and listen to see if that helped.
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:01 PM
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I loaded the song into AVS Audio Editor and it indeed has EQ settings.

Whether or not these changes remained fixed after saving I have yet to try, will have a play later. I'm guessing to bring bass down its a case of lowering the first few bars on the left somewhat?

Anyway for anyone curious the songs in question are;


and


(bass distortion occurring at 3:12)

I'm pretty sure these are just bad recordings as every headphone, player, speaker, software, cd player etc has resulted in distortion when playing these two particular songs back.

Thoughts?
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