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  #1  
Old 12-06-2012, 06:57 PM
raw-g. raw-g. is offline
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Default J3 playlist problem

I have firmware version 2.26 and I'm running Kizune's UI Lynx 1.2.0 and I have a 32gb card in external drive. Both of my drives contain ~30 gb music. I leave my J3 in MTP mode.

I am using WinAMP to make playlists on my J3.

From what I understood from reading many forum threads regarding the issues with Cowon J3 playlists; playlists stored on internal drive can only play songs stored on internal drive & playlists stored on external drive can only play songs stored on external drive.

I rearranged my music (in separate genre folders) between the 2 drives.

I can make a playlist (pla) on WinAMP on the internal drive (using songs located on internal drive) and they work fine.

I made simelar playlists on WinAMP on the external drive (using songs located on external drive) and they show up on the WinAMP sidebar as being stored in the external drive (and in the playlist folder of the external drive when looking at the J3 in Windows), but they don't show up in the J3 screen when the player is unplugged from computer and it reboots. The playlists show up in the WinAMP sidebar again when I reconnect the J3 to my computer???

What am I missing here?

Can the J3 ONLY play playlists from the internal drive (not the external card)?

Thanks in advance for any help you can give this novice!
I've been banging my head against the wall on this issue for a while now.
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  #2  
Old 12-08-2012, 12:15 AM
DSperber DSperber is offline
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When the J3 is in MTP mode, only PLA playlists are supported.

To use Winamp to make playlists, they will be M3U format, not PLA. And to play them the J3 must be in MSC mode, not MTP. And yet you say you've used Winamp to create PLA playlists, to which I say "I'm astounded". I thought only Windows Explorer could create PLA playlists.

There is no good reason (for me anyway) to have your J3 in MTP mode, but then I just play music (and do not "scrobble" or whatever that means).

Once you go to MSC mode, 100% of all Windows programs will be usable to access both internal and external storage of the J3 (each of which will be assigned a unique drive letter by Windows when you plug it in to the USB port), etc.

And then you can use Winamp to create your M3U playlists pointing to music files on the J3 (either internal or external storage, but not both in the same M3U playlist), and storing them on the J3 (either on internal or external storage, depending on where the referenced music files live in that M3U playlist).


Note that when using Windows Explorer to create/maintain PLA playlists (for MTP mode), it is very unfriendly and cumbersome... but it does work. And you CAN drag/drop music files from either internal or external storage onto the PLA target area in edit mode. So PLA does support both internal and external locations for music files in the same PLA playlist. I believe these PLA playlists should always be stored on internal storage, no matter where the referenced music files live.
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  #3  
Old 12-10-2012, 02:11 PM
raw-g. raw-g. is offline
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Thanks, DSperber!

Do I have to do the "remove the micro SD card before reboot" thing when using the method you describe?
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  #4  
Old 12-11-2012, 02:11 AM
DSperber DSperber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raw-g. View Post
Thanks, DSperber!

Do I have to do the "remove the micro SD card before reboot" thing when using the method you describe?
I'm not sure I understand what you're asking.

Are you asking if you need to go through the "safely remove hardware" process of Windows (and other OS's as well) before you disconnect the USB cable, after doing maintenance on the J3 (either internal or external storage)?

The answer is YES. Anytime you write to one of these removable drives, in any form, and Windows assigned a drive letter to the drive, and then presented the "safely remove hardware" icon in the System Tray, that is the indicator that you ABSOLUTELY must go through that process for safely disconnecting the USB cable. Right click on the system tray icon, select the J3 on the "eject" list, and wait for the "it is now safe to remove hardware" message from Windows. This guarantees that any unwritten data still in buffers gets properly flushed out to the device, before you pull the plug.

When you put the J3 into MSC mode, Windows will assign 1 or 2 drive letters (depending on if you have an external card inserted in the J3 at the time). And you also see that "safely remove hardware" icon appear in the System Tray.

This doesn't happen in MTP mode (and in fact there are no drive letters assigned to the J3 by Windows either), but it will happen in MSC mode.


Is that the answer to your question? I'm not sure what your question is.


Is it necessary to remove the external card from the J3 before rebooting? When?

It's never necessary to remove the external card from the J3, period. You can insert it an leave it in forever. When you plug the J3 into the PC you'll get two drive letters assigned, one for internal storage and the other for external storage. But it's perfectly ok to just leave the card in forever, and read/write to the appropriate drive letter with Explorer or Winamp or whatever.


The only time you absolutely must remove the external card from the J3 is (a) if you are using a 64GB card, and (b) if you are going to connect your J3 to the PC for maintenance on internal storage or something. In other words there is a problem with the J3's firmware and Windows, regarding a 64GB external card formatted as FAT32. You shouldn't have the 64GB card inserted in the J3 when you're going to be connecting the J3 to the PC. Remove the 64GB card first, if you need to connect the J3 to the PC.

So if you do acquire a 64GB card, you MUST also use an external USB card reader to format/read/write to this 64GB card. It is the USB card reader which is connected to the PC and amazingly Windows has no problem dealing with the 64GB card in the card reader. But it has lots of problems (probably caused by the J3 firmware) if you use the J3 as that card reader. So don't.

Once you finish read/write to the 64GB card through the card reader, you then "safely remove hardware" (as you should always do) and then remove the card from the card reader and insert it into the J3. Disconnected from the PC, the J3 has no trouble reading that 64GB card.

Is this what you're asking??
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  #5  
Old 12-12-2012, 02:22 PM
raw-g. raw-g. is offline
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I got the "remove the sd card before rebooting" from the thread "the playlist thread to end all playlist threads" started in April 2012.

Thank you DSperber for your help, it is greatly appreciated!!


I will try your method tonight and will post my results.

Last edited by raw-g.; 12-12-2012 at 06:17 PM. Reason: adding text
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  #6  
Old 12-14-2012, 11:24 AM
raw-g. raw-g. is offline
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It worked!!

Thanks DSperber!

I made 12 playlists yesterday and all of them work fine.
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  #7  
Old 12-14-2012, 02:43 PM
DSperber DSperber is offline
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Excellent!

Glad whatever info you made use of got you the results you were looking for. The key really is that MTP is really not a user-friendly USB mode for the J3 and Windows, and MSC is what you need to use if you want to make use of playlists (M3U) built by Windows programs (e.g. Winamp).
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  #8  
Old 12-14-2012, 05:03 PM
raw-g. raw-g. is offline
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You are the man! (that is, I'm assuming your male)

Thanks again and have a great weekend and Christmas Holiday!!
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  #9  
Old 12-14-2012, 07:02 PM
DSperber DSperber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raw-g. View Post
You are the man! (that is, I'm assuming your male)
Yes, you got that right.

But one more question. The M3U playlists you made (with Winamp, I assume). Presumably you followed my directions and (a) pointed to the music files on the J3 (either internal storage only, or external storage only, but not from both locations in the same single M3U playlist) in the Winamp Playlist Editor, and then (b) saved the playlist onto the J3... onto the same drive location (either internal storage or external storage) as the music files themselves resided in.

Yes?

So did you create a single \Playlists folder on internal storage and a second \Playlists (or some other name?) on external storage, to hold your saved M3U playlists for any music file located on that particular drive?

And you actually can select any of these M3U playlists (no matter whether they're built for music files on either internal or external storage and reside on the corresponding storage)? No problems at all?

The J3 doesn't actually require a single folder location for M3U playlists... they can reside in ANY folder (although obviously a single \Playlists folder on each storage drive makes good sense). At boot time it will scan ALL FOLDERS on both internal and external storage looking for all M3U files, and analyze them all (i.e. get the proper linkages to their internally referenced music files) at that time (in order to make them eventually usable later if you browse Library -> [Playlists].

So, just to confirm, the M3U playlists you've made so far do demonstrate that they can reference music on internal or external storage (but not both in the same single M3U playlist), as long as the M3U playlist file itself is also saved onto the same drive from which the referenced music files are retrieved.

Yes?


Quote:
Thanks again and have a great weekend and Christmas Holiday!!
You too.
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  #10  
Old 12-17-2012, 06:08 PM
raw-g. raw-g. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post
Yes, you got that right.

But one more question. The M3U playlists you made (with Winamp, I assume). Presumably you followed my directions and (a) pointed to the music files on the J3 (either internal storage only, or external storage only, but not from both locations in the same single M3U playlist) in the Winamp Playlist Editor, and then (b) saved the playlist onto the J3... onto the same drive location (either internal storage or external storage) as the music files themselves resided in.

Yes? Yes.

So did you create a single \Playlists folder on internal storage and a second \Playlists (or some other name?) on external storage, to hold your saved M3U playlists for any music file located on that particular drive? Yes.

And you actually can select any of these M3U playlists (no matter whether they're built for music files on either internal or external storage and reside on the corresponding storage)? Yes.

No problems at all? Nothing except 2 songs (out of about 300 total songs on the various playlists I've made thus far) that were replaced mysteriously in the playlist by 2 other random songs on that particular drive, but besides that small anomoly, everything is working great!

The J3 doesn't actually require a single folder location for M3U playlists... they can reside in ANY folder (although obviously a single \Playlists folder on each storage drive makes good sense). At boot time it will scan ALL FOLDERS on both internal and external storage looking for all M3U files, and analyze them all (i.e. get the proper linkages to their internally referenced music files) at that time (in order to make them eventually usable later if you browse Library -> [Playlists].

I just have a \Playlists folder in each separate drive and store all playlists there for simplicity

So, just to confirm, the M3U playlists you've made so far do demonstrate that they can reference music on internal or external storage (but not both in the same single M3U playlist), as long as the M3U playlist file itself is also saved onto the same drive from which the referenced music files are retrieved.

Yes?
Yes, but is there any way (using playlists only, not genre, etc.) to make a playlist that has songs located on the internal AND external drives in a single playlist? On Winamp, I can only "see" the songs in either drive by clicking (in the left-hand column using the "Bento" skin) on the drive (under devices). Therefore, I can only add songs on drive A to playlists on drive A and the same with external drive B.

Have you had any success with this?
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  #11  
Old 12-18-2012, 12:07 AM
DSperber DSperber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raw-g. View Post
Yes, but is there any way (using playlists only, not genre, etc.) to make a playlist that has songs located on the internal AND external drives in a single playlist?
No.

As I've stated, the support for M3U playlists in the J3 is limited to music files on only one drive at a time, in one M3U playlist file living on that same drive. Period.

There's no way around this with M3U playlists. That's the price you pay for the convenience of MSC mode (and being able to use great Windows programs like Winamp to build your playlists on the J3 for music files also on the J3), since Windows assigns a drive letter to internal and external storage and these Windows programs require a drive letter to operate properly.

The terribly inconvenient MTP mode, which requires terribly inconvenient Windows Explorer to build/maintain terribly inconvenient PLA playlists which DO support music files on both internal and external storage... well, I'm just not willing to put up with that level of inconvenience. I don't really need it.

And besides, both PLA and M3U playlists have a limit of 400 maximum referenced music files because of the J3's firmware.

And of course this is precisely why I don't actually use either PLA or M3U playlists. I simply use the now well-known "genre-playlist" trick, which eliminates all of the above problems. No limit on maximum size, and the method handles music on both internal and external storage.

The only real downside of "genre-playlist" is that one music file can only be in one "genre-playlist" at a time, since there's only one "genre" tag field per music file that is recognized by the J3. But I can live with that... since I only have one such "genre-playlist" anyway, and that is my "FLAC" collection.
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  #12  
Old 12-20-2012, 09:16 PM
intripletime intripletime is offline
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Hi Raw-G,

I've come up with some workarounds for this playlist problem over the last few months using MusicBee software to manage my music which might interest you. In short it involves creating a central playlist for all that I want to sync - splitting it between the SD card and J3, and ensuring all of the relevant files for my personal playlists stay on the SD card. It's a little complicated, so I'll make a post about it on the weekend.
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