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  #1  
Old 01-04-2013, 10:33 AM
bannerdog bannerdog is offline
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Default Clip Zip - Most audio files not displayed in menu

BACKGROUND

I use MP3 players solely for audio books.

I had a Clip+, which I very recently dropped and broke.

I purchased two Clip Zips (and 3 32-GB cards, and Clip protector sleeves), which arrived a couple of days ago.

-----------------------


MY EXPERIENCE WITH THE CLIP ZIP(S)

Upon the delivery of my Clip Zips, I was forced to choose between being able to navigate by folder, and having the player remember my audio book "bookmarks".

So, I made certain that all relevant files had the needed tags (title, artist, album, etc), and placed many of them (32 GB worth) onto the card in the AUDIOBOOKS folder.

Incidentally, I had the Clip Zip format the (32 GB) SD card.

Alas, when using the Zip, I was able to locate only about 10% of the files I had placed onto the card.

This occurred regardless of how I searched (artist, album, etc).

This occurred with both Clip Zips.

I have the latest firmware (01.01.20a).

I then tried moving "everything" to the MUSIC folder, so that I could try navigating by folder.

Again, the large majority of my folders/files could not been "seen".

In order to eliminate the possibility that the card itself was somehow "to blame", I took the 16 GB card out of my (broken) Clip+, and put it into one of the Clip Zips.

What did I find? Zip!

Okay, not exactly Zip.

But the 16 GB card contains about 50 audio files, and I can "see" only THREE of them using the Clip Zip. I could "see" and play them all using the Clip+.

The files reside "under" the MUSIC folder, but I cannot "see" them even using folder navigation (except for the aforementioned three files).

The Clip Zip does "see" the files when acting as a USB drive. I connected the Clip Zip to the computer with the 16 GB card inserted. Sure enough, the files are there.

It's almost as if the Zip considers most of the files "invalid" (which are all MP3, no DRM), and so does not make them available to be played.

However, the Clip+ played all the files on the SAME CARD I put into the Clip Zip.

If the tags were bad, the files should still be displayed as "unknown". They are not displayed at all (well, there is one "unknown").

Furthermore, I've "browsed" these audio files with two tag editors, and both of them "like" the tags.


-----------------------------------

BOTTOM LINE PROBLEM: THE CLIP ZIP DOES NOT DISPLAY THE FILES PRESENT ON THE STORAGE MEDIA.

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SUMMARY

I could live without being to navigate my books by folder&&.

I'd just have to make sure that all files are properly tagged.

However, being unable to "see" or play the large majority of my audio books is unacceptable.

I don't know whether this problem also exists for internal storage. I haven't done much with that yet.

One further comment: Either my eyes have suddenly gotten worse, or the font of the Clip+ was easier to read than that of the Clip Zip.

I have trouble navigating the Clip Zip (reading the text), which I did not with the Clip+.


COMMENDATIONS

I will say that the Clip+ was really a great audio book player for the price.

If I could actually "see" and play all of the audio books on storage, I'd love the Clip Zip, especially for the price.

[By the way, I bought a top-end iPad (yes, pad, not pod), used it a total of less than two hours, thought it sucked (not just for the price, would not have used it if it were free), and sold it on Craig's List - could have returned it, but was mistaken about the cut-off date. The only product I ever "returned", if memory serves. And I buy a lot of tech-toys; I'm a software engineer. Apple does put together very nice hardware. If only the software was acceptable...

But I digress.

I also dye gress, light green on one side, dark green on the other. However, I've stopped giving them as gifts, as people complain that "the gress is always greener on the other side".
]


QUESTIONS

Does anyone have any idea why the Clip Zips don't "present" most of my folders/files?

Has anyone else experienced this?

Any further comments or suggestions?



I have considered trying the Rockbox firmware, but I don't know how good that is for audio books. I understand that one can dual boot, and select the "OS" on boot up. One person commented that he used the Rockbox firmware for music, the default firmware for audio books, suggesting that perhaps Rockbox is not good for audio books (which is my ONLY use of an MP3 player).

Any comments or suggestions regarding Rockbox (remember, I use the player ONLY for audiobooks).



&& Comment on lack of folder browsing for audiobooks.

Off the top of my head, I would guess that the "database" containing tags, etc, is also used to store bookmarks. Since the FAT file system provides no efficient means of associating a value (in this case, a bookmark) with a file (i.e., the file system does not support "user" specified file attributes), the database must be accessed to restore playback position.

If this is the reason for disallowing audio book folder browsing, then a compromise might be to allow such browsing, but to not restore playback position if the book is launched via folder browsing. At least one could "see" the files.

Last edited by bannerdog; 01-04-2013 at 12:04 PM. Reason: Minor typo
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  #2  
Old 01-04-2013, 12:54 PM
b0geyman b0geyman is offline
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I had the same issue with podcasts and it drove me nuts to the point that I ended up rockboxing it (which works fine) for a few weeks. But I finally figured it out: you need to put them in the \MUSIC\PODCASTS (or \MUSIC\AUDIOBOOKS) folder on the microSD card for them to be treated as such. Then use the "books" section on the menu to access the files. I don't think bookmarking of podcasts is supported (haven't tried it for audio books) but it can at least pick up where I left off after a shutdown.

Last edited by b0geyman; 01-04-2013 at 01:00 PM.
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  #3  
Old 01-04-2013, 05:15 PM
bannerdog bannerdog is offline
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B0geyman,

I appreciate the suggestion, but I thought I had already tried that, and apparently, I had.

I just put all the audio books on the SD card into the MUSIC/AUDIOBOOKS folder.

When I select Music/Folers/External Card

The display says:

[Empty]

However, that's not the case.

Heck, I can use the Clip Zip as a USB drive, and play the audio files on my PC.


SOME of the files show up via database browsing, but most don't.

I just Rockboxed one of my two Clip Zips. Unlike the OF (original firmware) Clip Zip, the Rockboxed Clip Zip can show and play ALL of my audio files.

Now, I'm trying to figure out why Automatic resume doesn't seem to work.
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  #4  
Old 01-05-2013, 08:55 AM
skip252 skip252 is offline
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There's differences in the Clip+ and Clip Zip using the sandisk firmware that go beyond just the changes in the screen and additional codec support. There is a lot more that happens in the background with the Clip Zip. Some of the differences like tag reading can make a Clip Zip much more difficult to use. As the same files work on your Clip+ and don't on your Clip Zip I believe you've run into some of those differences.

In the times I've tried using the sandisk firmware, not for audiobooks, I've found that there's something very different in how it reads tags. The same files that read with 100% reliability on a Clip+ sometimes showed up with missing tags or not at all. The difference seems to be the tag encoding.

Files tagged with MP3tag as ID3v2.3 ISO-8859-1 encoding were read properly. Files tagged as ID3v2.3 UTF-16 were hit or miss. Sometimes worked properly, sometimes information was missing or listed as Unknown. Files tagged ID3v2.4 UTF-8 were either not visible or listed as Unknown. Having either ID3v1 or APEv2 tags would also interfere with the tags being read and whether or not the files would appear on the player.

Interestingly I ran into situations where just re-tagging the files with encoding that was known to be good wasn't enough to cause them to appear properly. I had to remove them from the player, let the database refresh and then add the files that I had "corrected" back to the player. If the corrected files had the expected tag encoding the worked.

I discovered this on a Clip Zip using the sandisk firmware that didn't have Rockbox installed. Installing Rockbox didn't make a difference in the sandisk firmware but the same files that either didn't appear at all or had missing info in the OF displayed all their info in Rockbox.

Automatic Resume in Rockbox works for me. Have you initialized the database? Looking at the manual http://download.rockbox.org/daily/ma...#x11-1490008.8 it says the resume points are stored there so you'll need to have the database working as part of having automatic resume work properly.

Edit: Working off memory here but it seems I also had to have Bookmarking set to Create bookmarks on stop and the database set to Auto Update. I'm not sure about the correct setup anymore as I stopped using auto resume a good while back. As a music only listener resuming in the middle of a track was more distracting than helpful.

Last edited by skip252; 01-06-2013 at 03:37 AM. Reason: Added info about bookmarks setting and auto update database
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