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Old 12-05-2012, 06:54 AM
Buttonguy Buttonguy is offline
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Default "Refreshing Your Media"-Problem

Dear forum users,

I hope you can help me with a very annoying problem concerning my clip zip. Every time I disconnect the player from a computer - any computer - the screen of the player shows the message "Refreshing Your Media" with a bar that fills up (very slowly!). This happens even if I haven't synchronized with the player or otherwise altered content on the player. It does not happen when I merely recharge the player with the use of an adapter and a normal outlet.

First of all, this is extremely annoying just because the process takes forever and uses a lot of battery power.

Second, it seems that the content of the player is altered. Yesterday I couldn't find the album I wanted to listen to on the player - even though it had been saved both on the internal and external memory of the player.

So my questions are: What is this process and can I stop it? I would like to have full manual control over the content of my player.

Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 12-05-2012, 07:41 AM
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FreeZ5 FreeZ5 is offline
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Buttonguy:

1) what type of computer does "any computer" mean? PC? Mac? Linux?

2) the solution to the "refreshing your media" problem is probably Rockbox.

3) what USB setting are you using? Autodetect? It is the usual cause of missing files.

4) it sounds to me like your mp3 tags may be a mess. You should use a product like MP3tag to remove unnecessary tags, and to ensure that the tags are coded correctly.

5) and what size Zip with what size microSDHC card?

Steve
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Last edited by FreeZ5; 12-05-2012 at 07:47 AM. Reason: added #5
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  #3  
Old 12-05-2012, 08:42 AM
Buttonguy Buttonguy is offline
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Thanks for your reply.

1) I've only tried connecting it to PCs. All using Windows if that matters.

2) Don't know what this is. I googled it and it looks complicated.

3) USB Mode is set to MSC.

5) In terms of memory, I think it is an 8GB player with a 32GB MicroSDHC. Most of my music is stored on the card.
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  #4  
Old 12-05-2012, 09:03 AM
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Hmmm...gues I should have asked what program you are using to sync files to the player. It may be making changes, in the background, that you were not expecting.

There are a number of threads on this forum about how to clean up the tags on your files. I believe the length of the path name also makes a difference (ie ELO works better than 'Electic Light Orchestra').

Unfortunately, I do not fully load my players and have not had to work through this issue.

Here's a link to one such thread, but there are many more.
http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum...ad.php?t=66183

Steve
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  #5  
Old 12-05-2012, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttonguy View Post
... 2) Don't know what this is. I googled it and it looks complicated. ... ...
Steve's right, the best way for this not to be an issue is run rockbox, while it might look complicated on first look, it's really not once you get use to it. Plus it gives you a great deal of features that are not included in the OF.
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  #6  
Old 12-05-2012, 10:22 AM
Buttonguy Buttonguy is offline
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Could you please explain to me why you think the issue has to do with tags? The problem, from my point of view, is that the player and/or the computer is automatically altering content.

As for syncing, I use WMP (I know it is not recommended) or I just copy and paste files directly onto the player. But this phenomenon happens even when I have not used WMP or altered content manually at all. And it happens with other computers that I have never used for syncing purposes.
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  #7  
Old 12-05-2012, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttonguy View Post
Could you please explain to me why you think the issue has to do with tags?
Because that's what the OF uses to sort, organize and display the track information. If it cannot read the tags, it will throw them all together under "Unknown". Btw, this is what the player is doing during the refresh database cycle, is reading the ID3 tags.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttonguy View Post
First of all, this is extremely annoying just because the process takes forever and uses a lot of battery power.
Yes, it can be annoying in the time that it takes, but truthfully it doesn't use that much battery power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttonguy View Post
- even though it had been saved both on the internal and external memory of the player.
This could be part of the problem, having the same identical track/file in 2 different locations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttonguy View Post
So my questions are: What is this process and can I stop it?
The process is "refreshing the database" as explained earlier. The only way around it is to use Rockbox firmware (also as mentioned earlier). It refreshes/builds the database in the background so you don't have to wait until it's finished to use the player.
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  #8  
Old 12-05-2012, 11:07 AM
dave61430 dave61430 is offline
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The fact is your question hasn't been answered. My original clip did not do a refresh unless I changed something, but my clip+ behaves as you describe.
Like all the other posters, I don't know why. If you aren't doing anything it sounds like maybe you are connecting to charge the thing. I use a wall charger and avoid that problem.
Never used Rockbox and have no desire for the many wonderful things it promises, but reviews here seem very favorable.
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  #9  
Old 12-05-2012, 11:20 AM
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My Clip Zip is 8GB onboard and 32GB microSD card, both fully loaded cept a little space (376 MB free), I run in MSC only and drag & drop files in. All my ID3 tags are in order and I always check them on new rips. While I rockboxed mine out of the box and didn’t even boot to the OF. Weeks later I did to see what they were talking about super long db refresh, I regret doing this test again. I used a stop watch and you can give it +15 seconds if you wish as my trigger finger was slow
  • Original Firmware: 8 minutes 49 seconds
  • Rockbox: couldn’t even turn on and off the stop watch, probably ≤ 3 seconds

*btw both my 12 year old and 14 year old have been using rb since the first clip v1 beta firmware just prior to release, so it's really not that hard but I strongly recommend reading the manual. Also it allows you to dual boot either way you wish, it's a win/win IMHO. You can read the link under my sig for more info if you wish ....

Edit: see post below, on 3rd try got better results ...
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Last edited by WalkGood; 12-05-2012 at 12:21 PM.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave61430 View Post
The fact is your question hasn't been answered.
Gee Dave...you think that I don't know that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttonguy View Post
Could you please explain to me why you think the issue has to do with tags? The problem, from my point of view, is that the player and/or the computer is automatically altering content.
Uh yeah...I think I said that. "Hmmm...gues I should have asked what program you are using to sync files to the player. It may be making changes, in the background, that you were not expecting."

But, in case you didn't notice, your original post didn't give us ANY info to help us solve the problem.

Also, I think you have two problems. Clean tags would reduce the refresh time. Why it constantly wants to refresh without any changes is, of course, another problem. Make that 3 problems...missing files.

OK, I just went and found my Clip Zip that was updated over the weekend (added Xmas music) and refreshed, but not used since. I plugged it in, did nothing except type this response, and it refreshed when it was unplugged. I did it two more times and it didn't refresh either time.

Sorry, but I do not have an answer. It appears that random refreshes happen. Since I pretty much only plug into a PC when planning changes, plus clean tags, and not very full, the refresh time doesn't bother me.

Steve
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  #11  
Old 12-05-2012, 12:02 PM
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I haven't changed anything on mine and it still takes time. I've read where some don't but to be honest I really don't care as the only true answer is that its inferior firmware compared to others on the market. My cowon's or other players have never done db refresh for this amount of time.

Edit: ok, I've tried several other times and on the 3rd boot to the OF it boots in around 8 seconds, +/- 2 ... sorry I must have changed something and not remembered ... although I still stand behind the inferior fw comment for various reasons ...
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Last edited by WalkGood; 12-05-2012 at 12:11 PM.
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  #12  
Old 12-05-2012, 11:55 PM
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The database refresh happens if any information on a sandisk player occurs. That change in information doesn't doesn't need to be an alteration to a file done by the user. If any of the processes associated with Windows Media Player read the files that may be enough to trigger the database refresh.

I've seen as many as 7 different WMP related processes that might address the player depending on which mode it's in and if there's any DRM content on the player. Trying to identify which of those processes will be called and killing them once a player is connected turned out to be impossible for me. There seem to be a number of variables that dictate which process will be called at connection.

When I thought I had killed them all WMP reactivated some of them when the PC was rebootedbooted. The database refreshes started again once those reactivated processes read the player.

The sandisk database refresh can drain significant amounts of battery, especially if there's embedded album art involved. I've seen a Clip Zip that was at 100% charge finish at 66% after a database refresh that took over 1 hr. 15 mins. That 1 hr. 15 min. database refresh occurred using the same set of files that refreshed in less than 7 minutes on a Clip+ and a original version V2 Fuze. The same tags that were clean enough for a relatively short database refresh on a Clip+ still took what I considered an unreasonable amount of time on a Clip Zip.

In exploring why it took so long I discovered that embedded AA is sometimes extracted to hidden system files. They're .jpg files extracted from the embedded album art. They're named "folder.alb.0.xxxx" and are the same size as whatever AA is embedded. If you change the extension to .jpg they display in a graphics viewer as the embedded art.

It seems that using the limited processing power of a portable player to extract and create those files takes a long time and uses up battery power at a much higher level than playing music. The screen is on during all the time of the database refresh and that would also cause significant loss of battery life.

One of the odd things is that one of the advantages that MTP transfer had in the past goes away on the Clip Zip. MTP has always been slower for me but that was usually made up by a much shorter database refresh. The overall time was usually a bit longer using MTP but the shorter database refresh time made it useful for some of the people I know that preferred the ease of making playlists on a MTP device.

On the Clip Zip MTP transfer has taken longer than MSC transfer but it hasn't shortened the database refresh when I've tried it. The same files that took 45 minutes to refresh using MSC still took 45 minutes using MTP.

One other thing, it may seems as if I'm saying all of this is locked in stone but I'm not. Any and all of this can change according to types of files used, size of files used, USB tranfer mode used, whether the files are dragged and dropped, if they are synced using software, which software is used to sync the files, the settings that software uses, encoding of the tags, operating system, version of operating system, version of WMP, if the files are synced to the internal or external memory and possibly even the phase of the moon.
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